European Union "Divorce" case coming soon,. . .

[Phil Perry]

I said Russians, Phil, not Tory MP's...

Them too. . .although, our latest Government 'rear entrance' user is Keith Vaz [eline] MP, ( Lab ) I personally have no gripe with most things done by anyone in their private lives, however, a leading member of Parliament who is proved to have supplied drugs to young eastern european men, for engaging in lurid sex parties, cheating on his wife and lying about it. . . should not, in my view, occupy the chairmanship of a major commons committee. ( Elected to this position AFTER the news broke. . ! ) I don't doubt that a heck of a lot of this dishonesty goes on across party lines but I would prefer those in elected office who purport to 'Govern' us to have a 'little' more honesty and discretion about them.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I thought the mirror was in favor of brexit?

 

there is a income predictor, phil let us know how you go on it

 

Brits face 'dreadful decade' of almost no wage growth after disastrous Tory rule

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I thought the mirror was in favor of brexit?

there is a income predictor, phil let us know how you go on it

 

Brits face 'dreadful decade' of almost no wage growth after disastrous Tory rule

The Mirror has been a staunch Labour paper for decades, however, even though the Labour Party are in the 'Remain' camp, a significant number of their constituents are not. Some of the largest 'Leave' votes were from solid Labour areas in what used to be the Northern Industrial heartlands . . . . Traditional 'Working class' areas who have seen their jobs taken away by wholesale uncontrolled immigration from Eastern European countries whose workers are very good at doing a hard day's work, but due to unscrupulous bosses, they are quite happy to do this for very low rates of pay, minimum wage and less. The money that they earn then leaves the country and does not benefit the UK economy.

 

Incidentally,Disastrous 'Tory Rule' has on;y had a year so far,. . . . five years prior to that, we had a coalition between them and the Liberal Dumbocrats who were rabidly Pro-EU, and blocked any kind of sensible legislation aimed at commonsense policies. They were destroyed at the 2015 GE and left with only 8 MPs.

 

No 'Wage Growth' is going to be feasible until we leave the EU completely. Not possible without removing the 'Free Movement of People' bollox which is causing most of our grief.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Jobs will continue to be "taken away", if not by immigrants who are willing to work for bargain basement conditions, then by cheap chinese/indian/bangladeshi/korean imports made by people in factories who are willing to work for those same conditions.

 

That will continue to happen until the ordinary citizens out there are prepared to pay what it actually costs to produce an item locally.

 

I have witnessed on plenty of occasions white home-grown aussies typical of the "Reclaim Australia" crowd (or "Britain First" equivalent) stand and argue with a salesperson over the price of a locally manufactured item because it's several dollars more expensive than the cheap chinese knockoff in the same isle.

 

Fine.....go right ahead buy the cheap chinese knockoff produced by the factory worker willing to work for $3 an hour. But those people shouldn't raise their hopes of gaining any sort of respect from me when moaning about the loss of our manufacturing base.

 

I hear it time and time again from local businesses in our area who source their products from China etc: "yeah we'd love to produce everything here, but people here simply won't pay the money".

 

 

[Yenn]

Who says we won't pay the money.

 

I have given up buying from Bunnings. The quality is abysmal. Tools that don't stand up to light usage. Screws that shear the heads off, glue that doesn't work. I buy from other sources. The problem is that Bunnings have caused the closure of several competitors and once they are gone we are stuck with rubbish.

 

 

[Bruce]

Yenn, you are quite right and while I'm guilty of buying from Bunnings, we ( wife and I ) really worked at buying Dick Smith brand groceries. Alas, not enough others thought the same way.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I have a bottle of Ozesauce in our fridge!

 

I do actually try to buy Australian made whenever possible, from groceries to steel cladding for sheds. Sometimes however it's just impossible. We were shocked to hear our new horse float was being constructed with Chinese steel. It's common for horse floats to be directly imported from China but we went with an Aussie company employing a bunch of other Aussies who build it here, despite having to pay much more than for a Chinese import. The boss was apologetic but said they simply don't use Australian produced steel anymore because it's more expensive (true, but it's generally better quality) and no one will pay for it.

 

So ..... when everyone starts insisting on Australian made products even though they're a few extra dollars (courtesy of the fact our minimum wage is more than $3/hr) then maybe things will change. Until then, we get what we ask for.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Who says we won't pay the money.I have given up buying from Bunnings. The quality is abysmal. Tools that don't stand up to light usage. Screws that shear the heads off, glue that doesn't work. I buy from other sources. The problem is that Bunnings have caused the closure of several competitors and once they are gone we are stuck with rubbish.

You've just got to be selective. I wouldn't buy a power tool from Bunnings. But with screws etc it's horses for courses. Bunnings will sell you the cheap sh1t that's good for fixing 3mm plywood to pine, but they'll also sell you varying qualities of stainless decking screws that you need to redraw on the mortgage for... I should know, I used 4,000 of them on my deck and they cost about 25 cents a pop.

 

(I used to support our local hardware store by the way... but they closed down. It wasn't Bunnings fault, the land behind their store - which had been there for the past 100+ years - was bought up by a developer who's putting in a new shopping centre. Suddenly they had the choice of closing down or their rent quadrupling.)

 

Anyway yes we should buy local and pay what things are worth. Part of the problem is knowing what products are giving a fair return and what aren't. If I buy a $10 shirt from Rivers I'm pretty sure it was made by some poor bugger in Bangladesh in less than optimal employment conditions. But if I buy a $80 shirt from some little independent menswear shop, was it made by the same Bangladeshi with a different label sewed on, or someone else who got fairly paid for their effort?

 

 

[Bruce]

I agree dutch. The theory is that the $A will fall if too many imports take place and all will come good. The reality is that Chinese are buying our real estate and this counts as an "export", so anything which directly competes against imports is in trouble.

 

Even our wine! That is an example where we have lots of natural advantage, plus scientific ( as opposed to superstitious) winemakers.

 

I like drinking the stuff, but it's too cheap at the moment.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Jobs will continue to be "taken away", if not by immigrants who are willing to work for bargain basement conditions, then by cheap chinese/indian/bangladeshi/korean imports made by people in factories who are willing to work for those same conditions.

That will continue to happen until the ordinary citizens out there are prepared to pay what it actually costs to produce an item locally.

 

I have witnessed on plenty of occasions white home-grown aussies typical of the "Reclaim Australia" crowd (or "Britain First" equivalent) stand and argue with a salesperson over the price of a locally manufactured item because it's several dollars more expensive than the cheap chinese knockoff in the same isle.

 

Fine.....go right ahead buy the cheap chinese knockoff produced by the factory worker willing to work for $3 an hour. But those people shouldn't raise their hopes of gaining any sort of respect from me when moaning about the loss of our manufacturing base.

 

I hear it time and time again from local businesses in our area who source their products from China etc: "yeah we'd love to produce everything here, but people here simply won't pay the money".

 

I understand where you are coming from in that regard Dutch. I have always tried to buy 'Local' but since most of our manufacturing industries have gone, it isn't easy no matter what product you're after.

 

There is a TV show here about Australian Border control, it seems VERY strict. As does what we hear with regard to immigration control also. . . and unless it is BS, you as a counrty are lucky to have such a policy.

 

I wonder how things would be in Australia if your national border was legally 'Open' to workers from 27 other countries, who are able to come and go as they please and work anywhere, at any job without let or hindrance for whatever pay was offered . . . I wonder if this would have any effect on local wages in semi skilled, or even skilled jobs generally ? This is was what I was talking about , not actually cheap, 'knock off' products.

 

We have our share of 'Pound Shops' and bargain stores, selling tat, If you buy from them, it is pointless to whinge when you find that the stuff isn't as good as it looks.

 

 

[Marty_d]

As does what we hear with regard to immigration control also. . . and unless it is BS, you as a counrty are lucky to have such a policy.

Are we?

 

We lock up asylum seekers in hell-holes like Nauru or Manus Island. Even when they're proved to be genuine refugee we don't let them in, instead we make them continue to live in Nauru or PNG, hey we even offer them the option of going to Cambodia.

 

We even outsource their incarceration to private security companies, who have had thousands - literally thousands - of complaints including rape.

 

Detainees have proven psychological problems from long term incarceration. Children are self harming. One bloke recently burned himself to death.

 

But it must be cheaper if they don't get here, right?

 

Well, figures from the Parliamentary library itself show that it cost us about $1 million for every detainee on Manus Island between 2012 and 2016. Total cost of the deterrence policies from 2013 - 2016 financial years was $9.6 BILLION.

 

Australia's asylum seeker policy is a national shame. I don't think we're lucky to have it, I think the governments on both sides have used asylum seekers as scare campaign ever since the Howard years. It's the one thing that's made me vote Green in the last 2 elections, otherwise it would've been Labor.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Are we?

We lock up asylum seekers in hell-holes like Nauru or Manus Island. Even when they're proved to be genuine refugee we don't let them in, instead we make them continue to live in Nauru or PNG, hey we even offer them the option of going to Cambodia.

 

We even outsource their incarceration to private security companies, who have had thousands - literally thousands - of complaints including rape.

 

Detainees have proven psychological problems from long term incarceration. Children are self harming. One bloke recently burned himself to death.

 

But it must be cheaper if they don't get here, right?

 

Well, figures from the Parliamentary library itself show that it cost us about $1 million for every detainee on Manus Island between 2012 and 2016. Total cost of the deterrence policies from 2013 - 2016 financial years was $9.6 BILLION.

 

Australia's asylum seeker policy is a national shame. I don't think we're lucky to have it, I think the governments on both sides have used asylum seekers as scare campaign ever since the Howard years. It's the one thing that's made me vote Green in the last 2 elections, otherwise it would've been Labor.

 

Is all that true Marty ? ? ? . .we have not heard a negative thing about it on the BBC ? ? Pundits in the UK hold up Australia as a shining example in that regard. . . Effing disgrace by the sound of it.

 

I stand corrected on Australian border security. What I have written with regard to LEGAL migrants and 'Visiting' workers from EU countries in the UK still stands, and was the point of the original comment.

 

Phil.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Is all that true Marty ? ? ? . .we have not heard a negative thing about it on the BBC ? ? Pundits in the UK hold up Australia as a shining example in that regard. . . Effing disgrace by the sound of it.

I stand corrected on Australian border security. What I have written with regard to LEGAL migrants and 'Visiting' workers from EU countries in the UK still stands, and was the point of the original comment.

 

Phil.

Every word.

 

Of course our barking mad ex-PM Tony Abbott (he who was rolled by his own party after less than 2 years as PM) has been over in your fine land boasting of how he "stopped the boats", and encouraging Europe to follow our example.

 

He doesn't ever mention the human, or financial, cost.

 

If you're interested, award-winning author Richard Flanagan (a good Tassie boy) recently gave a harrowing lecture on the subject "does writing matter", where he read out a number of incident reports. Audio can be found here: Melbourne Writers Festival: Richard Flanagan

 

I love this country, but when we treat people like this, I think we've lost our moral compass.

 

 

[M61A1]

Every word.

Of course our barking mad ex-PM Tony Abbott (he who was rolled by his own party after less than 2 years leading it) has been over in your fine land boasting of how he "stopped the boats", and encouraging Europe to follow our example.

 

He doesn't ever mention the human, or financial, cost.

 

If you're interested, award-winning author Richard Flanagan (a good Tassie boy) recently gave a harrowing lecture on the subject "does writing matter", where he read out a number of incident reports. Audio can be found here: Melbourne Writers Festival: Richard Flanagan

 

I love this country, but when we treat people like this, I think we've lost our moral compass.

C'mon Marty....not everything on the ABC is true, in fact most of their stories about "refugees", or correctly termed "illegal immigrants", are overly embellished.

 

I was listening to one such story this morning, it was sickening. No, not what the detainees went through in detention, but the crap coming out of the interviewers mouth.

 

Realistically, if spending some time being detained, being housed, fed and given medical attention, while they thoroughly check your credentials, is worse that what you left, then they aren't refugees.

 

The very fact that they transited several other countries to get here, already says they aren't refugees.

 

 

[dutchroll]

C'mon Marty....not everything on the ABC is true, in fact most of their stories about "refugees", or correctly termed "illegal immigrants",

Actually "asylum seekers" is, and always has been, the correct term.

 

Not once in Australia's history has it ever been "illegal" to come here and seek asylum, and it still isn't. That doesn't mean they'll get it, but they're allowed to ask. A family from Syria is just as entitled to ask as a woman's rights activist fleeing Iran because she has been sentenced to death by stoning on trumped up adultery charges.

 

Of course it sounds so much more sinister, nasty, and criminal when they're "illegal immigrants". It's a neat trick, because you can have people here convinced they're already doing something illegal when they're not.

 

I still remember the Vietnamese boat-people influx when I was at school. These "filthy slope-heads", "slant-eyes" and "gooks" as I regularly heard them called were going to be the demise of our society, rape our women, never contribute anything, etc etc. Turns out most of them actually worked really hard, started their own businesses, and their kids ended up being high achievers at school. Shows the danger of pigeon-holing people fleeing to our shores.

 

Speaking of facts, do not read this explanation from the Parliament of Australia if you're not interested in them as it is complete with documented references.

 

Asylum seekers and refugees: what are the facts? – Parliament of Australia

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Is all that true Marty ? ? ?

Just as true as if you took it from the very pages of The Guardian.

 

They are mostly kept chained in darkened rooms for organ harvesting and medical experiments.

 

 

[M61A1]

Actually "asylum seekers" is, and always has been, the correct term.

Not once in Australia's history has it ever been "illegal" to come here and seek asylum, and it still isn't. That doesn't mean they'll get it, but they're allowed to ask. A family from Syria is just as entitled to ask as a woman's rights activist fleeing Iran because she has been sentenced to death by stoning on trumped up adultery charges.

 

Of course it sounds so much more sinister, nasty, and criminal when they're "illegal immigrants". It's a neat trick, because you can have people here convinced they're already doing something illegal when they're not.

 

I still remember the Vietnamese boat-people influx when I was at school. These "filthy slope-heads", "slant-eyes" and "gooks" as I regularly heard them called were going to be the demise of our society, rape our women, never contribute anything, etc etc. Turns out most of them actually worked really hard, started their own businesses, and their kids ended up being high achievers at school. Shows the danger of pigeon-holing people fleeing to our shores.

 

Speaking of facts, do not read this explanation from the Parliament of Australia if you're not interested in them as it is complete with documented references.

 

Asylum seekers and refugees: what are the facts? – Parliament of Australia

The term "unlawful non-citizen " would appear awfully close to "illegal immigrant". The point is that if bypass several other countries to get here and deliberately destroy all your documentation, then crack a wobbly about the process required to thoroughly check you out, then, I would think one should be very wary.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Just as true as if you took it from the very pages of The Guardian.

They are mostly kept chained in darkened rooms for organ harvesting and medical experiments.

There there, Gnu. Everything's fine. The government will look after you and Fox News will confirm your world view. Go back to sleep.

 

The term "unlawful non-citizen " would appear awfully close to "illegal immigrant". The point is that if bypass several other countries to get here and deliberately destroy all your documentation, then crack a wobbly about the process required to thoroughly check you out, then, I would think one should be very wary.

Quite different if you read the expanded section on "Are asylum seekers 'illegals'?"

 

I don't pretend to know the pressures on someone fleeing oppression or persecution and seeking a better life for their family. But have a look at the figures, again from the parliament of Australia itself, about what proportion of boat arrivals have been found to be genuine refugees:

 

 

As to bypassing other countries, in a lot of cases that's just good sense. Escaping Afghanistan because the Taliban want to kill you? Not much point stopping in Pakistan. India won't be all that welcoming. So you're at the ocean now and your choices are Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, East Timor, PNG... or here. If you're planning a life and future for your family, what would be your choice?

 

 

[dutchroll]

The term "unlawful non-citizen " would appear awfully close to "illegal immigrant". The point is that if bypass several other countries to get here and deliberately destroy all your documentation, then crack a wobbly about the process required to thoroughly check you out, then, I would think one should be very wary.

Well to be brutally honest M61A1, if an organisation had brutally murdered two dozen members of my family and I had nothing but the clothes I was wearing and one surviving son (just as an example), I'd be pretty much prepared to say anything in order to live somewhere else.

 

But then, we're not in that situation now, are we?

 

 

[M61A1]

There there, Gnu. Everything's fine. The government will look after you and Fox News will confirm your world view. Go back to sleep.

 

 

Quite different if you read the expanded section on "Are asylum seekers 'illegals'?"

 

I don't pretend to know the pressures on someone fleeing oppression or persecution and seeking a better life for their family. But have a look at the figures, again from the parliament of Australia itself, about what proportion of boat arrivals have been found to be genuine refugees:

 

 

As to bypassing other countries, in a lot of cases that's just good sense. Escaping Afghanistan because the Taliban want to kill you? Not much point stopping in Pakistan. India won't be all that welcoming. So you're at the ocean now and your choices are Bangladesh, Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, East Timor, PNG... or here. If you're planning a life and future for your family, what would be your choice?

Yep read all that... the point seems to be missed, that I have no problem with genuine refugees. What I am failing to get across is that if having to wait while we go through the process is worse than what you were going through, then maybe where you were wasn't that bad, so maybe your refugee status is questionable.

Well to be brutally honest M61A1, if an organisation had brutally murdered two dozen members of my family and I had nothing but the clothes I was wearing and one surviving son (just as an example), I'd be pretty much prepared to say anything in order to live somewhere else.

But then, we're not in that situation now, are we?

Exactly....pretty much anywhere else. Marty has just quoted a list of countries that are bad, yet it's all good to openly accept "asylum seekers" from all these places where everyone is bad. I really don't understand where the left come from....islam is great? Indonesia is good?, no wait it's bad, asylum seekers can't stop there, no wait again, they're so barbaric we don't even want to send live cattle there???

 

Could it be that they just want to go where the dumb westerners will give you everything for free?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I saw a TV prog about Australia a couple of years ago. Immigration was only mentioned a couple of times during this general documentary, in a positive fashion, saying that over a couple of hundred years, Australia was built upon immigration from all over the world. Part of it was about the way the Gold Coast had developed.

 

The ( Then ) Mayor of the Gold Coast ( Can't remember his name - sorry ) said that it was now a wonderful vibrant place full of diverse peoples. He also said, with regard to immigration, that, whilst newcomers were most welcome, that 'You can't ALL come'

 

 

[Bruce]

Immigration is the issue which has caused a working-class revolt in recent times. Pauline Hanson in Australia, the Brexit vote and Trump are all examples where the workers have rejected their "natural" leaders, and the moneyed people behind those leaders.

 

And it's easy to see why. The benefits of immigration are obvious if you have a block of flats to let.

 

But if you have to live with the downside of increased competition for everything then you might not be so keen.

 

Melbourne has 1,500 immigrants a week, and the traffic speed reduces every week.

 

While I agree that a woman facing stoning has a good claim to asylum, what I don't like is the fact that she will probably be bringing with her the very thing ( her religion/culture) that she is fleeing. The same bleeding hearts who invite her here will insist that her children have taxpayer-funded Moslem schools where the boys are taught the necessity for stoning adulterers.

 

Personally, I would let in a much smaller number and insist on a proper 2 way deal in which they had to choose between asylum and their dysfunctional culture.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I know we've been through this before... but when it comes to religion, culture, or just about anything else in life, people are on a spectrum. In terms of refugees when it comes to religion/culture, in most cases they're fleeing persecution from other people much further along that spectrum than themselves, so the mere fact of them undertaking a long, expensive and life-threatening journey to get to a secular liberal democracy makes it unlikely that they'll be raving radicals.

 

Just like with christians there'll be some muslims who rarely if ever go to mosque. There's some that will call themselves muslims because that was the way they were brought up, but they don't believe in god at all. My bet is that the more secular ones are the ones feeling the boot of oppression on their necks more than most.

 

I agree that all schools, including islamic ones, and christian ones for that matter, should have an eye kept on them. If they start teaching hatred and violence then the government has given themselves enough laws to deal with the matter (including the much-reviled 18C which was designed for this purpose). But I don't agree that there should be no islamic schools, unless of course you want to shut down all religion-based private education? By the way I don't think any imam in Australia could get away with teaching that stoning adulterers is in any way acceptable, and if they are then our police aren't doing their job.

 

Could it be that they just want to go where the dumb westerners will give you everything for free?

Well, we don't give them anything that we don't already give the poorest in our own society. Maybe they just want to go somewhere where their children have a better future?

 

If you can give me figures (from reliable studies) that show that, overall, refugees have worse long-term outcomes than people born in Australia (in terms of employment, small business creation, crime rates etc), then I'll agree that we shouldn't let them in.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Forgetting Immigration for a moment, I have touched on this subject before, ie, the lossof insustry from the UK to other parts of Europe, FUNDED BY GRANTSFROM PURWONDERFUL EU.

 

I had started a list ofcompanies 'Lost' due tothis but then lost interest. My friend Les, who is a journalist on a locl newspaper, ( Yes, there are still some proper journalists left in the UK, although they are a dying breed ) has compiled a much better list that mine, and all of this ( he says ) is independentoly 'Checkable' for factuality. His list follows. . . it should bring a tear to my eye but I'm already too bloody cynical about the EU for that. . . . This was an email directly to me, so his comments are also embedded therein.

 

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

 

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

 

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU

 

grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works

 

and emptied the workers pension funds.

 

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

 

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH

 

steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

 

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.

 

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.

 

M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

 

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

 

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

 

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

 

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

 

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant

 

will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

 

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

 

ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

 

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

 

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

 

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

 

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

 

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

 

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

 

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

 

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

 

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare,Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

 

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

 

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc.,and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any

 

more, due to EU regulations.

 

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

 

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.

 

 

 

Cheers Phil,. . .are you coming to the Telford Aviation fair in early December ? We will be on the strobe stand with Paul from Aveo Electronics. . . see you there hopefully.

 

 

[storchy neil]

hey phil apply for a eu grant for your next holiday

 

same over here can I get a grant to export turnbull shorten and greens over to you oh plus some well tanned others neil