Chump's Consequences

[octave]

Why is globalisation perceived as being bad?

[facthunter]

If Trump does any good it will be by accident. He doesn't care about much but himself  Nev

[facthunter]

Anyhow watch it in real time. We will all pay, one way or another. . Investing in America Once seemed like a good idea.  Nev

[rgmwa]

4 hours ago, octave said:

Why is globalisation perceived as being bad?

I looked it up. The main reason is that globalization exacerbates income inequality, both within and between countries, as wealth tends to concentrate in the hands of a few.  Industries and jobs move to countries with lower labour costs leading to job losses and economic hardship in more developed countries, and potential exploitation of workers and resources in developing countries by multinational corporations. In other words, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. America is a pretty good example of income disparity in a wealthy country and loss of manufacturing jobs. However, their export of services exceeds the value of the disparity in goods that Trump is solely focused on with his tariffs. He's only looking at the numbers that suit his narrative of the US as an exploited and failed nation.

[Marty_d]

It wasn't a failed nation before, but it's going that way fast.

[octave]

20 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

I looked it up. The main reason is that globalization exacerbates income inequality, both within and between countries, as wealth tends to concentrate in the hands of a few.  Industries and jobs move to countries with lower labour costs leading to job losses and economic hardship in more developed countries, and potential exploitation of workers and resources in developing countries by multinational corporations. In other words, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. America is a pretty good example of income disparity in a wealthy country and loss of manufacturing jobs. However, their export of services exceeds the value of the disparity in goods that Trump is solely focused on with his tariffs. He's only looking at the numbers that suit his narrative of the US as an exploited and failed nation.

I think there are obviously pros and cons.  We have all come to expect that a car won't cost many years wages to buy. I recall when I was young my family saving up for a considerable time to buy a new television.  I do think a lot of people complain about things being made overseas where labour is cheaper but will also whinge prices going up.   We want our products to be sold overseas but tend to complain when tools or electronics are made in China 

[rgmwa]

I think the main concerns most people have about globalisation is the quality of the imported goods and the potential exploitation of the people making them. There are plenty of reports on programs like 4 Corners about how workers in many developing countries are used almost as slave labour, working very long hours for pittance wages and often for big Western corporations either directly or through local companies.

But it's a two-edged sword, because if it wasn't for the work the country would not be able to develop, however exploitative and corrupt its progress might be. Japan and South Korea have been very successful over time. Other places like Vietnam probably have a long way to go, but have benefitted significantly from Trumps first round of tariffs on China, when factories moved there to dodge the tariffs.

[octave]

I think there should certainly be rules about dangerous good or goods produced with slave  labour or poor worker conditions.  When it comes to quality I don't always need a top quality product. I renovated my bathroom and bought a budget tile saw for around $100. Sure although it did the job well it certainly wouldn't suit a tradie.  I appreciate not having to pay many hundreds of dollars.

I think the fact is that the world is only getting more connected and I think this is a good thing 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, rgmwa said:

ther places like Vietnam probably have a long way to go, but have benefitted significantly from Trumps first round of tariffs on China, when factories moved there to dodge the tariffs.

The penny drops! So that's why Trump whacked 47% tariff on Vietnam. He's actually going after the Chinese. Initially I thought it was revenge for the Vietnamese beating them in a war.

[rgmwa]

No. They have just been a victim of their own success at shipping lots of stuff to the US and not buying much in return. Check out Trump’s nonsensical tariff calculations which have nothing to do with reciprocal tariffs as he claims. 

[old man emu]

I had a fish filet for dinner tonight. It came from Vietnam. A lot of our frozen or canned food comes from there or other 'developing' Asian countries. 

[onetrack]

I see no need to import rubbishy quality farmed fish from Vietnam, when we're surrounded by a couple of the worlds biggest oceans and few smaller ones.

The Vietnamese fish farms are in boats sitting in the Mekong River, and the Mekong River is one of the most polluted rivers in the world, with 400 major factories all discharging their industrial waste into the Mekong with very little official checks, and certainly no waste treatment. I'm happy to pay a lot more for locally-caught fish, and even Australian farmed fish are better than any imported fish.

[rgmwa]

I saw a few prawn ponds in China that didn't give me a lot of confidence in the product. 

[rgmwa]

Good old Bernie Sanders telling it how is is with a glimmer of optimism for the mid-terms:

 

 

Bernie for President! At least he's a decent person, unlike the destructive clown in the White House.

[rgmwa]

Some interesting observations on Trump's tariffs and the future of America by Professor Richard Wolff:

 

 

 

[nomadpete]

13 hours ago, octave said:

I think there should certainly be rules about dangerous good or goods produced with slave  labour or poor worker conditions.

Great in theory.

But if those same cheap workers are given all the workplace safety we expect, the job security we expect, training, worl/life balance, etc, etc.

Then they will cost the multinational exploiters as much in overheads as we have for workers  here. And no longer be 'competetive'.

And your cheap tile saw will cost much much more.

 

[octave]

Australia makes a good over the horizon radar that Canada wants to buy. We are also good at making wine that people seem to want to buy. I can only see this as a good thing. Protectionism comes at a cost, sometimes the cost may be worth it and often not. The car industry was kept afloat by the tax payers.

The world is more interconnected than ever and I believe this is a good thing.  It is much harder to imagine a world war given the economic dependence between countries and people.

 

[nomadpete]

10 minutes ago, octave said:

Protectionism comes at a cost,

I agree. The whole tariff thing messes up everything - especially when players are changing the trading rules like is currently happening

 

[onetrack]

Trump is chaos personified. His actions are erratic, his decisions follow no order, and they're reversed in split seconds - and he loves operating like that, he believes keeping his opposition "off-balance" is a superb way to operate.

But his deranged actions with no real plan, are actions that are almost certainly leading America into a major recession. But Trump will never acknowledge he's responsible for that recession, he will conveniently find a scapegoat or reason to pin the blame on, when a recession hits the U.S.

 

He's destroying the American armaments industry by making other countries ramp up their armaments manufacturing, and armaments manufacturing is the backbone of American wealth and economic activity, and I'm amazed that leaders of the American military-industrial complex aren't rounding on Trump already.

[rgmwa]

When things really go pear shaped Trump will always try to blame others but apart from the ignorant diehards left in his MAGA cohort the rest of America will blame him. Of course, it will be too late and the damage will have been done. 

[facthunter]

Cock of the Walk one week and a Feather Duster the Next.? Make it soon or it will be too late.. Calamity moves fast. Nev 

[old man emu]

29 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Make it soon or it will be too late.

But who is there to replace him? Vance would be worse than a puppet. He's be an automaton, programmed to do the bidding of those behind Project 2025. I don't think that the US constitution allows for the removal of the Executive Branch and its replacement following an election. I think we are stuck with the Republicans until January 2029. I can't see the Democrats leading a storming of the Bastille.

[rgmwa]

I don’t think Vance would be able to win an election after four years of Trump. MAGA only has one leader. If something happened to Trump then Vance would get the top job but he doesn’t have Trump’s hold over the GOP and MAGA so he probably wouldn’t be very effective. It wouldn’t matter much anyway because Trump has already set the US on path to self destruction with the rest of the world forging new alliances for better or for worse. The Democrats may get the Senate or House back at the midterms but they won’t be able to do much before the next election and nobody knows what the results of that might be.

[old man emu]

Yep. The next four years are going to make the five years of WWII look like a holiday on a tropical island. Even if the Democrats get back in in 2029, it will take years to repair the political and economic damage of the Trump years.

 

Anyone know what Nostradamus foretold of these times?

[facthunter]

IF someone can predict the future then It's ALL planned and I don't BUY that for one moment.  Nev