Do your bit for justice

[Guest Nightmare1]

In Qld, we had a few cases of minor offenders, fare evasion and unpaid tickets, being put into secure custody, resulting in some tragic stuff. One of these people was actually murdered. That spurred Qld Corrections to change this policy so these offenders were either placed in low security facilities such as prison farms or community service. Of course, if they keep thumbing their noses at the low security options, there is no where else to go except secure custody.

 

The big issue at the moment are parolee's being returned to prison for rather minor breaches of their parole conditions. This follows some horrible incidents involving criminals out on parole, the most famous being the murder of Jill Maher in Vic, by someone out on parole. So the response is appropriate in my opinion. Parole is a privilege not a right.

 

 

[biggles]

. (he claimed the copper lied).

There are very few guilty persons in jail . They have all been 'done over' by the system ! .... Bob

[facthunter]

When I went through school the "nasties" got to see prison bars but from which side was not always predictable. The put in, or the putters in. Lora norder gets votes and rates of incarceration increase all the time. At over $100 thousand cost annually for each person and not much attempt to rehabilitate, it's a disgrace. If they come back it's good for the business .Nev

 

 

[octave]

When I went through school the "nasties" got to see prison bars but from which side was not always predictable. The put it or the putters in. Lora norder gets votes and rates of incarceration increase all the time. At over $100 thousand cost annually for each person and not much attempt to rehabilitate, it's a disgrace. If they come back it's good for the business .Nev

I wonder if we are doing the best we can with our prison system or if perhaps we ought to be examining systems from overseas which are more successful and efficient - Why Norway's Prison System Is So Successful

 

 

[M61A1]

I have experienced cops bald faced lying in front of a magistrate personally. That and another incident have done away with any respect for them. I saw a while ago, a push for assaults on police to be treated more harshly than assaults on citizens, I think it should only be acceptable when they treat perjury by the police as a more serious offence.

 

 

[Camel]

I have experienced cops bald faced lying in front of a magistrate personally. That and another incident have done away with any respect for them. I saw a while ago, a push for assaults on police to be treated more harshly than assaults on citizens, I think it should only be acceptable when they treat perjury by the police as a more serious offence.

Yes I agree and believe when cops lie or worse still involve themselves in criminal activity such as drug dealing the penalties need to be very, very severe as they have betrayed the trust placed upon them to protect the community.

 

 

[facthunter]

Lost all faith in them, I'm afraid. just keep away from them and the Courts, and your life will have some quality. Nev

 

 

[Birdseye]

I cannot fathom the logic in increased penalties for assaults on the police. They have tazers, batons, pepper spray and guns. However, as joe public I can't carry anything without the risk of being charged for carrying an offensive weapon, even though it would be for defensive purposes.

 

I do though support additional protection from assault on ambos, firies and similar.

 

 

[onetrack]

No-one stole because they were the ultimate socialists and shared everything

A blatant error, Kaz. Yes, the Abo's were socialists in their original native state, and they still are today. However, they also specialised in stealing from other adjoining tribes at the earliest opportunity. They stole their women, they stole their food supplies, and they stole their weapons and tools.

A very large percentage of Aboriginals are thieves by genetic disposition. They can't help themselves, they get a real adrenalin kick from stealing.

 

They are also viciously violent people, and opportunists. They will attack anyone they see weaker than themselves - be it women or drunks.

 

The violence they utilise in inter-tribal and family disputes is testament to that.

 

Security people in shopping centres are totally familiar with regular Aboriginal thieving - and a certain percentage of it, is organised gang thieving.

 

In many other cases, it's just plain opportunistic. When you see police stationed permanently near the shopping centre checkouts, as in Alice Springs, you get some idea of the enormity of the "Aboriginal theft problem".

 

You need to get out more and experience some real Aboriginal violence on your person such as being mugged for your handbag, or bashed for your car - as multiple numbers of my friends have been.

 

You probably also need to have your home gutted and trashed by Aboriginals, as they have done to members of my family.

 

Funnily enough, all those friends and family members previously had time for Aboriginals - now they have no time for them whatsoever.

 

These people have not advanced or evolved one tiny step from their stone-age attitudes in the last 200+ years - despite 100's of billions of our dollars going to support them, in every way possible.

 

They are simply in jail in higher numbers than the rest of the population, because if you are going to be the victim of a crime, it will more than likely be an Aboriginal person perpetrating it.

 

There is absolutely no justification in changing our legal and justice system to stop jailing criminals of a certain race, simply because they are over-represented in our jails. They are there, simply because they commit regular crimes, and they are repeat offenders.

 

The drive and will to improve your character and outlook and behaviour comes from within - and no amount of do-gooders saying we are being horrible to those poor Aboriginals will ever help them improve their atrocious, anti-social behaviour - unless the Aboriginal involved is prepared to change his/her ways and become a useful, contributing member of our society.

 

They have little work ethic, because of their nomadic ancestry. I have numerous close relatives working in the mining and oil and gas fields, and the employment deals to get more Abo workers onto the job, are nothing but constant, repeat failure. They have a poor grasp of the concepts of time, reliability, and honesty. In other words, they are largely a dead loss as employees.

 

Only when the Aboriginals step up and take personal responsibility for their atrocious levels of errant behaviour, will they make the first step towards evolving into useful members of our 21st century society in Australia.

 

 

[Yenn]

Oh Dear I have opened a can of worms here. Interesting to see the esponses, but I havn't seen one which mentions the many aboriginals who fit in with our culture. I worked on construction for years and we always had a high proportion of aboriginal and islanders working.

 

On one of my jobs in Collinsville we were dubbed the black and white minstrels. They were all good workers and no different from the white blokes, in fact they were way better than some.

 

It just seems to have all gone downhill in the last few years. The are even attacking their own at the school at Aurukun.

 

Can anyone show us how the situation could be resolved. I certainly don't have any idea of what to do.

 

 

[Camel]

Everybody is responsible for their action no mater what RACE , RELIGION , COLOUR , EMPLOYMENT or INTOXICATION of drugs or alcohol as there is no reason to blame, treat others how you would like to be treated.

 

 

[M61A1]

Everybody is responsible for their action no mater what RACE , RELIGION , COLOUR , EMPLOYMENT or INTOXICATION of drugs or alcohol as there is no reason to blame, treat others how you would like to be treated.

Or you could go with the Church of Satan concept of "Treat others how they treat you"

 

 

[Garfly]

Good to hear that story Yenn ... puts me in mind of the recent Australian Story on ABC TV 'One of the Mob':

 

Australian Story :: One Of The Mob

 

It's about the filmmaker David Batty who, with an aboriginal colleague, made the hilarious movie 'Bush Mechanics'. His new mini series is called 'Black As'

 

New series Black As shines light on daily life in remote NT community

 

Sounds like a hoot. Four good mates on a comedy adventure around Arnhem Land.

 

One of them's a white dude who grew up in the community and speaks the local Yolngu language.

 

What a vastly different truth about 'them' that that guy's privy to, compared to the rest of his race.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't have any answers, but a few trips I have done in the last few years leads me to believe we haven't made many gains in this area. I picked fruit with them as a a 17 year old, and no problems. Alcohol , petrol sniffing, white mens $#1T food. general sense of dispossession, and hopelessness, doesn't help the situation. I personally TRY to treat all people with respect. At least they don't want to cut my head off like some people are inclined to do with non believers of their view of things. I don't think OUR society is so flash either. Based on conspicuous over consumption of junk mostly and a useless house that takes you most of your life to pay for. You are flat out finding a river you can safely drink water from here now. and we have cut down most of the trees in my lifetime. Imagine how lovely this country was before we arrived not that long ago We have to start showing some respect for it.Nev

 

 

[ev17ifly2]

A blatant error, Kaz. Yes, the Abo's were socialists in their original native state, and they still are today. However, they also specialised in stealing from other adjoining tribes at the earliest opportunity. They stole their women, they stole their food supplies, and they stole their weapons and tools.

A very large percentage of Aboriginals are thieves by genetic disposition. They can't help themselves, they get a real adrenalin kick from stealing.

 

They are also viciously violent people, and opportunists. They will attack anyone they see weaker than themselves - be it women or drunks.

 

The violence they utilise in inter-tribal and family disputes is testament to that.

 

Security people in shopping centres are totally familiar with regular Aboriginal thieving - and a certain percentage of it, is organised gang thieving.

 

In many other cases, it's just plain opportunistic. When you see police stationed permanently near the shopping centre checkouts, as in Alice Springs, you get some idea of the enormity of the "Aboriginal theft problem".

 

You need to get out more and experience some real Aboriginal violence on your person such as being mugged for your handbag, or bashed for your car - as multiple numbers of my friends have been.

 

You probably also need to have your home gutted and trashed by Aboriginals, as they have done to members of my family.

 

Funnily enough, all those friends and family members previously had time for Aboriginals - now they have no time for them whatsoever.

 

These people have not advanced or evolved one tiny step from their stone-age attitudes in the last 200+ years - despite 100's of billions of our dollars going to support them, in every way possible.

 

They are simply in jail in higher numbers than the rest of the population, because if you are going to be the victim of a crime, it will more than likely be an Aboriginal person perpetrating it.

 

There is absolutely no justification in changing our legal and justice system to stop jailing criminals of a certain race, simply because they are over-represented in our jails. They are there, simply because they commit regular crimes, and they are repeat offenders.

 

The drive and will to improve your character and outlook and behaviour comes from within - and no amount of do-gooders saying we are being horrible to those poor Aboriginals will ever help them improve their atrocious, anti-social behaviour - unless the Aboriginal involved is prepared to change his/her ways and become a useful, contributing member of our society.

 

They have little work ethic, because of their nomadic ancestry. I have numerous close relatives working in the mining and oil and gas fields, and the employment deals to get more Abo workers onto the job, are nothing but constant, repeat failure. They have a poor grasp of the concepts of time, reliability, and honesty. In other words, they are largely a dead loss as employees.

 

Only when the Aboriginals step up and take personal responsibility for their atrocious levels of errant behaviour, will they make the first step towards evolving into useful members of our 21st century society in Australia.

 

Well done one track - remove "aboriginal" from this rediculous tiatribe and insert "white Anglo Saxon" and it will read pretty much the same

 

 

[kaz3g]

MOST crime is drug related...At the moment, the cost of keeping one prisoner behind bars is approximately $100,000 per year.

Yes, and ice is the worst from a number of aspects...its extreme addictiveness, the brain damage repeated exposure does, and the violent behaviour of those affected.

 

Incarceration costs are actually about $120k pa but that doesn't cover the infrastructure, just the keepers. It costs the equivalent of about two months incarceration to put an addicted person through a course of rehabilitation instead.

 

The only thing imprisoning addicts does is harden their attitude and add to their repertoire of skills as thieves, burglars and bashers. Those few that aren't addicted before they enter will,almost certainly be when they get out. Prison does not treat the addiction. The concept of rehab in prison is a sad joke.

 

Prison should be the place where only the worst of society are held. The rest, the majority, should have their medical and mental health issues treated in the community under supervision while they work off their debt to society.

 

Why do we have women serving 12 months or more because they sold a small quantity of drugs to pay for their own addiction when their men are released into the community for bashing them in their homes?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Garfly]

Well done one track - remove "aboriginal" from this rediculous tiatribe and insert "white Anglo Saxon" and it will read pretty much the same

 

Well, ev, if not 'white Anglo Saxon' then certainly 'white Irish Celt'.

 

From the Wikipedia article on Irish Americans:

 

"There were also Darwinian-inspired excuses for the discrimination of the Irish in America. Many Americans believed that since the Irish were Celts and not Anglo-Saxons, they were racially inferior and deserved second-hand citizenship. The Irish being of inferior intelligence was a belief held by many Americans. This notion was held due to the fact that the Irish topped the charts demographically in terms of arrests and imprisonment. They also had more people confined to insane asylums and poorhouses than any other group. The racial supremacy belief that many Americans had at the time contributed significantly to Irish discrimination."

 

Drunkard Irishman depiction in the 1800s.

 

 

 

[kaz3g]

One track...I'm not going to debate this issue with you because I see no value in it. But I have lived and worked in the north-west of your state and in the NT. I live and work amongst the members of the largest Aboriginal community in Victoria now.

 

All I can say is that your "experience" doesn't match mine.

 

Kaz

 

 

[ozbear]

[ATTACH]47937._xfImport[/ATTACH]

[onetrack]

ev17ifly2 - No, it doesn't. The Aboriginal attendance rate at school is abysmal. They are more often truant than at school. Aboriginal families actually get paid extra to ensure their children attend school. I don't see any Anglo-Saxon kids getting paid to attend school.

 

The Aboriginal pass rates for any education is around 30%. Of course, that must be the fault of the education system - that's the same education system where even State School Anglo-Saxon kids can pass at around 80 or 90% of the total attendance.

 

Aboriginal parenting is abysmal. Any time you want to visit, I'll show you unparented Aboriginal kids of 6, 8 or 10 roaming the CBD of Perth at hours well past normal bedtime, and into the early hours. Of course, that must be white peoples fault.

 

The English fluency, literacy, and numeracy, of young Aboriginals is so bad, they can't even pass a basic test for a job. Ask anyone with a business around Alice Springs about that. Of course, that's all the white man's fault again - you shouldn't need to be able to speak understandable English and be able to count to get a job. The job system is obviously slanted against Aboriginals, it's a lousy white man's world out there.

 

I note that many immigrants from other lands arrived here 30, 50, 60 and 80 years ago, and couldn't speak English. They nearly all learnt understandable English, and got jobs, and became useful, upstanding citizens. I fail to see why Aboriginals can't do the same - apart from the fact it's all the white man's fault that they can't.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

They have been destroyed by state welfare.

 

AKA victims of socialism. There's a lot of them out there - in fact everywhere in the world it is tried...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Aboriginal kids of 6, 8 or 10 roaming the CBD of Perth at hours well past normal bedtime, and into the early hours.

I got quite the shock actually living in various NSW upper Newell Hwy towns for weeks at a time while exploratory drilling.

 

I think others should do the same before forming an opinion on the subject, quite an eye opener.

 

I live and work amongst the members of the largest Aboriginal community in Victoria now.

All I can say is that your "experience" doesn't match mine.

 

Kaz

My ex-Mother in Law is Dutch, devoted Catholic and after her husband died she immersed herself in the Church. She was a children's special needs carer for most of her life in Australia.

 

With these skills the Church sent her to a mid WA homestay something or rather where she was one of the live in carers for about 20 - 30 Aborigine teens. After 2 years she had had enough and this reasonably loving and caring women with 20 odd years experience of caring for difficult and handicapped kids, well simplistically, she hated their guts. I don't know all the ins and outs, although words such as lazy, dirty, violent, thieves were used, just the result.

 

 

[ozbear]

I've had my house broken into various items stolen credit cards stolen my partners brand new car stolen by two bored aboriginal ice heads they have been arrested and go to court next week repeat offenders.

 

The worst thing is we were home asleep at the time they are brazen and have no fear of the law at all

 

I don't know what the answer is but if somebody paid me to do nothing and gave me free services and a house I sure as hell wouldn't be working

 

I donate to the Brahminey Foundation every year they take troubled youth and give them some tough love out in the bush and try to teach them some life skills and have a pretty good success rate maybe a program Australia wide will go part way to solving a growing epidemic.

 

 

[ozbear]

kaz

 

Yes, and ice is the worst from a number of aspects...its extreme addictiveness, the brain damage repeated exposure does, and the violent behaviour of those affected.

Incarceration costs are actually about $120k pa but that doesn't cover the infrastructure, just the keepers. It costs the equivalent of about two months incarceration to put an addicted person through a course of rehabilitation instead.

 

The only thing imprisoning addicts does is harden their attitude and add to their repertoire of skills as thieves, burglars and bashers. Those few that aren't addicted before they enter will,almost certainly be when they get out. Prison does not treat the addiction. The concept of rehab in prison is a sad joke.

 

Prison should be the place where only the worst of society are held. The rest, the majority, should have their medical and mental health issues treated in the community under supervision while they work off their debt to society.

 

Why do we have women serving 12 months or more because they sold a small quantity of drugs to pay for their own addiction when their men are released into the community for bashing them in their homes?

 

Kaz

 

I doubt these women would be jailed for 12 months if they aren't repeat offenders.

 

The system allows drug addicts to choose rehab instead of prison.Many of them have no intention of quitting drugs and smuggle drugs into rehab centres disrupting genuine patients that are really trying to beat their addiction.

 

In my opinion prison is the right place for them to protect society but should be run a whole lot differently with follow up programs and support

[hihosland]

Great % of prison pop is there because of drug related offences

 

another way of saying that is that they are there because drugs were made illegal.

 

Anti drug laws have obviously not worked.

 

Take away the illegality of using and

 

... prison pop drops

 

... drugs no longer illegal become no longer profitable for the crims to sell

 

... dramaticlly reduce the incentive of one addict to recruit new users

 

... greater % of users will stay with opoiods and canaboids and less % with ice etc

 

... thus more happy sleepy users and less violent ones.

 

.. less health probs from contaminated drugs

 

Can't be any worse than present situation.

 

Holland etc's experience has been beneficial.