Chump's Consequences

[Jerry_Atrick]

Rather than groups this into the what has Chump done now thread, I thought it would be pertinent to create a thread of what others are doing in response to President Chump. I am not talking about direct responses, such as the EU and Canada putting up its tariffs in response to el Chumpo, but more far reaching consequences. And, this is the first one:

 

I actually think this is as an advantage, however, like almost all things humanity, we either don't foresee issues, or we are too lazy to act on them until they are in our face.

 

Not, two months in, Portugal has decided not to go with its decision to purchase F-35s on the basis that the US can no longer be seen to be dependable, and the real risk they may curtail a country being able to use US built equipment to defend itself. Canada may well follow suit. especially given SAAB's offer for full technology transfer to and manufacturing in Canada.

 

Marles has come out recently as saying the US us a dependable ally, but is Australia really not reviewing its AUKUS contract and thinking, maybe there is a more reliable partner out there?

 

The geopolitical sands are shifting very quickly... strap yourselves in, its going to be a hell of a ride.

[red750]

I put my head in the noose by making very derogatory responses to some FB posts by MAGA lunatics, and keep getting the reply "We ar keeping you safe from the Chinese. If we withdraw our forces and abandon our bases, you would be overrun in no time." Only not quite so politely. They think they are doing us a huge favour.

[onetrack]

There's nothing quite like American arrogance. Australia doesn't rate too highly for invasion, as the Chinese already own everything they want here, anyway.

 

But Taiwan has the worlds most technologically-advanced computer-chip manufacturing, and 5 of the worlds leading, cutting-edge, computer-chip factories.

 

That's what the Chinese REALLY want - and the Americans will stop them from getting it. So on that basis, Australia is only useful as a base for operations, same as WW2.

[old man emu]

I heard on the ABC (Australia) news this morning that there are strong calls from Labor rank and file members to withdraw from AUKUS, for much the same reasons as Portugal is backing out of its arms deal. 

 

I have just finished reading a book giving a potted history of Australia's submarine service, which has been closely aligned to the Royal Navy. Dealing with WWII, the author tells that when the Royal Navy was able to send a fleet to the Pacific after the fall of Germany, the US Navy didn't want anything to do with it. The RN brought midget submarines with it, which often had Australian crewmembers. The Yanks wanted no part of them, until they were presented with a plan for the subs to cut the undersea telephone cables the Japanese were using to avoid interception of radio traffic. 

 

If you look at the history of the war against Japan, you will find that the Yanks paid little attention to the defence of Australia, or cooperation with any other Nation having interests in the area.

[nomadpete]

It would be better to ditch AUKUS.

Our political reputation was tarnished when Aukus happened. The world saw AUKUS as a dubious about face by Australians.

 

And to suck up to USA when their political motives are so clearly NOT aligned with global cohesion, is just silly.

 

Historically America has pretty consistently shown itself to be 'America first, last and always'.

 

Their posturing as being the unofficial policemen of the world, has always been a sham. Few countries would wish to be 'saved' by America.

[red750]

Terror group shares sick cryptic video after Trump vowed to unleash hell on them

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3394313/Terror-group-shares-sick-cryptic-video-Trumps-vow.html

[red750]

Malcolm Turnbull wasted no words decrying the AUKUS deal. Says wwe will probably get none of the submarines. The agreement requires that the USN gets all theirs before we get any, and delivery is way behind schedule. He said Trump would love this agreement - "What idiots would agree to this?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Scotty  from Marketing set this up and HOW (until NOW) could we get out of it? . Scott and his missus spent NYE a Mar A Leggo. . A DUD deal if ever there was One.  Trump will NEVER share a sub with AUS . Get the dough back if you can. HA HA fat chance of that SUCKERS.  Nev

[nomadpete]

At the moment, we have a great reason to quit the deal.  If we bail out now, the rest of the world will cheer us on.

 

I hope somebody shows the initiative to act now.

[facthunter]

Wait a little while. nev

[old man emu]

The questions that should be asked when purchasing military goods is, what do we want the item to do? In the case of a submarine, the task is locate, track and destroy if necessary. Does the submarine really have to be nuclear powered?

 

The way I see it, we are buying advanced detection and attack systems which the Yanks want to pack into a boat with a certain type of power generation system. Nuclear subs have very much greater operating ranges than diesel electric, but while operating under electric power, the D/E is much quieter and hence more difficult to detect by listening equipment. The only drawback is that the batteries go flat, forcing the sub to rise close to the surface to allow its diesel engines to recharge them. During recharging, the operation of the diesel engine makes noise.

 

Do we need subs that can range far from our shores, or simply ones that can operate along the boundaries of our territorial waters.

 

[facthunter]

The general consensus is, Yes you do need Nuclear Powered SUBS. Will WE ever see one that is Ours? That is the question. I would consider TRUMP cannot be TRUSTED. as he behaves currently and with those around him Unlikely to change, and just get More Bellicose. . Nev

Edited March 17 by facthunter

[Marty_d]

I still don't understand why you need manned subs when you can have unmanned drones.

Without having to support human life they can be smaller, faster, quieter, cheaper, and just as deadly.

But yes we'll never see a US sub. Dopey deal by a dropkick.

[rgmwa]

Wasn't the French sub a nuclear design that we asked them to change to DE at great expense? I can see the sense in having long range nuclear subs but spending all that money on the AUKUS deal with all the risks of non-delivery and unpredictable future warfare needs seems like a bad risk. We should just go back cap in hand and buy the French nuclear subs.  We would probably be up and running much faster. 

[old man emu]

European nations are actively involved in submarine production, with key players like Germany, France, Sweden, and the UK building both conventional and nuclear-powered submarines, with some focusing on export markets. 

 

At least if we bought from Europe, the nuts and bolts holding things together would be Metric.

[onetrack]

Whoa!! - Metric?? That rotten simplified measurement system invented by the FRENCH?? It can't be any good, because it wasn't invented in America!

[facthunter]

Trump SAYS America doesn't HAVE many Genius's. IF he has his way no-one will be educated either. Nev

[Marty_d]

 

Good opinion piece on how America is viewed now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/19/the-impact-of-trump-20-on-australia-is-evidence-of-how-american-we-suddenly-arent

 

And another!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/18/donald-trump-president-america-great-nation-builder

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by Marty_d

[onetrack]

Re the U.S. Subs - we urgently need to re-assess this dreadful purchase. It's a mind-boggling cost, with no guarantee they'll be delivered - ever - and trying to equip submarines with crews is a costly and difficult task.

 

But we have the modern answer to subs - and it blows U.S. Nuclear subs out of the water, so to speak. And the answer is an Australian invention! - the Ghost Shark autonomous submarine! This thing has a massive depth ability increase over regular subs, and no need to risk any crew lives to operate it!

 

Regular subs will become obsolete in the near future, exactly as tanks have become obsolete, due to the massive advances in drones and guided munitions.

 

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/australias-silent-predator-ghost-shark-xl-uuv-a-game-changer/

[facthunter]

EVEN Musk Knows that.  Get out of it ( AUKUS )while you MAY retrieve some of the Money.  WE can't COUNT on Getting ANYTHING from TRUMP. Nev

[Marty_d]

https://greens.org.au/campaigns/get-out-aukus

 

[rgmwa]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

Regular subs will become obsolete in the near future, exactly as tanks have become obsolete, due to the massive advances in drones and guided munitions.

That's why locking into a decades long, hugely expensive contract apparently based on the assumption that there won't be any significant changes in undersea warfare technology or geopolitical alliances is so shortsighted.  If we want manned replacements for the Collins Class submarines there are more cost-effective options that could be delivered sooner.

[red750]

COMMENT by AMBROSE  EVANS-PRITCHARD.  SMH, 20 March 2025.

 

Donald Trump has inflicted enormous long-term damage on America’s defence export industry, a lucrative earner worth $US320 billion ($500 billion) a year in all its forms. Foreign defence sales are 10 times greater than US exports of liquefied natural gas.

First in line for collective repudiation is Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet. Mark Carney ordered a review of Canada’s order for 72 of these advanced aircraft within hours of becoming prime minister. It will determine whether ‘‘other options could better meet Canada’s needs’’.

 

Nuno Melo, Portugal’s conservative defence minister, says the F-35 is no longer considered a safe choice to replace his country’s ageing F-16s. ‘‘We have to know that an ally will be on our side whatever the circumstances,’’ he told Publico.

‘‘The world has changed. This ally of ours, so predictable over the decades, could limit the use, maintenance, components, and everything needed to ensure that the aircraft are operational in all scenarios,’’ he said. Portugal is looking at a European alternative. Germany may be next.

 

‘‘Nobody needs to buy an F-35,’’ said Tom Enders, ex-Airbus chief and now head of the German Council on Foreign Relations. He said Germany’s contract for these fighters was a misguided attempt by Angela Merkel to ‘‘appease’’ Trump during his first term. It should be cancelled forthwith.

 

Europe does not strictly need the US Patriot missile defence system either. The upgraded Franco-Italian SAMP/T rival is more or less ‘‘equivalent’’.

 

‘‘It is absolutely imperative that we free ourselves of dependence on US systems as far and as quickly as possible. We can’t simply close our eyes to the fact that this American government has become an adversary,’’ Enders said in an explosive interview with the Frankfurter Allgemeine.

 

He said Trump was likely to blackmail and coerce Europe in much the same way as he has coerced Ukraine. ‘‘No one believes any more that he will stand by Article 5 if Putin invades the Suwa›ki Gap,’’ he said.

 

One should be cautious of reading too much into share price movements. But it is striking that Lockheed Martin’s stock has dropped 23 per cent since late October, while Dassault Aviation has almost doubled in dollar terms on talk of more orders for the Rafale fighter aircraft. French missile maker Thales is up 90 per cent.

 

The European defence sector has seen an explosive rise over the last month, pushed even higher by Germany’s coalition deal for €1 trillion ($1.7 trillion) of rearmament and infrastructure – to be ratified this week by a constitutional amendment to the debt brake.

Enders, a no-nonsense parachute officer and former head of European defence group EADS said the US has access to the operating system of F-35s. ‘‘We know the Americans can shut the thing down whenever they want. We are totally dependent,’’ he said.

 

Experts disagree over what the Pentagon can or cannot do remotely to paralyse an F-35.

 

‘‘There is no explicit kill switch. It’s not something that can be turned off on any given day,’’ said Justin Bronk, an aviation specialist at the Royal United Services Institute. But the fact that this discussion is even going on in the highest circles of European defence and foreign policy exposes the complete collapse of confidence in the US military alliance. In my view, it is irreversible.

Enders has just launched Germany’s ‘‘Sparta’’ project, drafted by leading figures calling for immediate and massive German rearmament. It clearly has the backing of incoming chancellor Friedrich Merz.

 

Rather than trying to catch up with Russia in tanks and aircraft, Germany and Europe should together seek ‘‘asymmetric superiority’’ by building a drone wall on NATO’s eastern flank, according to Enders. This could be done very quickly and at a fraction of the cost. ‘‘We need tens of thousands of smart robots on the battlefield,’’ he said.

 

A few dozen people can make 1000 combat drones for less than it costs to make a Leopard 2 tank shell. ‘‘These drones can knock out enemy systems that cost several million with great precision,’’ he said.

 

Europe should also move fast to escape the clutches of Elon Musk’s Starlink. Enders said Eutelsat’s OneWeb could do much of the job if buttressed by the medium-orbit satellites of SES.

 

The focus should be on the ‘‘sharp end’’ of defence. Some of the weapons should be in the field in six to 12 months, but none beyond five years. ‘‘We’re not interested in a new arms system that takes 20 years,’’ he said.

 

Sparta includes a dash for ‘‘cloud-combat’’ hypersonic weapons, a European missile shield, as well as a joint nuclear deterrent in co-ordination with France and the UK that span the escalation ladder from tactical nukes to strategic missiles.

 

There have always been restrictions on how US weapon exports can be deployed, but the rules were clear. Trump has turned every form of vulnerability into a means of extortion.

 

He has shown that he will not hesitate to cut rough with military kit to get his way – in Ukraine’s case to force capitulation on Kremlin terms – or ‘‘dividing up certain assets’’ as he put it.

 

Those terms will probably be close to the Istanbul Protocol: neutrality, a skeleton military like Germany in the 1920s, Russian control over four annexed (but unconquered) oblasts, cultural re-Russification of Ukraine, plus a Vidkun Quisling-like figure to replace Volodymyr Zelensky.

 

Europe faces serious dangers trying to extricate itself from US dependency.

 

‘‘If European politicians provoke Trump, we could get into an even more precarious position, setting off a vicious cycle,’’ said one expert from a NATO state helping the Ukrainian military. But it cannot go on as before either.

 

‘‘The US has complete lockdown and ownership of our security architecture. Long-range fires and potentially the Patriot missiles and some intelligence systems could stop working if somebody in Florida or Washington presses ‘‘no’’ on a computer. You couldn’t keep the show on the road,’’ he said.

 

The Stockholm Institute says the US cornered 43 per cent of global weapons exports over the past five years. This cannot last. Japan, India, Latin America, and the Middle East will all be wary of locking into complex defence systems that could be used as leverage by the White House at any time and for any purpose.

 

It is no protection if suppliers are private companies: Trump compels corporate leaders to kiss the ring and execute his agenda. He is proactively imposing his ideology on capitalist America. Even the Washington Post has bowed to pressure, refusing to publish views that flout MAGA nostrums.

 

Two of the irresistible selling points of US arms exporters have long been that a) the dependency would not be abused and b) countries were implicitly coming under the US security umbrella by aligning their fortunes with America. Neither has currency in Trump’s Hobbesian world.

 

The Telegraph, London

 

[facthunter]

USA shoots itself in the foot in rapid time. When there's NO TRUST there's NOTHING, Donald. (the DOPE) . TRUST cannot be demanded, or Bought. It has to be earned. You've LOST it in 2 months,  Buddy. 

[onetrack]

Poland, at the forefront of Russian expansion dreams, has just ramped up its military spending to 4.3% of GDP. They are leading the EU nations into self re-armament, now rapidly concluding that relying on America for military support and hardware, as they have done in the past, is no longer a viable option. 

 

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/07/poland-could-be-europes-rising-star-defence-and-security

 

Edited Thursday at 04:07 AM by onetrack