Abuse in the military

[pmccarthy]

We have a story in the news at present about people who were sexually abused in the military. People have come forward to say they were black-balled with shoe polish, had their heads shoved down the toilet and were b.ggered with a broom handle.

 

Ok, the broom handle thing is sexual abuse and I reckon I would be traumatised too. But I have been black balled, had the toilet treatment and never thought of it as legally redressable abuse. I complained at the time and was told to harden up, which I did.

 

In the mines, when someone was getting married they were shaved (yes there) with a cut throat razor and had slogans painted all over their bodies with Ghentian violet, which lasts a couple of weeks. It was a big joke. In the cage going underground the young blokes were often grabbed by old perves, but we shut up and took it.

 

So, my question is, is my experience unusual? Or can I conclude that nearly everyone went through this back then (at least in the 60s and 70s) and learned to keep on smiling? If so, are these people giving evidence today just wimps, or just the tip of an iceberg? My wife says it is all abuse and the abusers should be prosecuted. I think we will have half the country in gaol!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Ask yourself if you'd grab a young person's genitals, without their consent. If the answer is "no", which it would be for 99.9% of the population, then I don't think we'd have half the country in jail.

 

I guess some people handled it better than others - but I wonder how many lives it ruined, how it affected people's minds and even whether it led to some using the same behaviour on others down the track.

 

I think the people giving evidence, far from being wimps, are true blue heroes. It takes more courage to stand up and be a whistle blower than it does to say nothing.

 

 

[M61A1]

We have a story in the news at present about people who were sexually abused in the military. People have come forward to say they were black-balled with shoe polish, had their heads shoved down the toilet and were b.ggered with a broom handle.

Ok, the broom handle thing is sexual abuse and I reckon I would be traumatised too. But I have been black balled, had the toilet treatment and never thought of it as legally redressable abuse. I complained at the time and was told to harden up, which I did.

 

In the mines, when someone was getting married they were shaved (yes there) with a cut throat razor and had slogans painted all over their bodies with Ghentian violet, which lasts a couple of weeks. It was a big joke. In the cage going underground the young blokes were often grabbed by old perves, but we shut up and took it.

 

So, my question is, is my experience unusual? Or can I conclude that nearly everyone went through this back then (at least in the 60s and 70s) and learned to keep on smiling? If so, are these people giving evidence today just wimps, or just the tip of an iceberg? My wife says it is all abuse and the abusers should be prosecuted. I think we will have half the country in gaol!

While I had never seen or even heard of sexual abuse while in the ADF, there was plenty of behaviour that isn't currently tolerated. Usually as some kind of punishment for letting your side down, on the positive side, it did tend to get rid of those not up to service life or get them working that bit harder.

 

I would never tolerate the sexual abuse, but I have to say that their current screening processes does seem to have missed a whole bunch of whiney little bitches that really have no place in a defence force.

 

I think that you are on the money PM, sexual abuse aside, we have a bunch of whiners in defence (some, not all, and probably not just defence) that would be better suited to doing paperwork at Centrelink, but then that might expose them to other inappropriate behaviour that might scar them.

 

 

[Yenn]

As an ex serviceman I worry about what we have in the ADF. Too much political correctness and girlie behavour. I never thought that the sharp end of the military was the correct place for women and having them there seems to be lowering the capability of the services.

 

 

[M61A1]

As an ex serviceman I worry about what we have in the ADF. Too much political correctness and girlie behavour. I never thought that the sharp end of the military was the correct place for women and having them there seems to be lowering the capability of the services.

I have no problem with women in the defence force. The US and Israel do it just fine. But here in Australia, I have noticed that often, instead of employing capable women, we have pandered to the feminists and lowered the bar.

 

We need soldiers (with no discrimination or consideration for their sex), not men AND women, and any soldier that feel that the rules (for soldiering) need to be relaxed so that they feel better about things, probably should consider other employment.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Obviously those in the ADF need to be tougher minded than your average economist or waiter. However there's a substantial difference between a bit of hazing and being raped by older recruits. And it sounds like the senior officers at the two bases being investigated either had no idea what was going on in their command, or had the same attitude that it hardens people up.

 

It wasn't acceptable then and it's not now. Still, if you think it's ok, you could always do a stretch in prison and share a cell with Big Bubba who likes to play Daddy.

 

 

[M61A1]

Obviously those in the ADF need to be tougher minded than your average economist or waiter. However there's a substantial difference between a bit of hazing and being raped by older recruits. And it sounds like the senior officers at the two bases being investigated either had no idea what was going on in their command, or had the same attitude that it hardens people up.

It wasn't acceptable then and it's not now. Still, if you think it's ok, you could always do a stretch in prison and share a cell with Big Bubba who likes to play Daddy.

Rape is rape, and should never be acceptable. I suspect though, when I was in, that if it had happened to someone, and it was made known to others, the perpetrator might have found themselves on the end of some fairly rough justice.

 

 

[Marty_d]

We can only hope. One common thread with the victim's testimony so far though is that they were all too scared to say anything, due to threats from the perpetrators that they'd be dishonourably discharged, or worse. One even told his chaplain, who advised him NOT to tell anyone else, or he might be killed.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

In the cage going underground the young blokes were often grabbed by old perves, but we shut up and took it. So, my question is, is my experience unusual?

You should not have done that to the young blokes.

 

 

[spacesailor]

It was called "initiation",

 

used on most apprentices,

 

spacesailor

 

'

 

 

[dutchroll]

In my early Air Force officer training days we copped quite a bit of what I would term abuse, but none of it was sexual. Some of the physical and psychological abuse was pretty bad though. One senior culprit in particular was hated by our course. I remember meeting him in later years and I consistently refused to have anything to do with him. Most of my other course mates I think had a pretty similar opinion. He was a sadistic ****, and I don't use that word lightly (I reserve it for the lowest of the low). Sure, a lot of the harsh training was to condition us physically and psychologically for a combat role and I don't think any of us had any permanent effects from it, but he took it a number of steps too far.

 

My wife in her early doctoring years was in the military and based near a certain major military training organisation. Although she refuses to mention any details, I know she experienced many female trainees walking into her consulting room shattered over various forms of abuse, psychological, physical, and sexual. She was and still is bound by medical confidentiality and would be struck off the medical register (i.e., barred from ever practising again) if she were to speak about it without the express permission of those involved. They were never willing to do this even when urged to report it, as they were absolutely scared sh**less of the ramifications, not to mention that it would certainly end their career they'd worked so hard to kick-start before it had even begun. So it was all suffered in silence and I imagine often still is.

 

I have no problem with women in the military. I was around when the first female military pilots were inducted here and knew them reasonably well. The vast majority of the problems (and there were a number) we had with that were directly caused by the attitudes of the guys, not the girls. The girls just wanted to be left alone to do their stuff. I observed some atrocious behaviour and attitudes from some guys which was completely unjustified.

 

Of the many times in both military and commercial aviation I have thought "I seriously hope I don't ever fly with you again, because you are an absolute d**khead", not once has it been with one of the girls. Their skill levels vary as do those of the men, but I have found them equal to the task and very professional, which is totally unsurprising.