The Tax Office and Terrorism

[Bruce]

To begin, I am NOT asserting that our Tax Office is a terrorist organization. But here's what has got me thinking... This couple at our gym had a message on their phone to ring the tax office at the number provided. When they rang, they were told that an audit of their returns showed they owed $1400 and they had better send the money forthwith and that in the meantime the police had their names on an arrest list.

 

They were seriously distressed, but having a wider group to speak to, they found out ( before sending the money) that it was a scam and nothing to do with the real tax office or the real police.

 

But here's what I reckon... this scam has its impact because the population is actually afraid of the tax office.

 

I don't think they should live in this fear.

 

 

[dutchroll]

You could probably make this argument with many different organisations, regarding the fear of being pursued for money.

 

It is a bit paranoid and naive of them. Government organisations - in fact just about any organisation at all - who think you owe them money always send correspondence through the mail first, usually numerous times. Arrest warrants are granted by a Court, normally for failing to attend to answer charges you've already been notified of.

 

There are so many red flags that they were being scammed I'm a bit surprised they got so worked up about it.......unless of course they have actually been doing some dodgy tax stuff!

 

 

[Bruce]

They really were frightened and there is nothing they did to deserve that. There would be many who succumb to that scam, I know of 2 others who have been the target.

 

In the two other cases, it was seen as amusingly silly for the reasons dutch set out, but in this case it was an elderly couple, not mentally tough or well educated or wise in the ways of modern telephone scammers.

 

My contention is that the Tax office should do some advertising to explain how they would never behave like that and distance themselves from such tactics. Alas I get the impression that government agencies are becoming more arrogant as time goes by.

 

And the scammers actually gave a number to call back! This should have made some sort of lead for the cops, but I don't think they take much interest in this type of crime.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well that's fair enough. The elderly can be particularly vulnerable to these things. There has been a bit of publicity about this scam but it's entirely possible that many haven't gotten wind of it.

 

I know there are ongoing police investigations in several states because demanding money by impersonating the ATO is considered pretty serious fraud (and the scammers have been very successful in several cases).

 

The ATO did actually distance themselves from it here and explained that "cold calling" is not what they do, but you could argue they need to re-publicise it.

 

ATO warns of aggressive tax scam

 

 

[Bruce]

That Tax office stuff hasn't mollified me one bit. Firstly, it is unclear what on earth is meant by a "cold call". Secondly, they confirmed that they do in fact telephone people. Thirdly, this was published in the last place that vulnerable people would see it.

 

Here's what I reckon... making a career of demanding money with menaces is very bad for your character, and this is apparent in their response. Gosh they were bloody well aware of this scam, yet even people like me heard about it first from victims.

 

 

[Yenn]

What did you expect? Did you think the tax ofice should have sent all us oldies a letter saying they dont issue threats via telephone.

 

How old do you have to be to be soo stupid that you get sucked in by that type of scam?

 

I get them all the time from supposedly Apple and Paypal. I thought we were supposed to get wiser as we got older, in fact for years I have been saying if you don't get wiser, why get older?

 

 

[Bruce]

Yes I think they should have advertised in the Messenger and made it clear that any contact from them will be by letter at first, and that people should be aware of such scams. They should tell people contacting the tax office to check the phone number because the scammers substitute their own.

 

And I think they should be sacked if they write anything which is less than respectful and polite. I'm willing to act as a consultant to judge if their correspondence merits the sack.

 

 

[dutchroll]

.....it was published in some of the most widely read newspapers in the country: News Ltd papers. I didn't say highest quality papers, just the most read. By pensioners particularly.

 

Short of taking out prime-time TV ads I don't know what else they should do. But if they were to spend $100k of my taxes on TV ads when it was already in a number of newspapers I think I'd probably find that objectionable.

 

We've had letters from the ATO and they've always been polite. Not that there are many polite ways to say "you owe us money", but they were as polite as I would expect. I've had far worse from other organisations including a number of "FIRST AND FINAL REMINDER" letters (yes in CAPS and underlined) arriving 2 days after the due date threatening interest charges, debt collection, etc etc just because the original invoice got buried in the mound of paperwork on my desk.

 

I think to say the ATO "demands money with menaces" is a bit over the top. They are, after all, a tax collection agency. It is their job to ask you to pay up when they think you owe it to them, as much as I hate that.

 

"Cold calling" is when you are called "out of the blue", or unsolicited without any previous contact. The ATO do not do this.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I got "scammed", emptied my bank account, ( luckily not a lot was in it) while in NZ organizing my late brothers affairs, Tax return company told my wife to add my bank interest onto her return.

 

The Australian taxation department then fined me hundreds of $, plus a penalty of the contents of the bank account that had not put the interest on my none existent tax return .

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

The answer I got when I wrote a perfectly polite question to the tax office about my whether my mother's fees at the hospice were tax deductible or not was a classic. Amazingly, the financial office at the ( SA government run) home for incurables could not tell me the answer. They said I had to ask the ATO.

 

The author of the reply must have been to classes in how to write a rude and arrogant letter, or else he had an amazing natural talent.

 

The answer was 'yes' but it was put so nastily that I am still filled with anger after ten years. Public servants? Bullsh...t.

 

 

[Bruce]

I reckon the above story qualifies me to sack Tax office letter-writers for being less than respectful and polite.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I did not get Any correspondence at all, Being overseas, came back to find out THEY (ato) have stolen my money from a bank account that I hadn't authorise the bank to release the funds.

 

The NZ government I am pleased to say helped me, while unemployed to get around some of the bureaucratic lunacy that exists in disposing of all the assets and move the proceeds offshore.

 

The Australian bureaucracy refused to allow me to reregister my late mothers vehicle without her signature, but after driving it to the scrapyard had no problems when handing in the licence plates.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Yep space, they can do things "legally' which if anybody else did then it would be criminal. As I said, their basic job is demanding money with menaces. Dutch thinks this is unfair criticism, while I say its just an honest description of what they do. Why else would anybody send them their money? In many cases, they go broke from the tax demands.

 

I say, blame your local MP, regardless of the party.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

Bruce, ask me about my ATO experience next time we meet....

 

 

[Bruce]

Today there was some good news . An Indian man has been arrested and jailed for making threatening calls impersonating the tax office. The police said more than $50,000 was involved, so there sure are some easy pickings out there.

 

I still reckon the tax office could have done more.

 

 

[spacesailor]

They DO, do more, $50,000 is a pitence to what the Ato gets away with.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[M61A1]

Yep space, they can do things "legally' which if anybody else did then it would be criminal. As I said, their basic job is demanding money with menaces. Dutch thinks this is unfair criticism, while I say its just an honest description of what they do. Why else would anybody send them their money? In many cases, they go broke from the tax demands.I say, blame your local MP, regardless of the party.

You haven't dealt with the Child Support Agency have you? They make the ATO (and Hitler's SS) look like amateurs.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Yep space, they can do things "legally' which if anybody else did then it would be criminal. As I said, their basic job is demanding money with menaces. Dutch thinks this is unfair criticism, while I say its just an honest description of what they do.

I don't think that accurately represents my position on the ATO generally.

 

However in my experience, they only demand money from you when you haven't paid the tax you're supposed to pay in accordance with the taxation laws of Australia. Just as you'll still get fined for speeding by the police despite not seeing the speed sign, they don't accept ignorance as an excuse. That's not to say I agree with our tax laws. Far from it! But they are what they are.

 

Incidentally, when private companies consider that you owe them money, they can get very nasty about it too, totally legally.

 

 

[spacesailor]

M61A1

 

That's a yes on the CSA, but the shoe was on the other foot & they came to our aid to fight with the Maori Affairs in NZ, when my son-in-law took my eldest grandson back to NZ without even having any papers, he got thru the customs

 

and even the airline didn't bother about a man with a child & no papers.

 

Neither the police or the fed's had a clue of what to do. But a call to his finance company (car) found him in less than 24 hours.

 

DR . The tax I was supposed to pay was tacked onto my wife's tax return by a tax agent, and no refund was given for over-payment

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Enforcing unjust laws must do you moral damage. You would have to find another job or become hardened. That is why it didn't occur to them to reassure the potential victims of this scam in an effective way. I reckon they quite like the way their name inspires fear.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Cost them lots in the end, as I left all the bro's assets in the NZ banks & the Aussie bogyman can't touch it.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[dutchroll]

DR . The tax I was supposed to pay was tacked onto my wife's tax return by a tax agent, and no refund was given for over-payment

 

spacesailor

If you lodge joint returns that doesn't surprise me. They'll take the tax you both owe as a "total" and probably wouldn't care which of you pay it. If you have paid it twice, ie your wife paid your tax and you paid it too, then they owe you money, no question about it. The accountant most definitely should've sorted all that out! I've overpaid tax before and got it back. An adjustment is done in the following tax year.

 

My wife overpays tax sometimes, because she is billed tax in her quarterly BAS based on "projected" income for the next quarter. If she happens to earn less that quarter, then the difference is reconciled and refunded at annual tax time. The flipside is that if she earns more than projected, she gets a bill! It has always worked so far. The ATO have always refunded what they owe her.

 

 

[Bruce]

Spacesailor, be very careful if you ever bring anything back. I know a guy who went to jail for bringing back some overseas money and not giving the taxman his cut. In Bathurst jail he was deprived of his prescription drugs for a kidney condition.

 

The fact that no Australian infrastructure was used to earn that money and it was brought back to provide employment here in Australia cut no ice. The first judge said that this was not a jailing offence, but the taxman appealed the community service sentence. The victim was already bankrupted and he couldn't defend the appeal and went to jail for 18 months.

 

 

[spacesailor]

No worries there's nothing left for the Aussie Terror office to get at, long gone, the grand-kids spent it well.

 

I much prefer to give it away than let the Terror Office get one centine of it.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

Now the terror-office is going to be scrutinized by the government,

 

Who will win, that.s the question. The terror- office doesn,t even need a search warrant to invade your home or busines office.

 

YOU are guilty , not iinnocent by their definition.

 

I hope the terror-office loses this fight & is broken into three parts.

 

spacesailor