Do your bit for justice

[facthunter]

Graduates from "Bluestone College" have learned many anti social skills and met some bad "connections", while in there. The rate of incarceration of aboriginals in the NT is the highest of anywhere in the world. Hardly something to be proud of as a nation..

 

The liquor industry keeps wanting to sell more GROG, which aborigines are not good at handling, and put them into work farms to get them out of sight. Slavery? Do we need more of this sort of thing, if it's such a good idea? Yes there are a lot roaming around doing things that don't win them friends, like some others who don't have the excuse of someone stealing their country, pretending they weren't there, Mucking it up and treating them in a patronising "we know best" what is good for you, manner. It's easy to say why don't they live like we do? Work in soul destroying jobs, wondering if you will still have it next Monday and how you will pay your rates and electricity. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

For a start we can decriminalise all drugs. Look at Portugal's example. There is no reason why you can legally go buy two bottles of vodka and make yourself blotto, antisocial and possibly dead from overdosing, but you can't legally do the same with heroin. At the same time spend the equivalent amount on proper rehabilitation and work training.

 

Like someone smart once said, decriminalizing drugs is NOT going to make them more attractive. Using the example above - just because vodka is legal doesn't mean we're all alcoholics - if other drugs were legal we wouldn't all be dopeheads. The root causes of any addiction should be addressed, because people who are fulfilled in their lives don't tend to turn to destructive addictions.

 

We know prison doesn't rehabilitate people, all it does is shut the problem out of sight for a little while, then it comes back worse than before. As a society we shouldn't let a desire for revenge/punishment to perpetuate the cycle.

 

 

[skeptic36]

The rate of incarceration of aboriginals in the NT is the highest of anywhere in the world. Hardly something to be proud of as a nation..

Compared to what? How does the percentage of aboriginals per capita compare to elsewhere in the world?

 

Work in soul destroying jobs, wondering if you will still have it next Monday and how you will pay your rates and electricity. Nev

Isn't that called taking responsibility for your own well being?

 

 

[M61A1]

For a start we can decriminalise all drugs. Look at Portugal's example. There is no reason why you can legally go buy two bottles of vodka and make yourself blotto, antisocial and possibly dead from overdosing, but you can't legally do the same with heroin. At the same time spend the equivalent amount on proper rehabilitation and work training. Like someone smart once said, decriminalizing drugs is NOT going to make them more attractive. Using the example above - just because vodka is legal doesn't mean we're all alcoholics - if other drugs were legal we wouldn't all be dopeheads. The root causes of any addiction should be addressed, because people who are fulfilled in their lives don't tend to turn to destructive addictions.

 

We know prison doesn't rehabilitate people, all it does is shut the problem out of sight for a little while, then it comes back worse than before. As a society we shouldn't let a desire for revenge/punishment to perpetuate the cycle.

I like the idea of decriminalising a lot of things and put the onus back onto the user not to hurt or inconvenience others, but anyone that does needs to be held responsible and accountable. Some people have addictive personalities, addressing the root causes are difficult, but then, sorting those issues should come back to the families of those involved, not society in general.

 

The way the country is governed needs to change for it to work though, there are too many authoritarians who think the public cannot be allowed to think for themselves.

 

 

[facthunter]

Those figures are readily available . What does % of aboriginals per capita mean? I think 3% of the population equals 20% of those incarcerated as a comparison, and WORSENING by the day.

 

Are really good jobs out there just waiting for people to get off their bum.? And I wasn't talking of aborigines in that instance. No they are not there and the system wants to pay less for workers per hour as time moves on, producing more people with financial difficulties. Called the "Working Poor". It's most evident in the USA as a widespread phenomenon. Borrowed money is boosting the economies so as soon as ones income ceases, you have to sell and move out. If all around you are in the same boat the goods for sale are worthless. Hence the GFC , as Banks sell debt around as if it's real money, not a serious gamble which it is.. Nev

 

 

[Guest Nightmare1]

Great % of prison pop is there because of drug related offencesanother way of saying that is that they are there because drugs were made illegal.

 

Anti drug laws have obviously not worked.

 

Take away the illegality of using and

 

... prison pop drops

 

... drugs no longer illegal become no longer profitable for the crims to sell

 

... dramaticlly reduce the incentive of one addict to recruit new users

 

... greater % of users will stay with opoiods and canaboids and less % with ice etc

 

... thus more happy sleepy users and less violent ones.

 

.. less health probs from contaminated drugs

 

Can't be any worse than present situation.

 

Holland etc's experience has been beneficial.

Further to this, - You eliminate or significantly reduce organised crime overnight, they no longer have a viable income.

 

- The government can regulate the manufacture of the drugs, stopping untrained and uneducated manufacturers from putting things like battery acid into the product, making them significantly safer.

 

- The product would be sold for a fraction of the price of what it would be sold from a organized crime dealer

 

- it could be taxed, generating an income for the government which would then be spent on the health system as the junkies would no longer be frightened to seek medical help to get off the stuff.

 

- The prisons will empty out as around 80% of all crime is dug related. Crime in general will drop as the junkies could afford to get their drugs without resorting to crime.

 

I have maintained the thought for a while now that drugs should be the domain of the medical system not the justice system, just like how we deal with alcohol abuse.

 

 

[kaz3g]

I've had my house broken into various items stolen credit cards stolen my partners brand new car stolen by two bored aboriginal ice heads they have been arrested and go to court next week repeat offenders.The worst thing is we were home asleep at the time they are brazen and have no fear of the law at all

 

I don't know what the answer is but if somebody paid me to do nothing and gave me free services and a house I sure as hell wouldn't be working

 

I donate to the Brahminey Foundation every year they take troubled youth and give them some tough love out in the bush and try to teach them some life skills and have a pretty good success rate maybe a program Australia wide will go part way to solving a growing epidemic.

I think the problem is that you have identified those offenders by their Aboriginality rather than by their medical, socio-economic circumstances. It's often easy to see black and white but harder to see how the person lives.

 

Victoria has only a small population of Aboriginal people compared to other States and they tend to live in relatively concentrated groups (as have many of our more recent arrivals from Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Africa.

 

I find very little difference between the issues affecting a number of the Aboriginal people in my area and the many non-Aboriginal people in similar circumstances. It doesn't take Einstein to see its not colour that is the problem, it's common factors starting with lack of opportunity, flowing through lack of self esteem, and ending up down the gutter of despair that result in anti-social behaviour.

 

Kaz

 

 

[facthunter]

Make them cheap and readily available . That eliminates the criminal element all the way through. Abolition never works. Then point out how people who have limited brain power already (ALL of us) are STUPID to do permanent damage to ourselves and our GENES. Make it an object of ridicule. Hardly anyone in France drinks to get drunk unless they are Australian or German, tourists, yet France has always made fine Wine and Cognac. Years ago if you couldn't hold your liquor you were derided and ridiculed. The culture of Getting P1ssed out of your brain is out there. It doesn't have to be. TOO many people are making money out of it. Like gambling which unashamedly robs you blind but pretends to be socially responsible by promoting some football or similar. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

Sceptic asked "Compared to what? How does the percentage of aboriginals per capita compare to elsewhere in the world?"

 

There are Aboriginal people in many parts of the world including NZ, much of North and South America, parts of Asia and even Europe.

 

Dispossession and the breakdown of culture have created similar issues in each of those locations in proportion to the extent of the loss. Almost all of those other countries ended up with treaties and consequent greater recognition and respect. Why are we different?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest Nightmare1]

I used to manage and run a small second hand/pawnbroker shop from 1988-1995. Every item, and I mean EVERY item, an aboriginal person sold to the shop, was stolen property. I am not exaggerating....

 

There are Elders in the Aboriginal communities who are well respected by their people. I have seen them hang their heads in shame and hand the unlawful ones over to the authorities. Even they can't get through to these extremely rebellious individuals.

 

In Qld, they just reintroduced "Murrie Court" The ATSI crims are terrified of it, they choose the "White Man's Court" every time. They are likely to get a spear in their leg...

 

 

[Guest Nightmare1]

I think as a nation, we should be going away from giving preference to people groups based on skin colour, culture, religion etc. This is racism and I do not support it, just as much as I don't support discrimination.... There is one area I do discriminate against: Stupidity!

 

Any preference given(hand outs etc), should be on the sole basis of merit and their situation.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes their "system" has broken down, There are pretty obvious reasons for that, one major one being the way we put an "exploit for money" tag on everything, and don't make the damage a "costed" item but it's not as if WE are perfect either, and we set ourselves up as to where it should be AT. as taken for granted as a desired outcome .

 

White collar crime is where we specialise, and the stakes/ rewards are much higher. I don't see any large criminal movements established amongst the aborigines. Sure you don't have to look hard to see them stealing from Ute Toolboxes in the main street of Katherine in the afternoons and such, but in the big scheme of things more a symptom of a bigger problem, than anything else. Much of the money spent has been wasted, but their way of life is constantly attacked and they are still driven off their lands for reasons that are not above board. They share things and give their kin jobs. That looks like corruption to us but it's the way they have always done it. To them , it's normal. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

It will all come good when they are included in the constitution. Funny that one didn't get much mention in the run up to the election.

 

 

[facthunter]

No it wasn't. It has to be kept simple for the simple folk. The dumbing down is somewhat insulting, but perhaps they have got it right with their tried and proven method. We collectively have a short attention span when it comes to politics. Their advisors went a bit astray this time though, with tactics. Don't think the Double Dissolution helped anything but Pauline. Nev

 

 

[Garfly]

Hopefully, Yenn.

 

This was the Norwegian experience regarding the indigenous Sami people:

 

"Norway has been greatly criticized by the international community for the politics of Norwegianization of and discrimination against the aboriginal population of the country. ... The Sami have for centuries been the subject of discrimination and abuse by the dominant cultures claiming possession of their lands, right unto the present day.

 

 

[However] ....

 

The Sami have been recognized as an indigenous people in Norway (1990 according to ILO convention 169 ...) and hence, according to international law, the Sami people in Norway are entitled special protection and rights. The legal foundation of the Sami policy is:

 

 

• Article 110a of the Norwegian Constitution.
   
  
• The Sami Act (act of 12 June 1987 No. 56 concerning the Sami Parliament (the Sámediggi) and other legal matters pertaining to the Samis).
   
  

 

The constitutional amendment states: "It is the responsibility of the authorities of the State to create conditions enabling the Sami people to preserve and develop its language, culture and way of life." "

 

Quoted from:

 

Sami people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

[bexrbetter]

There's some interesting things said in Michael Moore's "Where do we invade next" doco relevant to this topic, worth the watch (otherwise boring) for the Portugul drug laws and the overtone of how modern slavery against Blacks works.

 

 

[M61A1]

If Michael Moore made a doco about it,then it has to be true.....

 

 

[bexrbetter]

If Michael Moore made a doco about it,then it has to be true.....

It's like any opinion, you take what you want from it and also dismiss what you want.

 

The whole doco is mostly a shallow time waste, just the Portugese drug laws and the overtone about what might be construed as modern slavery I thought were rather interesting and relevant to this thread's theme.

 

 

[hihosland]

Another thing about the failed "war on drugs" is to contemplate how different in Mexico, Colombia, Afghanistan and a handful of other nations political stability and the rule of law situation would be without that 'war' .

 

 

[M61A1]

It's like any opinion, you take what you want from it and also dismiss what you want.

The whole doco is mostly a shallow time waste, just the Portugese drug laws and the overtone about what might be construed as modern slavery I thought were rather interesting and relevant to this thread's theme.

It was nothing personal.....I read a lot of your posts and often find myself in agreeing, I was really surprised to see you quote a Michael Moore doco, as generally speaking, it is my opinion that you are correct when saying "The whole doco is mostly a shallow time waste".

 

 

[bexrbetter]

It was nothing personal.....I read a lot of your posts and often find myself in agreeing, I was really surprised to see you quote a Michael Moore doco, as generally speaking, it is my opinion that you are correct when saying "The whole doco is mostly a shallow time waste".

I have some Far Left American friends (True!) who know Moore well, one previously working with him in the same office. They say He is a really lovely guy, genuine, caring and a great friend ...

 

... they won't watch his docos either

 

 

[ozbear]

I think the problem is that you have identified those offenders by their Aboriginality rather than by their medical, socio-economic circumstances. It's often easy to see black and white but harder to see how the person lives.

Victoria has only a small population of Aboriginal people compared to other States and they tend to live in relatively concentrated groups (as have many of our more recent arrivals from Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Africa.

 

I find very little difference between the issues affecting a number of the Aboriginal people in my area and the many non-Aboriginal people in similar circumstances. It doesn't take Einstein to see its not colour that is the problem, it's common factors starting with lack of opportunity, flowing through lack of self esteem, and ending up down the gutter of despair that result in anti-social behaviour.

 

Kaz

Kaz I didn't say colour was the problem if they were Martians I would have identified them as that there is no problem identifying them as aboriginal

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Kaz I didn't say colour was the problem if they were Martians I would have identified them as that there is no problem identifying them as aboriginal

It's like being called a "racist" if you called Adam Goodes an idiot .... no, Adam Goodes is just an idiot.