Victorian by-elections

[Jerry_Atrick]

Actually, there was an AEC official allegedly trying to infuence the Werribee by election vote.. and surprise, it was to the Liberals... But, once the allegation was raised, the official was promptly dispatched (from the polling area - not from life on earth): https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/push-for-review-into-shambolic-werribee-byelection-count-20250209-p5lapb.html

 

 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

37 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

I assume when you say `we are too dumb and gullible to be aware of it', you are not including yourself among the deluded masses?

I'd be silly to, I can see the corruption, it's in naming and giving preference to the major parties, the "ALP" and the "Coalition", in what is supposed to be an independent, unbiased, and impartial government department website.

[rgmwa]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'd be silly to, I can see the corruption, it's in naming and giving preference to the major parties, the "ALP" and the "Coalition", in what is supposed to be an independent, unbiased, and impartial government department website.

The AEC does not give preferences. The voters do. It’s pretty simple. 

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

No, I know they don't, I said: "in naming and giving preference to the major parties, the "ALP" and the "Coalition", in what is supposed to be an independent, unbiased, and impartial government department website"

 

Let's call it: "favoritism" then.

[red750]

31 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

trying to infuence the Werribee by election vote.. and surprise, it was to the Liberals.

With such a large number of candidates and so close a race, there is bound to be a recount anyway.

 

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Let's call it: "favoritism" then.

What do you mean "favouritism"?

 

Let's say there are 100,000 electors in an electorate. 45,000  LNP supporters, 46,000 ALP. That's 91,000. The other 9,000 support minor parties. Should their votes be discarded because their first preference had no hope of getting in?  If 6,000 of them preferred LNP to Labor and 3,000 preferred Labor, given only two choices, most of the 100.000 preferred LNP. That's why our preferencial system is best.

[rgmwa]

Fair enough, but what do you mean by ‘giving preference’? They count the votes for all the individual candidates in the election so where does the preference come in?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

4 minutes ago, red750 said:

What do you mean "favouritism"?

I mean the AEC is favouring the two major parties in their website. The AEC is supposed to be unbiased and impartial, but there they are mentioning those two parties.

[rgmwa]

I’ve just had a look at their website. Maybe you can show me where all this favouritism is happening because I can’t find it.

[red750]

For God's sake, how are they meant to refer to them? Like those transgenger nuts, THEM and THEY?

 

You have seriuos issues. You need to see a doctor.

[Marty_d]

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

Here they are again, on the same webpage .. Why is the AEC placing such importance on them and mentioning their names?

It doesn't seem be unbiased and impartial to me. Do they own the ALP and the Coalition?

 

 

"A distribution of preferences takes place in every division and is used to calculate the two party preferred statistics for divisions that have ALP and Coalition as the final two candidates. In divisions that do not have the ALP and Coalition as the final two candidates, a Scrutiny for Information is conducted to determine the two party preferred result.

 

A scrutiny for Information in such cases is a notional distribution of preferences to find the results of preference flows to the ALP and Coalition candidates."

[rgmwa]

They are just gathering statistics, but why don’t you ask them? They have an on-line enquiry form. Let us know how you go. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

50 minutes ago, red750 said:

With such a large number of candidates and so close a race, there is bound to be a recount anyway.

The point was the AEC official was alleged to have been telling people to vote Libs before they cast their vote.. if he was suiccessful, a recount would have made no difference.

 

24 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

Here they are again, on the same webpage .. Why is the AEC placing such importance on them and mentioning their names?

It doesn't seem be unbiased and impartial to me. Do they own the ALP and the Coalition?

 

 

"A distribution of preferences takes place in every division and is used to calculate the two party preferred statistics for divisions that have ALP and Coalition as the final two candidates. In divisions that do not have the ALP and Coalition as the final two candidates, a Scrutiny for Information is conducted to determine the two party preferred result.

 

A scrutiny for Information in such cases is a notional distribution of preferences to find the results of preference flows to the ALP and Coalition candidates."

Goit a link? Would like to take a look

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

54 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Goit a link? Would like to take a look

https://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/counting.htm#difference

 

https://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/counting.htm#majority

 

Don't try and make out they are something they're not.

[Marty_d]

Don't get your knickers in a twist.  They mention it simply to illustrate who the major parties are.  If the Democrats were still around or the Green vote grew substantially I'm sure they'd change their FAQs.

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

They mention it simply to illustrate who the major parties are.

The AEC is supposed to be impartial and neutral. There's no valid reason why they should single out the ALP and the Coalition for special mention in the way that they have.

 

If I was to contact the AEC to complain, I know what they'd say - "Mind your own business Champ"

 

Impartiality and neutrality

 

"Impartiality and neutrality are the cornerstone of the AEC, which ensures the integrity of Australia’s democratic system. Impartiality and neutrality underpins our other regulatory principles, processes and practices, including administrative and legal activities in accordance with the Electoral Act and Referendum Act."

 

https://www.aec.gov.au/Parties_and_Representatives/our-regulatory-approach/#impartiality

[rgmwa]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

If I was to contact the AEC to complain, I know what they'd say - "Mind your own business Champ"

Their website says they are happy to respond to complaints so why not try it? Besides, aren’t you just looking for an explanation? That’s different to making a complaint.

[spacesailor]

why Can't  I make my ' preferences go to any- other minority party ! , ,other than the two I distrust  .

liberals , the 'greens or One Nation party .

If one third of voters preferences went to a minority party .

would  it still be counted as a minority Party ! . 

31% Coalition  , 29% Labor , 33.% The Green Party .

who is the minority party .

spacesailor

[red750]

You've had it explained to you but you don't seem to be able to grasp it. They are simply reporting facts, not showing favoritism. It would be the same if the two major parties were the sporting shooters party and the sidecar racing party. How are they supposed to refer to them, Party A and Party B?

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

I'd be happy with an explanation but I already know they are being partial, contrary to their stated regulatory impartiality.

 

The mere mention of the major parties by name in their FAQs influences readers and impresses on their minds that those named parties are perhaps more important than all the other parties. When the AEC accepts the registration of a party, any party, then that party should have equal importance to all the others in terms of AEC procedures and regulations under their banner of impartiality. The AEC gives no justifiable reason why they mentioned the ALP and the Coalition in their FAQs. It's not justifiable for the purpose of voters' preferences allocation, in the FAQs. The only place where it's justifiable to mention party names is in their final results records .. then all parties, independents, etc, get a mention, obviously. 

 

They'd have to be taken to court over it, sending feedback emails won't achieve anything. If anything was done, it would be done in secret, keeping it out of the Public's eye. That's happened to me before with the ATO, I asked a question about something on a tax return form. They never replied, but I noticed the next year that the bit on the form that I was questioning about, had disappeared, never to be seen again. They failed to extend to me the courtesy of letting me know I had a good point and they were going to fix it. 

 

 

[red750]

3 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

why Can't  I make my ' preferences go to any- other minority party !

You can make your preferences to any party, putting the two you don't trust as 11 and 12 if you like, But it comes down to who are the last two standing, and by popular or unpopukar vote, that just happens to be ALP and LNP.

 

Think about it like a football season. Every team gets to play, but at the end of the season, the top eight play off in the finals.  Each finals match, one team is eliminated, until the Grand Final, when the last two remaining teams play off. The beaten teams are eliminated don't get to play again.

 

Abd GON, could you imagine the commentators calling the match sayimg "Team A is leading by 15 points". No, tthey call the teams by their name. That's not showing preference, and has no impact on the outcome.

 

[red750]

11 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

I'd be happy with an explanation but I already know they are being partial, contrary to their stated regulatory impartiality.

Like I said, see a doctor and get a grip on reality. Other parties come and go at the will of the people. If they had sufficient support to draw level with, or surpass the other two, they would be mentioned too.

[red750]

14 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Nasho said:

that party should have equal importance

They would have equal importance if they mustered an equal number of votes. But they don't which is why they are called "Minor Parties."

[Grumpy Old Nasho]

So the AEC is not impartial after all, that's the point I'm making. Our brainwashed minds categorize parties into "major" and "minor". Enough said.

[red750]

Are you playing silly buggers or are you really that thick?