European Union "Divorce" case coming soon,. . .

[Marty_d]

Not taking sides here Phil, but I've heard that insurance company QBE has started to move its operations away from Britain and it won't be the only one.

 

Plus the "divorce settlement" that the UK has to pay for leaving the club may turn out to be fairly high - the figure of 100 billion has been bruited about on the airways...

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Not taking sides here Phil, but I've heard that insurance company QBE has started to move its operations away from Britain and it won't be the only one.Plus the "divorce settlement" that the UK has to pay for leaving the club may turn out to be fairly high - the figure of 100 billion has been bruited about on the airways...

 

Yes, it was only £40 Billion last week, . . they are worried after British MEPs pointed out to them that whatever 'Divorce settlement' they might demand, they will, in any event receive an invoice for the United Kingdom's share of all EU assets proportionately contributed to over the last forty years. This will amount to, conservatively, around £325 Billion. . . hence the sudden increase . . ! !

 

They are simply playing silly buggers Marty. There WILL in all fairness be some funds which can legally and morally be claimed from the UK, where there are ongoing shared projects of note. This is to be expected and would not be challenged. The rest is wishful thinking BS. What's more, they Know it is. Their main problem at present is the presence of Jean Claude Juncker, the alcoholic President of the EU. .. every time he opens his mouth he makes everyone else in the EU look rather stupid, underminig what has already been said. They are doing their best to sideline the man, but as he was 'Appointed' and not elected, this could be somewhat difficult. At the moment, he is an unwitting asset to the UK.

 

The main thing to understand is that the UK holds all the cards, being the largest nett importer of goods from the EU. If we ended up just walking away and operating WTO rules, they would be royally stuffed, this also,. . .they Know. Yes it would cause pain to the UK, but this would be balanced fairly soon due open trade with the rest of the world.

 

There are still a couple of major pieces of legislation to get through Parliament though, these being the repeal of the 1972 EC act, and disconnection from the EHCR. Our own courts are well capable of upholding Human Rights, and after this we would not be forced to sustain foreign criminals in a life of leisure due to their past edicts.

 

This is the main reason behind Mrs. May's declaration of a snap General election. It's a gamble of course, but if she increases her majority, the above legislation will be most difficult for the 'Remainers' to obstruct. She can also get rid of the Dead Wood in her own party who refuse to go along with the Brexit plan.

 

I take on board your comment re companies moving out of the UK, as I have no doubt some will, if they feel that they can do better inside the EU zone. These could well be balanced though, by other companies, ie Japanese car manufacturers etc, already moving to the UK and investing in new plants.

 

It is going to be an 'Interesting' few years indeed.

 

As a slight aside,. . . .yesterday, Mr Juncker, and the Chief EU negotiator, Mr Barnier, said that British Prime Minister Theresa May should be banned from any face to face negotiations with regard to 'Brexit'

 

Bloody LOL ! You coudn't Make this crap up . . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

It is not paranoia to suspect the EU of interfering in British politics, says Brendan O'Neill, Well known Labour MP and active supporter of the 'Vote Leave' campaign.

 

 

 

[Phil Perry]

These blokes at the Russian Embassy in London are Great. . . they really DO undestand our humour . . .!

 

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[bexrbetter]

Watching the Marine Le Pen / M. Macron televised pre-election debtate. . .Oh dear, Macron has lost it several times.

I will watch the whole thing, but no time today.

 

I did get the first 5 minutes in though, enough time to hear Macron say that France's unemployment has steadily been getting worse for the last 30 years, while other EU members have been improving. He goes on to say he will reform the Labor laws etc.

 

Well DUH Mr EU supporter, what has happened over the last "30 years"??

 

1981 saw Spain and Portugal included, and 1990 saw the Eastern Bloc opened up so East Germany joined up by proxy, along with Cyprus and Malta.

 

2004 had Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia join.

 

[/url]

 

And guess what, for the last 30 years? French companies have all been running off to get manufacturing in those cheaper countries!!

 

 

 

This is an example, Renault car manufacturing, note the timeline here, remember Slovenia joined the EU in 2004, and the production figures and realise how many French jobs have been taken away ..

 

 

 

Revoz - Wikipedia

 

 

 

How much of a rocket scientist do you have to be to understand that?

 

 

 

The concept of the original reasonably equivalent wealthy countries becoming the EEC was great for trade between them, how do you expect to introduce poor countries and maintain your wealth and social structure, let alone culture, the simple answer is you can't. The EU does exist to make the rich richer, which I have no issue with, but it can't be done at such a cost to humans and their cultures.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Have you ever heard of the term 'PONZI SCHEME' ?

 

That describes the EU in eleven words and a space. . . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

Just as an observer, M's May seems to be getting a little stressed out under the pressure. This will not be a bloodless exit. The EU is one of the reasons the "Warring Tribes of Europe" have been somewhat peaceful for a while. ALL starting to unwind I think. Pity. Apart from the International banks behaviour and an influx of unwanted people It went fairly well. Small margins for BIG changes are not smart. Simple majority is too unstable with small margins, that's why it's rarely done with constitutional matters. Nearly as many don't want it as do. You have Ireland and Scotland to consider too. Politicise an issue and reap the consequences. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The EU is one of the reasons the "Warring Tribes of Europe" have been somewhat peaceful for a while. ALL starting to unwind I think.

2nd time you have mentioned the "Warring Tribes of Europe", who are you specifically referring to?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Facthunter - your words are indeed of wisdom. There is a lot of good that came out of the EU; much more than the cost. However, the more popular press has hounded the EU for every failing - and there have been some spectacular ones. However, while I am philosophically a remainer and seen through some of the popular press (and by that, in an admittedly somewhat condescending way, the press that appeal to those whose intellectual application (not necessarily capacity) is somewhat lacking), I did in fact vote to exit because of two reasons:

 

- The EU (and it's global supporters) did not help itself by threatening the British of painful ramifications if it decided to leave. I can't recall such political statements previously and it was one of the decisive blows IMHO as it reinforced the popular opinion of a self-serving undemocratic instution that was sticking it up to Britain.

 

- The EU has had some major blunders, albeit in narrow sectors of the community - but the intertia at which, despite massive protest based on reason, they moved to repair the blunders, usually way too late (and I am still grappling with one they will never repair, which is ultimately costing the national economies billions and will never achieve what it desires to).

 

I keep hearing about how undemocratic the EU is and how their "stupid" laws impact us badly. What people forget is that their institutions are indeed as democratic, if not more than the UK.. The council is composed of elected heads of state. The parliament is composed of directly elected MEPs and the commission is the executive - the akin to the civil service. And I don't recall our civil service being elected. And the parliament can, as was seen in the early 2000's can dismiss the whole of the European Commission or individual commissioners. I don't recall any primary law making function of the EU being made by anyone who is unelected. In the UK, the upper house (House of Lords) is wholly unelected and if the government want to bypass the check they can either flood the house with peers of their allegiance or use the parliament acts.

 

The Commission can propose laws, drafts the legislation and can "enact" secondary legislation - pretty well much as the civil service here. I think, however, the EU doesn't allow private members bills, but that is understandable in some respects as it's law making rules were based around a supra-national institution facilitating closer economic ties rather than trying for a federal state.

 

Where it has raised the ire of the UK are:

 

- Maastrict treaty - an ever closer political union; The UK is friends with Europe, but with the exception of a couple of countries, that friendship is one with a dash of cynicism and suspicion; Many people of here see it as a German attempt to achieve what they couldn't in WWII

 

- ECHR - which sort of shows some of the problems with the press here. The ECHR is not an EU institution - it sits in Strasbourg and I believe (although could be wrong - memory failing me now) that the UK was a founder of the ECHR and was a member before 1972. Subscribing to the ECHR is a requirement to join the EU (and the ECJ applies ECHR rights into it's law). Why anyone would want to vote away their rights is beyond me...

 

- ECJ - It has interpreted EU law (and ECHR rights) well beyond the normal interpretation in many cases, especially on free movement of labour as opposed to citizens. This has allowed EU citizen to arbitrage things like welfare and other state benefits. The UK has a generous (if not over-generous) welfare framework and I know that it is abused - both by British and non-British EU citizens alike.

 

- Regulatory complexity. The levels of regulatory complexity here are amazing. Often an EU statutory authority is trying to fix the primary regulation and the national regulator than tries to fix that. The result - harmonisation is as quite harmonised and one thinks.

 

- Public Relations: The EU is so self serving, it is a PR nightmare... Their behaviour in the referendum exemplified it.

 

- Cultural differences - there is a wider cultural difference between the UK and the rest of Europe than between different continental European countries (in general). Many of the laws that have emanated don't sit easily with UK culture.

 

- Over sensationalism of EU laws: Remember the bananas that shouldn't be bent? The faux par of the Barry Council blaming their by-law of kids banned from playing in the streets on the EU or the claim that Boris' then mate's dad went bust as a fisherman because of the EU, when his dad came out and debumked that myth, too. The truth didn't quite get as much airplay as the myths (which still do).

 

It's a bit like Obamacare.. I was listening to an interview in the mid-west US where a punter who voted Trump was extolling the virtues Trump hopefully getting to repeal Obamacare. The reporter asked if he had medical insurance, to which the interviewee said yes and went on to say it was under the Affordable Health Care Act. Stunned, the reported asked if he knew it was the same as Obamacare, and the interviewee responded and maintained it wasn't. When he loses it (or it costs a hell of a lot more), he will understand...

 

 

[facthunter]

Thanks for the lengthy and informative comment.. I fear they have underestimated the complexity of unwinding the agreement.. Clearly you can't expect to be outside while retaining all the privileges of membership. When it was conceived I felt the "common" currency was impossible to have work and the EU was essentially a Trade Cartel. A vast amount of exports from Australia to the UK were just wiped out and Tasmania suffered possibly more that the rest. Perhaps other "Commonwealth" Countries experienced similar. A lot of politics being played in the UK or perhaps the dis united Kingdom as well as unhelpful comments from Herr Juncker and plenty of Brits. Rule Brittania will never be an appropriate song for a modern UK. There is a considerable risk in exiting the arrangement and it's not possible to predict or assess it's dimension with a lot of accuracy. Eastern Europe could be the place where most adverse changes could happen. Why was Trump so keen for it to collapse ? Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

More EU profligacy. . .

 

A new museum paying tribute to the plethora of wonderful achievements of the European Union (stop laughing) has opened in Brussels.

 

Fittingly, in typical EU style, it opened 10 years behind schedule and cost a whopping £47 million. At least they are keeping it true to

 

the project!

 

The ‘House of European History’ is now open but reportedly unfinished and slightly ramshackle, with Brexit tucked away as an inconvenient

 

reality best ignored.

 

UKIP MEP Jonathan Arnott summed it up fairly well: “In one way, I suppose the House of European History is a great metaphor for the EU

 

itself.

 

“The public never asked for it, it’s cost far more than we were originally told, the money is being spent on self-serving propaganda,

 

and British citizens are expected to pay for it.”

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Thanks for the lengthy and informative comment.. I fear they have underestimated the complexity of unwinding the agreement.. Clearly you can't expect to be outside while retaining all the privileges of membership. When it was conceived I felt the "common" currency was impossible to have work and the EU was essentially a Trade Cartel. A vast amount of exports from Australia to the UK were just wiped out and Tasmania suffered possibly more that the rest. Perhaps other "Commonwealth" Countries experienced similar. A lot of politics being played in the UK or perhaps the dis united Kingdom as well as unhelpful comments from Herr Juncker and plenty of Brits. Rule Brittania will never be an appropriate song for a modern UK. There is a considerable risk in exiting the arrangement and it's not possible to predict or assess it's dimension with a lot of accuracy. Eastern Europe could be the place where most adverse changes could happen. Why was Trump so keen for it to collapse ? Nev

 

Nev, the way Australia, NZ and other countries of the 'Commonwealth' were cut off was and s noting short of treason. When Edward Heath's documents were released under the 30 year rule, it was plain to see that the 'Treason' law had been well and truly broken when The EEC gave instructions that the UK was no longer allowed to continue dealing with countries loyal to the crown and Heath signed up to this arbitrarily, making sure that his treachery was kept secret. I have posted extracts from this elsewhere on the site.

 

You are right that 'Clearly' the UK cannot expect to retain membership 'Facilities' of a club after leaving. I would not either. What we DO want os a like for like trading agreement, which, bear in mind will help the EU to survive, since the UK BUYS a heck of a lot more from the EU than we sell to them. It is in their interests to make this so. I hope that all the childish chest beating winds down soon, as it is unhelpful to say the least

 

Because EVERY leader of the UK since Edward Heath has continued the lie regarding closer political integration and overall control of the the country by the EU, thousands of regulations and edicts have been added which WILL, as you rightly say, take a long time to unwind where neccessary. Our Jerry Attrick could explain a lot of this as he knows a lot more about the nuts and bolts of class 1, 2 and 3 legislative procedures. However, I cannot believe that this is impossiblle, with the right amount of commonsense applied by both camps, with far less childish nonsense.

 

The current EU mantra of 'Britain cannot be seen to prosper from leaving the club' pushed along happily 24/7 by our wonderfully EU compliant BBC and others in the media, is a load of Psychological brainwashing BS.

 

I Hope that Prime Minister Theresa May is telling us the truth about her real intentions re Brexit, and ought to be reminded of what happened in the Netherlands some time back. . .

 

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[facthunter]

There's a cannibalising joke about why British flesh is so expensive. Someone else can quote it if needed. Anyhow getting back to colonialization, empires and such. Those has been replaced by USA style corporisation and trade agreements where the deal over rides the country's ability to legislate anything in any way restricting the making of profit. High standard of living can be based on slavery and market control/ currency manipulation etc. Just making profits can't be THE determinant of a good deal. Capitalism works for the USA and their position as the world's policeman means it will try to continue to do that, even if it risks war. Britain had wars with many countries in the past (including the USA) and USA interferes more than it should to maintain the favourable (for them ) situation backed by it's military. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Anyhow getting back to colonialization, empires and such. Those has been replaced by USA style corporisation and trade agreements where the deal over rides the country's ability to legislate anything in any way restricting the making of profit.

Great post Nev, and yet a few days back you are the same guy who denies those exact foundations that power Brexit, or is it your brother posting?

 

Any update yet on those "Waring Nations of the EU"?

 

 

[facthunter]

Fairly commonly used term. Surprised you find it inappropriate. Study European History. Prior to the EU really getting going they couldn't understand a word of the people's language who had been next door to them for hundreds of years and much more. Now euro people travel all over and enjoy what it has to offer. Trouble is it appears too good to undeveloped countries, that mothers send there kids over to get money and send back just like the kid over the road did. It's economic forces as much as anything else except for the actual places they bomb to rubble where you just can't live in the ME which is just a hell hole.. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Going back to the economics of Brexit, I received the following from Journo friend Ian this morning, with some numbers regarding the UK trading deficit. . . marginally interesting to those who may care.

 

In 2016, United Kingdom incurred the highest trade deficits with the following countries:

 

Germany: US$42.7 billion (country-specific trade deficit in 2016)

 

China: $40.9 billion

 

Netherlands: $20.8 billion

 

Belgium: $15.8 billion

 

Norway: $13.2 billion

 

Italy: $10.2 billion

 

Switzerland: $9.7 billion

 

Spain: $9 billion

 

Canada: $7.4 billion

 

France: $7.3 billion

 

Among United Kingdom’s trading partners that cause the greatest negative trade balances, UK deficits with Spain (up 1,693%), Netherlands (up 162.6%) and Belgium (up 124.5%) grew at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016.

 

Just those countries in the EU above total $104 billion. At today's exchange rates that's £80.22 billion or €95.02 billion. That's an awful lot of goods and services we buy from the EU.

 

Emmanuel Macron may want to try and screw us over on Brexit, but German manufacturers will make Merkel stomp on him very hard indeed.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Banksy paints Brexit-inspired mural on Dover building

[bexrbetter]

Prior to the EU really getting going they couldn't understand a word of the people's language who had been next door to them for hundreds of years and much more. Now euro people travel all over and enjoy what it has to offer.

What has happened is a direct result of progress, and was always going to happen, and nothing to do with the EU.

 

I am Australian, Australia is NOT a member of the EU, yet I can not only travel throughout Europe unhampered, I can also do it throughout most of the world, who are also NOT members of the EU. Because of a thousand reasons of modern progress such as computers and telecommunications offering immediate Passport ID and criminal history available, to cheap fast travel by road or air to every country wanting tourist dollars.

 

In Australia alone in 1977 there was 1.5 million outbound passengers, 30 years later in 2017 there was 18 million, the rest of the world is the same, what idiot country wouldn't make things easier to let you and your credit cards in?

 

International tourism to hit an all-time high this year with 1.1 BILLION people travelling abroad | Daily Mail Online

 

Britain's tourist dollar and access to genuine people will not be effected by them leaving the EU.

 

I am quite verse with European history, very little relevance to modern era.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

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[Marty_d]

The trouble is, Phil, that you could use exactly the same series of pictures with the "Leave" protesters in the middle...

 

 

[Phil Perry]

The trouble is, Phil, that you could use exactly the same series of pictures with the "Leave" protesters in the middle...

Indeed quite true Marty,. . .just a bit of 'Tit-for-Tat'. .this one started doing the rounds with a 'Vote Leave' crowd shown. . .only time will tell which mob is the tats,. .and which represents the tits. . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

Indeed quite true Marty,. . .just a bit of 'Tit-for-Tat'. .this one started doing the rounds with a 'Vote Leave' crowd shown. . .only time will tell which mob is the tats,. .and which represents the tits. . .

Was that 'tit for tat' or 'tat for tit'?

 

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[Phil Perry]

Was that 'tit for tat' or 'tat for tit'?

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Tatts for Titts ?. . .like the flowers though,, . . reminded me of 'Flowery Twats' . . .an anagram of the sign outside the hotel in 'Fawlty Towers'. . .which was rearranged for each episode. . .

 

'Farty Towels' was another version. . . .

 

A friend has a large picture of a Spitfire above the white cliffs of Dover tattood across his back. . . .brilliant artwork, but his moobs are hairy, and not as attractive as the ones in your picture . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

This is a letter template deigned primarily by my mate Colin, for sending to new candidates standing for MP at the forthcoming UK General Election.

 

I've added some stuff about their consumption of subsidised alcohol and their propensity for having lots of other jobs outside of Parliament, as if the £74,000 per annum salary plus expenses isn't sufficient for a three and a half day week, plus some bits about playing games on mobile devices in the Commons Chamber. .( A regular ocurrence for those who watch the Parliament TV channel )

 

The Letter.

 

13 Every Street

 

Most Town Estate

 

Thisplace

 

WR1 RU2

 

Dear (Here, insert the name of your chosen candidate or use Sir, Madam, Non-Specific, Binary or Trans)

 

I am writing to you to express my concern at the apparent inability of the outgoing government and those members of parliament that sat on the opposition benches to actually do anything apart from moan and complain about how tough the job of being an MP is. You all know, as well as I do, that MP’s normally work a 3.5 day week and enjoy a remuneration and expenses package that most of your constituents can only dream of. The whole lot of you, from whatever side of the “so called” political divide you inhabit have become far too comfortable. 1% is good enough for the majority of British workers, why not you?

 

This enforced idleness will, if you are elected, create a void in your life and, given the myriad temptations of London could well get you into trouble. Can I suggest that you steer clear of too much alcohol, avoid the pitfalls of illicit drugs and try not to send out photographs of yourself on social media, dressed only in your underwear? Not a good look. It might also behove you to carefully consider restricting your appearances on the ABBC to the very minimum, no matter how lucrative the offer. Coming across as stupid, uniformed and ridiculously under prepared isn’t good for your image, especially if you lack the self awareness to learn from your gaffes.

 

If I were in your position I would consciously make an effort to restrict the time spent on twitter and Facebook; delete Candy Crush and Angry Birds from my expenses funded smart phone and promise to get some work done. We don’t ask much as a nation, accordingly I present a small list of things that ALL potential MP’s should see as priorities. A list in fact that if any one of you had the guts to introduce would ensure your party would be in government, not just for a couple of terms but for millennia to come.

 

1. The EU Referendum wasn’t about your “consciences” or how YOU personally felt; it was about the will of the majority of the British people. Stop with all the messing about and get four- square behind “Brexit”. Show a united front to the jackals of the EU and prove you really are the representatives of the people. Tell the EU that if they want to play silly buggers we’ll stop paying NOW and we will not be paying any exit fee. That should focus a few minds.
    
   
2. Tell the Police and the National statistics office to stop lying about crime figures and to start arresting criminals. Criminals aren’t victims, they have choices and the sooner they are made aware of this the better
    
   
3. CLOSE THE BORDERS NOW and only open them again when we have a proper set of border controls in place. I know this might be hard work, but it’s fundamental and you lot will hardly be stretched if elected, will you?
    
   
4. CONFRONT ISLAM, all this NTDWI and RoP nonsense is just blowing smoke up the backsides of the majority of the population. We all now know that Muslim “radicals” are picking out the stupid and impressionable, plying them with drugs, booze and false promises of virgins before telling them to go out and murder the kuffar. You get paid to sort this kind of thing out; please, for crying out loud get on with it. Also, I’m pretty certain we don’t really need any more mosques or people to fill them. Think long and hard about polygamy and its impact on both the British culture and the hard pressed welfare system.
    
   
5. Look to yourselves, use mirrors, use shop windows. Do you really want to work alongside and close ranks around corrupt and sexually depraved individuals? Do you honestly believe it’s possible to be an efficient MP when you are holding down 3, 4 or even 5 jobs? Do you honestly expect the voters to believe you aren’t all at risk of being corrupted when those of you that are continually getting away with it?
    
   
6. Consider, seriously, the reintroduction of the death penalty. This will allow you to bring in laws on sentencing that reflect the true cost of crime in our society, it also means that even the most “devout” Islamist will think twice before beheading a serving soldier on a British street.
    
   
7. Stop with all the “lone wolf” nonsense. It’s rubbish and it insults our intelligence.
    
   
8. Consider, very seriously, closing down the ABBC; don’t think about “radically overhauling it” or making it a subscription service. The whole corrupt edifice that was once the “envy of the world” is a nest of “liberal” vipers run for the benefit of its managers and its overpaid celebrities and presenters.
    
   

 

 

I know that these few things might seem a little daunting when, for so long, the decision making process has been in the hands of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. But now’s your chance, if you really do have the good of the nation as your reason for standing for parliament why not try to prove it. With a little bit of good old British grit and determination I’m sure you could at least make a start. Just imagine the legacy that could be left if you began to right the wrongs visited on the majority of the population of this once fair country. Forget the subsidised beer and wine of the Strangers Bar and instead of worrying about whether your pensions will be sufficient to maintain your relaxed and cushy lifestyle in perpetuity do something.

 

Yours Very Respectfully

 

___________________

 

 

[Marty_d]

Flowery Twats... love it.

 

Yes it's amazing, the pictures that come up when you google "Tattoo Tits". I posted the mildest.