Many new cars removed from sale over new design rules

[red750]

I know Nev will dispute this because I'm posting it, but here goes.

 

Suzuki stops sales over red tape

More than half the vehicles sold by this popular manufacturer will disappear from Aussie showrooms within weeks.

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/suzuki-stops-sales-over-red-tape/news-story/5dfbabefba1abee5a059ef0e19cc5220?utm_campaign=EditorialSB&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialBakers

[octave]

18 minutes ago, red750 said:

More than half the vehicles sold by this popular manufacturer will disappear from Aussie showrooms within weeks.

 

Sounds good to me 😃

 

 

 

Michael Pachota, Suzuki Australia general manager, said the brand is set to significantly change its model range over the next 12 months.

“We’re clearing the way for new technologies; Suzuki Australia’s hybrid and electric journey starts now,” he said.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Hope it happens to KIA too. Mine has unsafe, shockingly designed steering that the Vehicle Safety and Standards should have knocked back.

[facthunter]

NEW KIA all electric has just come out.   Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

They can have it, I'm sick of hearing the word "electric", that's what my power steering is on my Cerato, works when parking, but not on the open road.

[facthunter]

Get used to it. There's a lot of potential for it . Infernal combustion engines  with explosions inside will be a thing of the Past. Smelly. Noisy, complex, Temperamental, expensive,  inefficient and polluting.  THAT ERA has passed.  Maybe your Cerato needs checking  . Electric power steering is very common and safer than Hydraulic.  Nev

[facthunter]

With your car GON get onto it and check for any extended warrantee, with the best dealer you can find/ know of. There's plenty of instances of failures.  Nev

[onetrack]

Go to a steering specialist in Perth with your Cerato. The problem can either be a damaged steering rack, a worn steering shaft coupling, poor electrical connections or a weak battery, or a faulty power steering ECU.

The investigation should start with a complete physical inspection of all the steering components, including the electrical components and wiring, and a written report on what they found, and what needs repairing.

The earlier Ceratos are noted for developing a faulty steering shaft coupling which creates clunky noises and binding.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Can't go to Perth. My model Cerato was designed with steering that is high geared. At 60k/h and above, 2mm movement of thee steering wheel, and you're off the road into the scrub before you know it. It's also "tight" at that speed, I asked the mechanic at the Ford dealer where I bought the car, and he said: "It's tight like that, to keep the car in a straight line", and I was expected to swallow that.

 

The Cerato still had two years warrantee. Turns out that the standard tyres are too wide for the rack & pinion steering ratio at 60k/h and above, the centrifugal force of the wheels overwhelms the electric power steering - this is what I've worked out. My previous ride was a much older Corolla, it had no power steering at all, and it was 10 times better than the unsafe fraudulent Cerato. I've become very wary of ultra modern cars later than 2000. What would I get if I bought an all electric car, a car without bad faults?, probably not.

[facthunter]

KIA are aware of the problem. That's why I advised what I did.. The cost may be high IF you have to front it.. Some cars are not worth having once the Warrantee is out.. Not the useless dealer extended one either.. Your problem is one of safety not just your own either.. Continued driving of a car you KNOW is not safe puts you in a position I wouldn't accept.  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Continued driving of a car you KNOW is not safe puts you in a position I wouldn't accept.

I'll be upgrading to something larger and more expensive as soon as I repair the kangaroo damage on the driver's side rear door of the Cerato. Before buying my next car, I'll research steering ratios, I don't care much for Formula 1 direct steering. I want and need comfort when driving in my old age.

[onetrack]

What's wrong with the Model A Ford steering, do you want to trade it in for a Model T?  🤩

[old man emu]

Getting back to the original point of this thread, the dumb buggers at ANCAP have decreed that this anti-collision device has to be fitted to new cars. For what? To prevent rear-end collisions.

 

Think about the circumstances when rear-enders occur. It is usually soon after rain begins after a dry period. The accumulated muck on the  road surface get wet and slippery and drivers who are used to driving in a dry road that provides a higher degree of friction between tyres and the surface, drive in a similar way, but the degree of friction is much less and stopping distance increases. From what I understand, these "safety devices" will apply the brakes if a collision is imminent. That is most likely to induce a skid and the vehicle will slide into the one in front. I can't see the device preventing rearenders. However, these twits at ANCAP are inflicting added costs and complexity for the manufacturers and cost increases for the consumer. 

 

I wonder if these "experts" ever drive motor vehicles to work, or do they catch a bus.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

It's obviously all in the name of safety. It could work, and not be that expensive. Automatic brake application works for cruise control via computer signals, we already have it. Anti-crash would have to work via a radar device situated in the front of the vehicle. The computer would then calculate the amount of braking needed to avoid collision with the vehicle in front. The brake's ABS system takes care of any tendency to skid on wet roads.

[old man emu]

19 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

The computer would then calculate the amount of braking needed to avoid collision with the vehicle in front.

And there is the flaw in your flawless argument. The coefficient of friction between a tyre and a road surface is not consistent. By that I mean sections of road surface of the same construction can have different coefficients of friction due to the amount of other material on the surface such as dust, oils, water etc. The onboard computer of a car would not know what that coefficient would be at any instant, so it could not calculate a braking distance. 

[onetrack]

There are a substantial number of new cars on the market and on the road, that have automatic braking collision avoidance, it's called autonomous emergency braking (AEB). It's designed to stop a vehicle in time to prevent a rear-ender, if the driver is distracted.

The biggest source of rear-enders is on freeways, when high-speed traffic ahead suddenly stops for a variety of reasons, ranging from debris on the road to much slower drivers, or even just bad merging (people braking as they merge).

Drivers get lulled into the steady speed of the freeway and become distracted, and don't see the car in front stop or lose a serious amount of speed quickly, and a rear-ender results.

 

The manufacturers are at pains to point out that AEB does not work 100% under all conditions and it does not take the place of good driving skills. However, the problem is, with every single added item of "driver assist" technology, we ARE dumbing down drivers skills.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

"The coefficient of friction between a tyre and a road surface is not consistent."

 

You may have a valid point, but I guess there's numerous sensors feeding info into the computer. ABS was designed to provide maximum tyre grip throughout the braking procedure, and I think it was meant for water only plus excessive speed, and it will only work efficiently if the tyres are still reasonably soft ... they harden after about 5 years, and while their wear rate is exponentially slower after that, the hardness could affect ABS and anything else that's meant to act as an anti-skid device. Oil is a different kettle of fish, it depends, I suppose, on how much is on the road. Not much will save you if you apply the brakes in a patch of oil if it can't be avoided. It's best to keep the front wheels straight, and roll through it, rather than drive through it.

Edited February 6 by Grumpy Old Nasho

[old man emu]

GON, there's an old saying, 'a cobbler should stick to his last'. It warns against involving oneself in areas that one lacks knowledge or experience. 

 

8 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

ABS was designed to provide maximum tyre grip throughout the braking procedure

No it wasn't. It is designed to allow the braking system to slow the rotation of the wheel until the point of lockup, after which the tyre will slide on the surface. By allowing some rotation in the wheel. there is some tyre/surface friction remaining to allow the tyre to create a steering force, thus the vehicle can be steered, which is not possible if the tyres are sliding on the surface. 

 

The composition of tyres does affect the tyre/surface coefficient of friction. Harder compounds lead to lower coefficients. That's why the tyres used for racing are "softer" than regular passenger car tyres. Since ABS deals with brake application, the hardness of the tyres is not a factor in its effects.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

33 minutes ago, old man emu said:

By allowing some rotation in the wheel. there is some tyre/surface friction remaining to allow the tyre to create a steering force, thus the vehicle can be steered, which is not possible if the tyres are sliding on the surface. 

That's the same as what I said, only my explanation was shorter.

 

37 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Since ABS deals with brake application, the hardness of the tyres is not a factor in its effects.

Yes but when we talk about brake application, it goes hand in hand with the amount of grip the tyres have on the road. In any case, the manufacturers will be obliged to fit an anti-crash system and I reckon it's a good idea, and I don't see it as being all that expensive for the manufacturer. All the technology is available, I don't see a problem. However, I do agree it dumbs down drivers skills, as onetrack said.

[facthunter]

You'd be in deep$#!t with antiskid inop on a big jet.  Forget about dumbing down drivers.   Nev

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

only my explanation was shorter.

Short or long, it was wrong.

 

4 hours ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

we talk about brake application, it goes hand in hand with the amount of grip the tyres have on the road

Yes, no and maybe. We have to differentiate between the process of slowing the rotation of the wheel, and the effect of that slowing on the deceleration of the vehicle.

 

The function of an ABS system is to control the rotation of the wheel assembly in order to allow the tyre to develop an amount of sideways force which is the force that results in steering. If the wheel assemblies of a moving vehicle stop rotating, the tyres will slide on the surface. A sliding tyre cannot produce any steering force. In fact, if you are in brake lockup, it is possible to turn the steering wheel from left to right and back without causing the vehicle to change direction. An ABS system is designed to release the hydraulic pressure being applied to the brake cylinders before the pressure reaches a point where the rotation of the wheel stops. The system is also designed to return the pressure thereafter so that the critical point is reached. Then the cycle begins again. That is why, if you stand on the brake pedal and keep standing on it, you will feel a rapid shuddering of the pedal as the pressure changes up and down rapidly.

[facthunter]

It gives you more grip  than a locked wheel,  Whether you use that to turn or slow down is your choice .Aquaplaning gives no grip whatever You steer aerodynamically or with assymetric reverse thrust, IF you are game. The aim being to stay on the runway.  Nev

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

That's right, it provides you with a maximum tyre grip on the road while you are panic pressing the brake pedal. It eliminates the "panic" of uneducated drivers. I did the advanced driving course with Peter Wherret as the instructor, before ABS came in, and we did braking maneuvers (simulating what an ABS system does today) ... "Keep pressing the brake pedal down ever more gently to ensure the wheels remain rotating, rather than hitting the pedal hard in one go and locking up the wheels." 

 

This taught us how to use the brakes properly before ABS was standard, I used it to good effect on a lot of occasions. If there was one course I did that was 100% beneficial, it was that one.

[spacesailor]

All the 'old' bus drivers in the UK had to do an advanced driving test , including the " skid " pan .

I tried but couldn't reverse those " double decker " buses into the reverse parking bay .kep't leaning into the overhead pen .

spacesailor

[pmccarthy]

The mind boggles.