European Union "Divorce" case coming soon,. . .

[dutchroll]

I want the established order to be given a big kick up the b*m, and the Hanson lot seem to be my only chance to do this.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

A dog that scares many rabbits, kills none..........

 

 

[storchy neil]

if them there rabbits don't like me dog then pppppis of next door and he can feed em neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

I reckon we have a right to be angry at the failure of the established parties to deliver decent outcomes.Here's a quick list:

 

1. Obscene salaries and perks for public "servants" including council ceo's.

 

2. insane levels of immigration

 

3.insane levels of expenditure on useless military hardware.

 

4. neglect of aborigines and jobless and schoolkids by ridiculous political correctness.

 

I want the established order to be given a big kick up the b*m, and the Hanson lot seem to be my only chance to do this.

The saying "cutting off your nose to spite your face" springs to mind.

 

If you give the existing pollies the boot and replace them with ideological demagogues, you end up worse than before.

 

Just to pick up a couple on your list - salaries for politicians are controlled by the remuneration tribunal. Pauline wouldn't change that. Not to mention that federal politicians have absolutely no influence on state or council employees.

 

In terms of perks for pollies, given public feeling even Turnbull has decided to cut the gold travel pass, which is a good start.

 

If you're talking about public servants, then you should be aware that the existing government has tried to cut conditions in most agencies by offering sub-standard enterprise agreements, which have been rejected multiple times by staff in many agencies. The public service does more for less money year on year, and the old popular idea of public servants sitting around on vast salaries doing bugger-all is well and truly 20 years out of date, if it ever was true. Just ask your local Centrelink or DVA staff member what their workload is like and whether they've had a pay rise in years.

 

As for military hardware, I agree with you there, but let's look at what happened in the US. People voted in Trump because he was promising to pull the US back from foreign conflicts and make their allies "pay their fair share". What does he do when in power? RAISE spending on military hardware by $70 billion.

 

 

[Bruce]

Yes I know you are right Marty, but just to pick on a few of your points... Who selected the father christmas man on the remuneration tribunal? Who can sack him? How much does he get paid? Does he also set ordinary people's benefits?

 

On excessive public salaries...

 

Opposite my house here in Adelaide is the reserve I fly electric models. The dog loves this activity. Right now it is unusable with knee-high weeds. The council chooses to pay a ceo 360,000 a year instead of about 5 mowing blokes for the same money.

 

If the ceo was worth half his money, he would have used his superhuman intellect to figure out how to keep the weeds down and lower the rates too.

 

It is the cult of managerialism that makes me grumpy, not the wages of ordinary workers.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

There seems to be an abundance of people that don't think there is equality in Korea (North or South).Social inequality worsening in South Korea - World Socialist Web Site

 

North Korea's 3-Tiered Society

 

Asia Times Online :: North Korea's wealth gap

 

North Korea’s Rich-Poor Divide

 

Income inequality in South Korea the most severe in Asia

 

The Growing Inequality in South Korea | Economy Watch

 

Gender inequality in South Korea - Wikipedia

good research, remember that no capitalist newspaper is ever going to promote communism honestly. Given that North Korea is such a tiny country, its amazing triumph of communism that they can build a nuclear weapon after being thoroughly destroyed in 1953.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Back to the topic - @octave's post way back on P33 (apols - just catching up), is a good one in that it points out there are benefits and costs to any sort of international relationship. The problem perceived by the popular press was that the EU is undemocratic and overstepped its mark in wanting to become a USoE, as well as the perennial migration debate. I could give some reasons why it is more democratic than the UK - at least in theory.

 

I have only lived in the UK while It has been in the EU and I have noticed some very good things come from it (why a population would want to vote its basic human rights away, I am not entirely certain), but the problem is the average person doesn't see everything, but can be wholly affected. The first thing is the mass of migration form the eastern European countries of trades people who massively impacted the local building industry. Suddenly, those wanting to do building work had a choice of quality tradespeople wanting to do a good job, but at cut rate prices - and sending a lot of the money back to their homeland. While this benefitted those householders and building companies, it put a massive strain on existing tradespeople and their families. The popular press picks up on this and spreads the evil that is the EU. There are probably other examples as well, but without addressing legitimate concerns of many ordinary people adversely affected, a lot of angst built up.

 

There are other examples - while Euratom is undoubtedly a good thing, EASA, for GA, was a complete shambles; the outdated Common Agricultural Policy penalised farmers for investing in better techniques. However, for the UK, there has been some good for GA - VFR night flying is now allowed and the CAA restriction on airports having PAL has been lifted (although there have been few, if any, takers because of planning restrictions on airfields - so a hollow victory). And the environmental and animal welfare provisions of the EU are generally seen by many form within the industry as a positive thing that probably would not have occurred in a UK self-governing society - for some time, anyway.

 

The point is, there is good and bad, but the people decided that it had had its day and there is time for a change. Sometimes money and the economy is less important than things like sovereignty, migration, etc. The remainers here like to argue that people didn't know what they were voting for with Brexit - I like to disagree; they may have been motivated by different things - but they were clearly warned by the remainers of the potential costs - it was the onl thing they could do with some semblance of competence. Enlisting the likes of Junkers and Obama to threaten destitude on the UK should they leave just galvanised them.

 

To @Phil Perry's point about the actor getting up and making a political speech at the end of the play - I personally agree he shouldn't have. I absolutely agree with free speech and the right to it... but I can't accept that someone has that right to impose their rhetoric or ideas in a private forum where the punters have paid for entertainment of a different kind. He can leave the theatre and petition people as they leave - absolutely his right. But in theatre, he was attempting to exploit a ready made audience who had no intention , for the period of time in the theatre, engage in any political debate.I would personally have been mightily peeved, esp having paid those prices, to have someone moan on regardless of whether I agreed or disagreed with his opinion. As an aside, for some reason, especially in the older theatres in London, I like to hang around, or be one of the last to leave, to soak up the atmosphere of the place and the night - I have paid my £60+ to do so. I don't want it ruined by someone looking to pedal their beliefs, whatever they are.

 

On the press, it is all #fakenews, more or less. The Breitbart (or whatever it is called) ran a show about the migration impact in Sweden , implying a massive (almost 3-fold) increase in the reported rapes in the country the year Sweden accepted some 650k refugees. What they didn't say was that that number had actually shot up a couple of years earlier due to changes in the law that reclassified various forms of sexual assault into the formal classification of rape, and that in the year that Sweden took the refugees, the number of reported cases had actually dropped compared to the previous year. So adding 650K of refugees significantly brought down the per-capita occurrence of reported rapes.

 

On the other hand, I had an ex-Marine officer working for me for a bit. He led troops in Afghanistan (more than one tour) and remarked virtually everything the BBC correspondents reported was not accurate at all, and they would take incidents out of context to dramatise or tone down the true events.

 

On the far-right politics that is growing in popularity - most of their attraction is in the protest vote - current people aren't listening and they are offering superficial solutions to complex problems - but are they the only ones doing so? How does the introduction of the citizenship test solve any of the problems of integration, numbers and other perceived issues people have with immigration?

 

Of course, the problem with the protest vote is you may not think that what you vote for will happen, but some stooped labour polly here was calling for a re-run of the referendum as she lodged a protest vote for Brexit thinking it would have failed and all she wanted to do was send the EU a message of the need for reform. Well, she got what she voted for and hopefully her electorate will, upon realising how stooped she is (whether or not they agree with her actual cast vote), vote her out.

 

Remember - voting for public office is not about voting for the most competent - it's about voting for the least incompetent.

 

 

[M61A1]

good research, remember that no capitalist newspaper is ever going to promote communism honestly. Given that North Korea is such a tiny country, its amazing triumph of communism that they can build a nuclear weapon after being thoroughly destroyed in 1953.

Yeah, and all socialist media is honest........

 

 

[Bruce]

Well Jerry, I reckon the citizenship test should do some good. At least it should help to avoid giving citizenship to the wrong people. There is a new question in the Australian one about whether your spouse is enrolled in English lessons.

 

Personally, I would have a contract in which the applicant had to agree to lots of conditions before being granted provisional citizenship , which could be withdrawn in the event of a serious breach. Prohibiting the mutilation of girls would be the sort of thing in the contract.

 

Remember these people are here seeking (they say) to save their lives as they were about to be killed in their own countries.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I agree that citizenship shouldn't be unconditional. Immigrants should be required to undertake lessons to obtain a basic grasp of the local language; they should be given a basic education of the laws and culture of the land (like Fosters is only for the tourists) and how they trump the laws from where they come from and crazy religious laws. Like here, any serious offence should have the option to revoke citizenship gained through naturalisation - and that includes incitement to commit serious crimes (such as Abu Hamza and inciting terrorism, from memory). On the flip side, immigrants should be encouraged to live and share their culture - this is what makes embracing countries a rich tapestry.. Is it Bridge St in Richmond where there are fantastic Vietnamese restaurants; Lygon street of many years ago had wonderful Italian restaurants; Lonsdale St had great Greek restaurants; Sydney Road and Turkish restaurants, I still recall having the best Peking Duck I have ever had in Chinatown and of course there are some fantastic Lebanese and Persian restaurants about.

 

Also, the different lifestyles, religions (if one wants to sample them) are all there to see and provide everything from the solemn to the musical experience. I have been to Greek, Italian, Muslim, Indian, Russian and Jewish weddings and each are a fantastic array of sights, smells, laughter and fun (though can cost a bit in crockery). Although, I do blame them for my widening girth... There is the argument that some religions - particularly Islam - incite violence - there may be some element of truth to extreme outliers, in the same way there are still organisations using the thin veil of christianity to perpetrate violence, most notably KKK, but apparently a few others: Christian terrorism - Wikipedia.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Yeah, and all socialist media is honest........

there is no socialist press, you're fighting a war against an invisible enemy

 

 

[Yenn]

This forum seems to be wandering around from the divorce case it started at.

 

I wonder if we coule get a divorce from the people who run Australia?

 

Just look at yesterdays news. A man is in court for beheading a doll at a mosque.That is supposedly racialism. I wonder what the definition of the Muslims who have beheaded non muslims and posted the videos is.

 

 

[Bruce]

YEnn, I didn't see the vid, but I reckon that beheading a doll is very nasty stuff and I would initially agree with the term radicalism.

 

But I would like a lot more details before being definite.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

What about reenactments of the crucifixion every Easter? Covering up pedophilic staff?

 

Sounds like we need a Royal Commission into the churches

 

 

[Marty_d]

Prohibiting the mutilation of girls would be the sort of thing in the contract.

While FGM is a horrific cultural practice that should be wiped out, I don't think the incidence would be very high in Australia. And it is a cultural thing rather than religious, with various sub-groups from various places in Africa and the Middle East doing it.

 

Meanwhile in Ireland... they just found 800 bodies of kids from baby to 3 years old in the sewer of a catholic institution for single mothers. Some figures suggest that the death rate of babies of single mothers was up to 5 times higher than that of a married couple, because of the actions of the catholic church.

 

Maybe we need a royal commission into whether christianity is just a religion...

 

 

[spacesailor]

Christianity is very Big business.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[M61A1]

maybe some amusement.....

 

Pauline Hanson ‘unsure’ about letting Ivan Milat run as One Nation state candidate – The Betoota Advocate

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

While FGM is a horrific cultural practice that should be wiped out, I don't think the incidence would be very high in Australia. And it is a cultural thing rather than religious, with various sub-groups from various places in Africa and the Middle East doing it.Meanwhile in Ireland... they just found 800 bodies of kids from baby to 3 years old in the sewer of a catholic institution for single mothers. Some figures suggest that the death rate of babies of single mothers was up to 5 times higher than that of a married couple, because of the actions of the catholic church.

 

Maybe we need a royal commission into whether christianity is just a religion...

I was going to Like this post, but didn't want to come across as anti-Christian or specifically anti-Catholic. However, the point is well made; I can't think of one religion where there hasn't been some controversy. Religion has, as far as I can tell, been the alternate power base used to control the masses (pun not intended). Unf, in all walks of life, there are opportunistic predators who pursue their, in some cases extremely demented and perverse, ends and use the tools of control and the positions of trust to satisfy them. The societal perception of the trustworthiness of these roles and societal acceptance of the control they exert results in extreme fear of the victims speaking up until the perception and importance of these institutions within society soften.

 

This is the same for any institution in society where there is trust and control. Religion (cults), politics, police, schools, hospitals, and even celebrities it transpires...

 

 

[Yenn]

It looks as if christianity is not just, never mind the religion bit.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

It looks as if christianity is not just, never mind the religion bit.

Indeed the basis of the gospel is profoundly unjust - not for us but for Christ. 1 Peter 3v18 "for Christ indeed has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God". Forgiveness and eternal life in heaven merely by asking forgiveness and placing ones faith in Christ who suffered terribly and died on our account; everything is stacked in mankinds favour here.

 

I would contend it isn't a religion but a relationship with the Creator however I understand the word 'religion' means different things to different people.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Hanson hits back as former One Nation faithful throw party into chaos

 

As One Nation implodes with in-fighting yet again, Pauline admits she was wrong about one little component of her anti-vaccination views - that people can do an allergy test before being vaccinated (I note she doesn't concede anything else even though her vaccination views are hopelessly discredited).

 

In typical ill-informed Pauline Hanson fashion she states "a couple of doctors have said there is no test.....". No Pauline, the entire medical and scientific community who've heard and read your comments have stated there is no such test, not just "a couple of doctors". It really wouldn't have been difficult to look this up before you opened your mouth, but that doesn't appear to be how your brain works.

 

Then she says "....and if that be the case, I am wrong." Yet again, Pauline qualifies her concession and seems to have trouble letting go of the indisputable, absolute fact that she is completely wrong and leaves a slim possibility that she might actually be right. She should simply say "obviously I was wrong" but she can't bring herself to do it. In this respect and many others, she is no different to any other politician.

 

Add this to her generous dose of paranoia the other day when on TV she stated "you can't tell a good Muslim from a bad one" WTF? That principle can pretty much apply to any person on the planet who you don't know, and even to some you do! We live probably 20 minutes from where Corey Breen used to live. If I saw him in the street I would never have had the faintest clue that he would go on to stab a random guy driving his car down the street in the neck then go around and brutally murder in a stabbing frenzy his father and step-mother in front of their two young kids at their home and be totally unapologetic about it. Her statement is meaningless drivel.

 

But that's what you get with Pauline and some of her representatives. A simmering soup of populist policies seasoned with plenty of cluelessness.

 

 

[Marty_d]

...but don't waste your breath Dutch.

 

Those who want to vote for her will not be swayed by logic, reason, common sense or good science. If that were the case they would never have considered voting for her at all.

 

 

[octave]

...but don't waste your breath Dutch.

Those who want to vote for her will not be swayed by logic, reason, common sense or good science. If that were the case they would never have considered voting for her at all.

 

OK was my birthday the other day and someone kindly gave me a rather nice bottle of Glen Fiddich an my wife is out tonight so no restrictions on how may glasses I consume, so I am ready to let fly!!!!

 

This idea that it is refreshing to vote in those people who's main qualification is not being in any way qualified. "I like Trump/Hanson, they talk like what I do". Sorry I want my pollies to talk in a way that I have to expend some mental effort to understand them, I wan't someone who is smarter than me. I can't understand why people naively think that running as country is easy and just requires good old every man commonsense but sadly this is just not true.

 

Today we hear on the news that exporting our natural gas may lead to supply problems with supply here. I would imagine that the everyone would have, a few years ago said lets remove all restrictions on importing gas (I probably would have) but here we are now with local business paying high prices for gas, these things are complicated for the professional pollie never mnid the Hanson/Trumps.

 

My main point here is that running a country is a complicated business much like teaching someone to fly. I think that anyone who say "I wan't an instructor who talks just like me, I don't want an elite aviator, I just want someone who talks like what I do, someone like me, and definitely not an "ELITE' pilot.

 

Anyway, it is 8:24, if I am quick I can refill my my glass with Glen Fiddich before the wife gets home. and claim that it is the glass i was drinking when she went out:cheers:

 

 

[storchy neil]

octave hope you are not diluting that glen Fiddich neil

 

 

[octave]

octave hope you are not diluting that glen Fiddich neil

How dare you even suggest such a thing, I merely show the glass of glen fiddich the water jug. People who put ice or anything else in good whiskey should be deported :( lol

 

 

[storchy neil]

gave a bottle to some bloke a while back when I did enjoy a drop of the good stuff went around to his place there they were adding coke and shit to it got me self two shots and drooped the bottle might as well tipp it out why a waste it on idiots neil