Election 2016

[dutchroll]

So no examples of racism by Hanson, you can't because they don't exist, ok, I'll give you a task based on this statement;

Examples of her "beating up on Asians", thanks.

I'm not justifying FT calling Hanson supporters "ferals". I'm sure there are some smart and articulate people who voted for her, and probably some who are not. Same deal goes for the other parties too.

 

But to categorically state that racist or anti-Asian comments by Hanson don't exist is total BS.

 

In her maiden parliamentary speech she stated Australia was being "swamped" by Asians, and that they form ghettos and do not assimilate. Look it up in Hansard. She has done it again recently. If that's not beating up on Asians, what is? It's crap too. The Asians I've met assimilate fine. Many are just as happy eating a meat pie and watching the Swans play at the SCG as they are eating Singapore noodles. Many of them even have Aussie accents. As for "ghettos" - if you feel unsafe walking through Chinatown districts in any Australian city, you have paranoia issues you need to talk to someone about. Chatswood is heavily populated by Asians and has some of the best and most upmarket shopping here. You'd be seriously redefining the word to call it a ghetto.

 

In 2006 she stated that most South Africans coming to Australia were bringing diseases with them, especially HIV. That's just rubbish. She was clearly assuming most South African immigrants to Australia were black and impoverished (I suppose she figures immigrants are always black or brown) but the opposite is true. The South African immigrants were predominantly white.......and also disease free.

 

I don't think she's racist in the sense that she wants to go back to the 1800s and shoot aborigines for fun, or that she wants to round up Asians or Africans and put them in camps. But she's one of the most xenophobic politicians we've ever had. She seems racist to me, but even if I were to be generous and not hold that opinion of her, she's certainly an extreme xenophobe when it comes to anyone who doesn't have white skin, and totally unwilling to modify those types of comments when faced with contradicting evidence.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

After Pauline rose to prominence Abbott came up to QLD and visited her, he titled his report "the feral right", the libs must have listened to Abbott because they responded with offshore processing to keep them happy.

 

Pauline is a racist, if she wasn't why would so many people vote for her? She's just telling racists what they want to hear, the ferals aren't geniuses they don't like things that they don't understand.

 

 

[octave]

Name something racist that Pauline Hanson has said or done.

And while you're at it, explain to me why worldwide the Hansons, the Trumps and the Brexits are not only gaining ground, in many instances, by the numbers, they are overtaking.

Firstly I almost never use the term racist to describe anyone because I find it to be used in quite an intellectually lazy way.

 

As to Pauline, of course she was elected fairly and squarely and does represent the values and beliefs of a sector of Australian society. I or the media have every right to rigorously challenge and question those beliefs.

 

Ms Hanson went on to explain that her previous comments that Australia was in danger of being “swamped by Asians” were soft compared to what was happening now.

 

“Look at your housing, every time you go to an auction in Melbourne it’s lined up full of Asians and Australians can’t even get foot in the door to buy houses in their own country,” she said.

 

When asked whether Asians were Australians as well, she said “are they?”.

 

“There’s no identification,” she said.

 

(full transcript Pauline Hanson says her party members ‘have Asian wives’

 

I am not going to call this racism, that is a matter of the dictionary definitions, however I can tell you why I view her negatively.

 

I have been a musician and music teacher for most of my working life and have always had great relationships with colleagues and students from all over the world. When I read the above quote first I thought about my favourite student at the moment. Tiann is 12, she is extremely intelligent, has a fantastic sense of humour and plays a pretty wicked saxophone. Tiann was born in Australia to Chinese parents. Tiann is Australian but according to Pauline -

 

"When asked whether Asians were Australians as well, she said “are they?”.

 

“There’s no identification,” she said.

 

I just don't understand what Pauline means by “There’s no identification,”

 

Another friend of mine is Hugh Hugh was born in China but from the age of 14 was educated in Australia and is now an engineer. A few years ago Hugh got married to a Chinese woman, in fact we helped her in the process of getting a visa by declaring that the marriage is genuine. I guess Pauline might think that I am some kind of traitor by helping them live in Australia. Oh no, I just had a thought they are expecting a baby AND they just bought a house.

 

In terms of the real or perceived rise of the Trump, Hansen type politician it does remain to be seen whether they ultimately succeed. It is extremely unlikely that Trump will deliver what he is promising but I suspect that people who are frustrated are attracted to someone who talks like they do even if their promises are impractical or would have negative consequences. If Trump could deport all those "nasty Mexicans" I don't think the frustrated struggling folks lives would suddenly improve. If in this country we stopped immigration would battlers suddenly be able to buy a nice house?

 

As far as I can see the common factor amongst many of the supporters of these movements is dissatisfaction. Whilst I acknowledge that not everyone is having a great life when I examine my life I have little to complain about. My parents grew up in the UK in quite poor circumstances, they emigrated to Australia, worked very hard, long hours 48 hours a week and were able to buy a house and car and later travel. When I left school the unemployment rate was about 10% (and much more for youths), my first home loan was at 16.5% but I could still own 2 cars and travel and I can afford to fly (as a teen I never thought that could ever happen). My father's lost his job (late in is working life) because manufacturing was moved overseas as the nature of our economy changed Likewise I can see my area of work diminishing. My son owns his own company in the new areas of the economy. I can say that none of the generations of my family feel negatively affected by Asian immigration or are angry enough about their lives to support Pauline's statements.

 

Bit of a rant but thems my thoughts

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You can imagine how segregated the ONP meetings are, the blokes lining up to kiss pauline's asse and the wives busy making food chatting about desperate housewives and how much they "not into politics but like what pauline saying"

 

 

[fly_tornado]

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[dutchroll]

“Look at your housing, every time you go to an auction in Melbourne it’s lined up full of Asians and Australians can’t even get foot in the door to buy houses in their own country,” she said.When asked whether Asians were Australians as well, she said “are they?”.

 

“There’s no identification,” she said.

.....and therein lies the problem when you have someone in a position of power who has what we might politely call an "unsophisticated" way of looking at things.

 

In Pauline Hanson's world, everything is either black or it's white. In the real world there are many shades of grey. So if Asian looking people are queuing up to buy a house at auction, then by default they cannot be Australian in her eyes. Except the likelihood is that many of them - quite possibly all of them - actually are, and they would be perfectly entitled like any other aussie to bid on a house. The majority of Asian-looking people I know are born and bred here. They are not caucasian, but they are Australian.

 

However Pauline doesn't appear to have the capacity to look at anything in a more sophisticated and realistic way, and that's a great concern when it comes to giving someone the power to pass or reject national laws.

 

 

[old man emu]

It is interesting to observe the reactions of people to the presence of ethnic concentrations. I live and work in southwest Sydney and have done so for nearly 25 years. When I arrived in my local area, the population was overwhelmingly European with some northwestern Mediterranean people. In the past 10 years, and more so past 5 years, the semi-rural nature of the area has been obliterated by housing development. It seems that this housing has been occupied by large numbers of non-Europeans so much so that 'I spy ..." has been replaced by "Spot the Aussie" as a travel distraction for kids.

 

The arrival of these people has markedly altered the social behaviour in shops and public places. No more "excuse me", "pardon me", or "I'm sorry". It's push, shove and "me first". That's why people in cities rankle at the numbers of, dare I say it, people of non-christian based societies, flooding into the city and suburbs.

 

The worst part of the problem is that we stereotype all people, and as an inbuilt animal survival action are prepared to fight off those not of our own type. How many of us have got to know someone from one of the "new-comer" groups and found them to be really nice people and developed friendships? We must all, black, white and brindle, be prepared to come together to form a new People. We have to decide on the personality of this new People will be, but that new personality should be based on respect for the responsible exercise of freedoms and personal equality free from any pigeon-holing. Jack is the equal of Jill regardless of ethnicity, spiritual alignment and gender.

 

OME

 

 

[fly_tornado]

living in sydeny sounds like ... fun

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I am told that there is no word for "thank you" in Hindi. I assume it is true. Anyway, I feel embarrassed when my Indian friends call out "check" in a restaurant or "hotel" in a taxi with no please or thank you. I just have to get over it.

 

 

[Bruce]

I'm a Malthusian. Anybody who can do arithmetic has to be one too. My problem with Pauline is that she has given us "sustainable population" people a bad name.

 

Tim Flannery once said that the sustainable population for Australia was 2 million. But there was nobody devoted to this issue to vote for last election.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I realise we have an awful lot of desert, but I think Flannery says a lot of careless things on many subjects. 2 million is ridiculously tiny for a country capable of intensive modern agriculture with the fertile and arable land we have along our whole east cost, the southern coast, and south-western coast, stretching a couple of hundred km inland in many areas.

 

As far as non-arable land goes, it also depends a lot on what you do with it.

 

 

[M61A1]

Maybe he's correct if we use only the green approved organic non-GM crops, instead of the GM crops that have been feeding the ever expanding population of the world for some years now....maybe he's just a bell-end?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

This year's algae outbreaks aren't getting the media attention they deserve but they are there. Flannery was talking about restoring Australia to its original sustainable state not the fast track to disaster we are on at the moment. 100 years from now most of the groundwater on the eastern seaboard will have some sort of pollution from CSG industry.

 

Are toxic algal blooms the new normal for Australia's major rivers?

 

 

[Bruce]

Australian soil is the poorest in the world. It needs imported phosphorous which is applied with imported diesel.

 

Sure we can support many more than 2 million when use imported non-renewable inputs. But what if you were unable to use these things? The yields of the average farm would fall so much that I think the 2 million is correct.

 

But as a species, we are too stupid to worry about the long term for anything.

 

And FT is right about aquifers. Just google up the Arabian aquifer, the Mumbai aquifer and the American midwest aquifer and you will see that the beginning of the end is underway right now.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I don't quite share those doomsday views, though I agree CSG mining is a big problem.

 

I've never seen any evidence or research that the "2 million" figure is anything other than a bit of a wild stab in the dark. It would be interesting to know what assumptions it is based on.

 

I do however agree with you that as a species we ignore long term problems. It's not because we're stupid. It's because we're broadly selfish. Not necessarily from a day to day perspective (before anyone takes personal offence), but because we tend to put long term things in the "too hard, I'll worry about it later, I have more important things affecting me right now" basket then forget about it until it comes back to bite us. And bite us it usually does.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Nonsense. If you think we can't sustain 100 million then you haven't travelled in Australia or Asia.

 

 

[octave]

Nonsense. If you think we can't sustain 100 million then you haven't travelled in Australia or Asia.

 

I guess the population Australia can support depends on what standard of living we wish to have, yes we could have a population of 100 million but probably not whilst retaining our quarter acre blocks.

 

 

[Bruce]

In South Australia a long time ago, farmers were leaving their close-in farms to clear land further out. The reason ( which they didn't know) was that the original phosphorous was used up by the first 3 crops. The original phosphorous was that existent in 30 feet of soil , and brought to the surface by tree-roots and leaf litter.

 

It would be interesting to see some testing done to see just what would occur if you didn't use any non-renewable resources ( you would need to go for some years) to farm. Does anybody know of such a research project? On a very small scale you can use compost and human waste, but this can't work on a big scale.

 

 

[SDQDI]

It depends a lot on soil type Bruce.

 

We haven't used any phosphorus for decades here. The main thing we add is nitrogen generally by adding urea. We minimise that by crop rotation and you could go without it but it would be a lot more work and wouldn't be financially viable. There are improvements being made in different areas though, some are piping tractor exhaust through their implements and putting it back into the ground and some claim a 100% reduction of need for fertiliser. I think it is only slowly taking on though as us farmers are generally cautious and like to know something is a sure thing before spending a lot of money to get it. Of course there are those who jump in with both boots but they generally go broke quicker.....

 

Minimising the need for fertilisers is in the back of most farmers minds as if we can get the same yield with less inputs it helps our hip pocket.

 

As for my thoughts on the two million figure, I think that must be based on just a gatherers sort of lifestyle ie just scavenging without even attempting to grow stuff....

 

 

[Bruce]

Yes you are right SDQDI. My experience is in South Australia and I know that there are volcanic soils around which are much better.

 

I'm curious about the theory of the tractor exhaust idea. Some CO2, carbon soot, water vapour and some oxides of nitrogen.

 

Those oxides of nitrogen would be good stuff I reckon, is this the theory?

 

 

[Yenn]

Whatever fertiliser you use depends upon what you are growing. I would guess that SDQDI is growing grass for stock feed. many years ago but within my working life we grew grain, vegetables and grazed animals without artificial fertilisers. The grain had long straw and that was used as bedding under cattle and pigs. This produced a natural type of compost. It was labour intensive and yields were lower than todays, but it used a good bye product. The boffins then decided to breed short straw grains and burn the stubble, consequently there was a net loss of nutrients and also humus, which affected soil structure.

 

The first tome I saw artifial fertiliser applied to the land I thought it was amazing, but funnily enough the cattle tended to graze the un fertilised areas in preference. Now of course the whole industry relies on artificials and it would be extremely difficult to reverse the tide.

 

 

[SDQDI]

No I am not in the stock feed game, although my in laws are in to stock so I have spent time doing that.

 

Up until two years ago we had always been grain farmers, we used to grow Corn followed immediately by wheat and then immediately followed by soyabeans and then a short fallow back to corn again. That is on the irrigated country and then the dry land has had sorghum in the mix. In the last two years we have slowly started to change though mainly because of financial reasons. The price of corn hasn't really got any better than it was 20 years ago but costs are slowly increasing, cotton has been making big inroads in our immediate area but we waited till a fair few locals tried it before we decided to dip our toes in. So two years ago we still had a majority of corn with a small cotton trial and the season just gone we had no corn and more cotton.

 

And now our dry land rotation is half cotton half sorghum followed immediately by chickpeas and then long fallow back to sorghum/cotton. It is the first time I've grown chickpeas but soyabeans just were not good enough on the dry land and as they are a summer crop they took up land that could grow a more profitable sorghum/cotton crop. We do need to have a legume crop though as it certainly helps reduce fertiliser inputs so chickpeas are getting a go, their price is also fairly good at the minute so if that changes we will reassess lol the joys of farming:thumb up:

 

Sorry Bruce I don't know the exact science behind it all, being a very conservative farmer I am holding off a year or two yet but from what I have seen it can't do any harm. I guess the 50k is just a bit hard to part with to start with:whistling:

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Latest research is also showing that rain follows the plough, as they said in South Australia. Minute organic particles causing an increase in rainfall. Amazing but true.

 

 

[old man emu]

With the increasing Arab population in Australia chickpeas would seem to be a crop with expanding potential. (And that comment in in no way meant to be hummus.)

 

OME

 

 

[fly_tornado]

OME I never thought you would be welcoming halal foods, I'll have to report you to the party, sorry.