Turnbull votes against truckies pay rise - drops 4%

[Methusala]

The week, following the Turnbull governments voting against a long overdue increase in pay for the nation's independent truck drivers, Essential polling research shows a 4% drop in the Liberals' vote. We all know that trucks carry a huge proportion of the countries trade and that truckies work incredibly hard in the most dangerous occupation of all. Despite the mass media showing this as a 'coup for small business', I think that Australians are not fooled. They saw this move as consistent with the Liberals doing all that they can to support the big end of town against workers livelihoods. I have just returned from a trip to Melbourne and know how stressful long distance driving can be. Most travelers can empathise with a driver who is forced to work long, lonely hours away from home. You can be sure that the 200 trucks that descended on Canberra last week were not paid for by truckies struggling to make a living working around 80 hours per week to make the payments on their rig.

 

Over the past 10 years wages for the lowest 10% of workers have increased by $7,000pa while the wages of the upper 10% have increased by $47,000. This IS class war and we all know who is winning. BTW let's call out Nick Xenaphon for the Liberal stalking horse that he undoubtedly is. Regards Don

 

 

[Jaba-who]

What's this got to with flying?

 

Can I suggest political stuff and particularly political stuff unrelated to flying be banned from the website.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Banning topics unless they are offensive is like political censorship. Freedom of speech is important and some issues are more important to some than others. This thread belongs in the "Off Topic" forum not in "General Discussion" which should have a general reference to something Aviation in my opinion. There are plenty of topics that have no reference to flying but have been the subject of lively debate which is a good thing as I see it.

 

 

[coljones]

What's this got to with flying?Can I suggest political stuff and particularly political stuff unrelated to flying be banned from the website.

Not at all!! The current behaviors of Governments, oppositions, politicians and the public service are all waymarkers to future behaviors. The attitude of the government to indi truck drivers might be an indication of their future attitude to the non corporate business end of aviation. This includes RA and the private end of GA where procedural and financial constraints may well bugger our access to our sport, jobs and pastimes.

 

In NSW the government decided that they would sacrifice cyclists at the behest of shock jocks and nanny staters. What next, banning ultra lights within 300 metres of any road or building because they make noise and might fall out of the sky?

 

Beware any politician doing a favour for you - there is usually a well hidden plan up their sleeves.

 

 

[Geoff13]

The OP shows a total lack of understanding of what actually happened with the RSO andthe RSRT.

 

The final outcome whilst it was not as good as it could have been was an absoloute win for the small operators.

 

Knowing at least 7 of the operators in the mentioned convoy I can assure the OP that they were owner operators and were not funded by the big end of town.

 

The RSRT proved with the RSO that it had neither the interests of small operators or road safety in its plan.

 

It would have annilated the owner operators of this country and ensured support for the multinational transport operators and as such boosted union membership, which when you search the history of the RSRT was the most likely true reason it was set up.

 

This was a win for the small guys of which I am one all be it at the cost of what could have been the best thing to hit our industry since Razorback, if only it had been done correctly.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The ambushing of the RSRT was quiet spectacular, show you how well the gov and big business is working at the moment. Campaign conducted behind closed doors with the senate cross bench. If only the gov could fix CASA so quickly

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Ok fair enough - but it is a waste of time.

 

Like debating why green is your favourite colour and why someone who prefers red is wrong.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Ok fair enough - but it is a waste of time.Like debating why green is your favourite colour and why someone who prefers red is wrong.

It was not a waste of time to the 30,000 plus owner operators or their families who were directly affected by it.

 

I do agree that this thread should be in the off topic forum but it is no less worthy of debate simply because of that.

 

 

[Methusala]

Amongst all that has been written and reported on this strange manoeuvre by the government I have seen nothing constructive on what to do about poor pay and terrible conditions in the heavy transport industry. It is a fact that transport is the most dangerous occupation and that many of the lives wrecked through catastrophic accidents are those of the uninvolved public. I believe that unions are only one side in industrial relations and that many employers are involved in poor practices. Let's have a real discussion aimed at solving problems, not just a one sided blame game. I have seen a representative of drivers expressing support for better pay and conditions for contract drivers and owner drivers. I am not involved in any way except as a fellow road user and interested citizen. I have been self-employed for the bulk of my working life. Don

 

 

[kgwilson]

If successive governments had not put their collective heads in the sand but spent money on improving and extending the rail network our roads would be much safer, less busy, cheaper to build and maintain and transport costs much lower. The huge numbers of B doubles and other massive trucks on the Pacific Highway these days is mind boggling. And it's only going to get worse.

 

 

[Russ]

the days of truckies ( HC and MC ) doing huge hrs is long gone. Transport inspectors are all over it, logbooks are the first thing you pass out your window, any....any errors you make in them....you get slammed, big time. Yes.....you can "fiddle".....a bit, however being caught out, and you will be at some point, the consequences will seriously dent your hip pocket.

 

Transport coppers, have in place methods to track your days,hrs, movements. They know to the hr, how long it takes from "A....to B "..( town to town, city to city ) they open your logbook, do some simple maths, check "their" data, if the 2 don't gel...........good luck

 

Already trialling electronic logging in heavy vehicles, it's tamper proof, they pull you up, plugin their computor, download content.........everything, everything shows up. Another method also being trialled.....is "tracking". Both these methods will eventually be mandatory.

 

A growing number of companies are running 2 drivers per truck, allows long distance movements. Insurance Co's now wipe their hands of you, if accidents can be attributed to fatigue caused by excessive hrs, and/or "fudged" log books.

 

Sadly........the "big transport" companies, are strangling owner drivers, forcing many to "contract driving" to the big players, on big players terms. It's that......or no work.

 

Big "receivers" of freight, engage the big transport companies..........more and more. Smaller operators, owner drivers etc, in the main, are loosing the battle, and it's bloody wrong.

 

Same thing when big retailer opens store in country locale......the long established "local store" is lucky to survive. "loyalty" towards the local store, slowly deminishes.....we go for the cheaper supplier.....it's only a matter of time.

 

Read recently....woolies, are keen to setup their own pharmacies in their stores, they'll find a way to do it. ( goodbye local pharmacies ).......what's next.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Same thing when big retailer opens store in country locale......the long established "local store" is lucky to survive. "loyalty" towards the local store, slowly deminishes.....we go for the cheaper supplier.....it's only a matter of time.Read recently....woolies, are keen to setup their own pharmacies in their stores, they'll find a way to do it. ( goodbye local pharmacies ).......what's next.

Now that your local hardware shop is long gone, so are the bargains at Bunnings.

 

 

[Methusala]

Truckies may exploit new laws to work longer hours

 

Date

 

November 10, 2013, SMH

 

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/truckies-may-exploit-new-laws-to-work-longer-hours-20131109-2x8uv.html#ixzz476AcnQIU

 

Truck drivers on long-haul shifts will be able to manipulate looming changes to national heavy vehicle laws so they can work longer shifts - in some cases, more than 16 hours in a single day - in what police warn is a troubling backwards step for road safety. In WA it is possible to work for 17 hours on two consecutive days but no more than 11 hours the next day

 

 

[Yenn]

It is not only trucks clogging up the roads In Qld they carry railway wagons on the road.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Well if it is in the SMH it must be right, journalists never get anything wrong.

 

Truckies may exploit new laws to work longer hoursDate

 

November 10, 2013, SMH

 

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/truckies-may-exploit-new-laws-to-work-longer-hours-20131109-2x8uv.html#ixzz476AcnQIU

 

Truck drivers on long-haul shifts will be able to manipulate looming changes to national heavy vehicle laws so they can work longer shifts - in some cases, more than 16 hours in a single day - in what police warn is a troubling backwards step for road safety. In WA it is possible to work for 17 hours on two consecutive days but no more than 11 hours the next day

[Geoff13]

Below is a collection of post that I made on Facebook to answer the question "So does this mean toll and linfox can pay owner drivers lower rates now, ?"

 

What it means is that they do not have to pay us more than they have to pay subcontract companies. Which then allows us to compete on service as we have always done. I will try to explain what went on and how it would have affected a section of the industry rather the whole industry.

 

 

 

The RSRT was set up in the dying days of the Gillard Government. It was a sweetheart deal which was meant to shore up support for Gillard over Rudd for the upcoming backstabbing session. As it was planned the union factions would support Gillard and the Unions mainly the TWU would end up with more members. This was all done using the fallacy of Road Safety.

 

 

 

Road Safety is a separate issue and should not be used to force one section of the industry out in favour of unionised companies as was tried here.

 

 

 

The RSO legislated a minimum pay rate for sub contractors in the following areas of the industry. Grocery/Supermarket deliveries on short haul and any long haul over 500klms. This in itself is a brilliant move and something that I have been calling for for 25 years.

 

 

 

However there is a but. The order then went on to define a subcontractor and this is where the unions get involved nd destroy the best thing to happen to the industry in my lifetime.

 

 

 

The RSRT definition of an owner driver was unclear and cause so much uncertainty it became unworkable.

 

 

 

In short according to the order a subcontractor was an owner operator or a direct dependent of and owner operator.

 

 

 

That means that as I drive my own truck I am a subby. As my daughter and son drive my other two trucks they would be subbies. This means we need to be paid the minimum rate.Now if I sack myself and my kids and put in unrelated drivers then I am no longer a subby and could be paid any rate not subject to the order.

 

 

 

This is blatant discrimination against Owner operators and small family companies in favour of larger and medium sized companies. We believe that it was done for the following reason. Small owner operators and families are in general NOT UNION MEMBERS. Medium and larger companies are generally Unionised. So again we saw it as discrimination against non union members.

 

 

 

They could have solved all the problems by simply saying that a subcontractor was anyone who carried freight but did not hold a prime contract. That is the true definition of a subbie and would have applied across the board for all subbies.

 

 

 

As for saying that now TOLLS and the LINFOX's of this world can now pay us crap money,that is true and nothing has changed. However now we have the choice of whether to do the job or not as we always have, it has not been taken away from us and handed to unionised companies.

 

 

 

I have more to say but have at me on that lot first.

 

As I said just a copy and paste of comments that I made. It would take me to long to retype it all on the ipad so I just did it this way.

 

I have long been an advocate of legislated freight rates however they need to be sustainable and valid for anyone with a truck not just a select group to make them totally noncompetitive.

 

When I first heard of the RSO I was over the moon but the devil was in the detail.

 

Ask any questions that you like and I shall try to answer them fully and honestly. I will admit to having been very vocal and outspoken against the RSO as written, and I have read all the orders through and through and had legal advice on some of the detail.

 

 

[Russ]

Meth.......2013 ??..........i'm 2016.

 

I'm having difficulty with your 17hrs etc........will chase up my logbook, all the info will be there, about extended hrs, and the like. Even so...17hrs solo...noway, but i'm checking.

 

 

[Russ]

[ATTACH]47897._xfImport[/ATTACH] From current logbook...note, this is for drivers under BFM regs.

 

( enables extended hrs )

 

[Methusala]

Check it out for yourself, please!

 

https://www.nhvr.gov.au/node/872

 

This is for WA as I stated.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Interesting that you would pick WA. Both WA and NT refuse to come under the banner of the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator citing that their unique operating conditions due to the distances and remoteness involved make it unworkable to abide by the National Guidelines. If you had ever spent time in a heavy vehicle on the road in these areas you would understand that they are probably correct.

 

Another thing is to operate for more than 12 hours, there are very strict guidelines to be followed and fatigue and health management strategies that must be followed.

 

On top of all of that it is interesting to check some of the statistics involving heavy vehicles accidents. Like the percentage of multiple vehicle accidents involving heavy vehicles where the heavy vehicle was not at fault.

 

 

[coljones]

the days of truckies ( HC and MC ) doing huge hrs is long gone. Transport inspectors are all over it, logbooks are the first thing you pass out your window, any....any errors you make in them....you get slammed, big time. Yes.....you can "fiddle".....a bit, however being caught out, and you will be at some point, the consequences will seriously dent your hip pocket.Transport coppers, have in place methods to track your days,hrs, movements. They know to the hr, how long it takes from "A....to B "..( town to town, city to city ) they open your logbook, do some simple maths, check "their" data, if the 2 don't gel...........good luck

 

Already trialling electronic logging in heavy vehicles, it's tamper proof, they pull you up, plugin their computor, download content.........everything, everything shows up. Another method also being trialled.....is "tracking". Both these methods will eventually be mandatory.

 

A growing number of companies are running 2 drivers per truck, allows long distance movements. Insurance Co's now wipe their hands of you, if accidents can be attributed to fatigue caused by excessive hrs, and/or "fudged" log books.

 

Sadly........the "big transport" companies, are strangling owner drivers, forcing many to "contract driving" to the big players, on big players terms. It's that......or no work.

 

Big "receivers" of freight, engage the big transport companies..........more and more. Smaller operators, owner drivers etc, in the main, are loosing the battle, and it's bloody wrong.

 

Same thing when big retailer opens store in country locale......the long established "local store" is lucky to survive. "loyalty" towards the local store, slowly deminishes.....we go for the cheaper supplier.....it's only a matter of time.

 

Read recently....woolies, are keen to setup their own pharmacies in their stores, they'll find a way to do it. ( goodbye local pharmacies ).......what's next.

But it doesn't stop a poorly paid trucky doing extra work as a night filler at Colesworths, a barrowman at Sydney markets, a flying instructor in RAA or GA, pumping gas etc. None of these activities show up in a driver's logbook nor in an instructor's log book either. I hear what Geoff is saying but I don't for a second believe that the big end of town is out to do anyone any favours - despite any procedural fairness requirements in Corporation Law (and you will need very, very deep pockets to bring a case and even deeper pockets to win.)

 

 

[Methusala]

Geoff, I chose to highlight WA only because I was challenged by Russ on my source of information. I agree with Col Jones that the Turnbull govt cynically used the truck drivers of this country to push their anti labour (small l) agenda. Meanwhile the slaughter continues. The recent accident in SA killing 4 people from the same family is a frightening example. I did not set out to misinform or argue against good reforms but the facts stand that heavy trucking personnel deserve civilised conditions of work.