MILITARY COUP IN TURKEY ?

[Phil Perry]

All sorts of interesting stuff coming from Turkey in the last three hours. . . .

 

Here is a twitter feed which might help. . . . I'm sure that the Aus Broadcasters will be onto this anyway, but the BBC had to be asked by us bloggers what they thought, on the main Radio 4 news hotline, and it was evident that they didn't have a bloody clue. . . .it is possible that the Turks are fed p with Erdogan and his islamisation of a secular country. . . . anyway, the next few days should be interesting. . . . be nice to go back to Turkey on holidays again, without being threatened with beheading by ISIS feckwits. . . .

 

Gilgo (@agirecudi) | Twitter

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Thanks Phil, will be following with concern about Turkish friends.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Texit from NATO on the cards?

 

 

[dutchroll]

. . . .it is possible that the Turks are fed p with Erdogan and his islamisation of a secular country

Phil, the population of Turkey has been >97% muslim for a hundred years now. What do you mean by "islamisation of a secular country"? Or are you talking more about "radicalisation" than "islamisation", given that it's already about as islamic as it can get?

 

I get it if by "secular" you mean it has no official State religion. That is guaranteed in the Turkish Constitution. Well, actually an amendment to the constitution in 1928 as the original one specified that the official religion was Islam. However reports are that the military coup leaders want a new constitution. I'd be interested to know specifically why, as Erdogan's Justice and Development Party (AKP) has also called for a new constitution and I don't for a minute think their visions of "new constitution" could be the same thing or we wouldn't have a coup attempt.

 

I suspect it has not so much to do directly with who is islamic or not, but more to do with Erdogan being seen to have become almost dictatorial in Government and his terrible failings in dealing with ISIS and the PKK, who see Turkey as a mortal enemy and have lead to numerous terror attacks. Of course the endemic corruption and general political instability doesn't help either.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Phil belongs to the Boris Johnson school of British diplomacy.

 

Turkey has been a big backer of IS, I'm sure you remember the US bombing oil tankers that were flooding Turkey with cheap oil in 2015.

 

 

[dutchroll]

There's been no evidence that Turkey has provided material assistance (weapons, financing, etc) to ISIS, although it's relative inaction against ISIS because it wants ISIS to continue fighting the Kurds has been an ongoing problem.

 

As to the oil output which is in ISIS hands, where you believe that's ending up and how it is being facilitated depends on whether you believe the Russians, Europeans, Turks, Kurds, Iraqis, Syrians, or Syrian rebels. Or one of a few hundred internet conspiracy websites out there which all seem to have a different opinion (the only common theme being that whatever is happening, Obama is probably behind it - he is the Antichrist after all).

 

 

[bexrbetter]

"Turkey's democracy must be respected and Berlin is supporting the elected government in Ankara, German Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman said on Saturday after an attempted coup by a faction of the Turkish military".

 

Oh but it's ok to de-stabilise and send money and arms into the Ukraine against the democratically elected Government starting a civil war the moment they dumped your deal and went Pro-Russia.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Yes I also noticed Merkel and Obama were quick to side with the Islamo-fascists that are currently dismantling the constitution there. Turnbull.... of course it was a given that he would also, didn't even need to check.

 

 

[dutchroll]

......so you're on the side of military coups bringing down elected governments and having the coup participants' tanks roll over the unarmed civilians trying to block them in the streets, are you Gnu?

 

I see you're a man of principles.

 

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[bexrbetter]

Yes I also noticed Merkel and Obama were quick to side with the Islamo-fascists that are currently dismantling the constitution there. .

Not sure what you're saying there but the Government is there on a massive majority win, over double the next closest Party. Doesn't not make Merkel a hypocrite though "with blood on her hands" as the saying goes.

 

......so you're on the side of military coups bringing down elected governments

I'm pretty sure you would drive a tank over Hansons, Trumps and Brexits etc - all democratically elected.

 

But no surprise there, just typical Lefty hypocrisy.

 

and having the coup participants' tanks roll over the unarmed civilians trying to block them in the streets, are you Gnu?

The current Government has even used jets against civilians, one needs to know a long lead up history rather than just reading today's headlines as to what's going on.

 

... and no, none of it is good.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

[ Quote ] Dutchroll > I get it if by "secular" you mean it has no official State religion. That is guaranteed in the Turkish Constitution . [ Quote ]

 

Phil's clumsy writing as usual. Yes Dutch - that is what I meant.

 

And in response to FT's comment regarding Boris Johnson. . . .

 

( Just trying to save paper. . .)

 

Boris 'TWEETED' his concerns last night, so he is obviously on top of the situation ( ? )

 

It's all over anyway.

 

Phil.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Interesting article by Sam Kiley re: the failed coup in Turkey.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/fail...

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Like the USA Turkey is a republic not a democracy. And in such the constitution is king, the president of the day simply does not have the authority to fiddle with it such as his efforts to make it 'more Islamic'. Goes for Obama as well as Erdogan of course.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I'm pretty sure you would drive a tank over Hansons, Trumps and Brexits etc - all democratically elected.

But no surprise there, just typical Lefty hypocrisy.

Lol. Some of your responses to things I write could be used to teach a university philosophy course on logical fallacies.

 

"I'm sure you would do this" (makes obviously ludicrous untrue statement about driving tanks over Pauline Hanson)

 

"Therefore I can say you're a hypocrite" (argument careers off in random direction)

 

"and a lefty" (asserting your opinion on whether someone is politically left or right inclined is not actually an insult, though presumably it was intended as one)

 

The current Government has even used jets against civilians, one needs to know a long lead up history rather than just reading today's headlines as to what's going on.

... and no, none of it is good.

I didn't actually say any of it was good. A couple of posts back on this thread I said: "......but more to do with Erdogan being seen to have become almost dictatorial in Government and his terrible failings in dealing with ISIS and the PKK." I surely don't have to explain that this is not a compliment do I?

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Turkey is done, now for the cranberry sauce....

 

 

[spacesailor]

Armed revolution to overthrow a "Republic", over 5oo years of peace & stability since the 'Republic if England" was booted out.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[dutchroll]

Like the USA Turkey is a republic not a democracy. And in such the constitution is king, the president of the day simply does not have the authority to fiddle with it such as his efforts to make it 'more Islamic'. Goes for Obama as well as Erdogan of course.

And how exactly is Obama "fiddling with the constitution" in the USA? Enlighten me.

 

Republicans in the US have a lot of power and for 2 years have controlled both houses of Congress. Up until the death of Antonin Scalia they had also successfully managed to stack the SCOTUS with enough judges to pretty much run a conservative agenda there. Obama would be exposed immediately if he'd actually done anything unconstitutional or illegal. Of course that fact doesn't stop people who hate him just making sh!t up as they go.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think Obama's presidency will be remembered as one of the great ones. Followed by either a mediocre one by Clinton or a downright terrifying one by that other clown.

 

 

[Yenn]

What is the difference between Turkey and Syria. If I remember correctly Syria has been suffering from attempted coups for the last several years. Backed by the good ol USA.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I think Obama's presidency will be remembered as one of the great ones.

Haha indeed - for the poor grinding poverty and no jobs with a rolling recession, for the middle class large increase in health insurance cost and lower wages, for the top 1% massive boost to wealth and the icing is a racial war for everyone. Oh, and institutionalised corruption.

 

 

[dutchroll]

.....the recession actually started when Bush was in power. In fact the GFC which trashed numerous economies around the world was largely a product of the massive financial crisis that emerged in the USA in Bush's final term.

 

But we won't tell anyone. That way they'll think it was all Obama's fault. Bloody Kenyans can never be trusted to run the world's biggest economy anyway.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Haha indeed - for the poor grinding poverty and no jobs with a rolling recession, for the middle class large increase in health insurance cost and lower wages, for the top 1% massive boost to wealth and the icing is a racial war for everyone. Oh, and institutionalised corruption.

All that is on Obama? Man he must've been busy, to achieve all that as well as trying to introduce universal healthcare and reduce gun violence, the whole time fighting against a Republican-dominated Senate with the NRA's hand up their collective ar$e$. Oh, you didn't mention, he also killed Bin Laden.

 

As for institutionalised corruption, look no further than Dubya's reign of incompetence. Donald Rumsfeld ring a bell? Halliburton? Dick Cheney? Not to mention Dubya's voting shenanigans? Pfft. Come back when you have a real point.

 

 

[octave]

Haha indeed - for the poor grinding poverty and no jobs with a rolling recession, for the middle class large increase in health insurance cost and lower wages, for the top 1% massive boost to wealth and the icing is a racial war for everyone. Oh, and institutionalised corruption.

yeah because of course none of these things occurred during the previous administration eh? The 1%??? remember the financial crisis????? No jobs? United States Unemployment Rates by President, 1948-2016 please take the time to scroll down to the unemployment graph for Bush then Obama.

 

can you provide evidence that unemployment and poverty only became a problem during the Obama administration???? Sorry I know it is inconvenient but I am only interesting in facts.

 

It is important that when we are trying to support our beliefs that we intellectually honest.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Grief.

 

I thought " In fact the GFC " was solely Keeting's poverty we had to have, 18% mortgage drove a few to suicide.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Haha indeed - for the poor grinding poverty and no jobs with a rolling recession, for the middle class large increase in health insurance cost and lower wages, for the top 1% massive boost to wealth and the icing is a racial war for everyone. Oh, and institutionalised corruption.

Just because you may not bother to click on the link to unemployment graphs here is the narrative that go with the graphs United States Unemployment Rates by President, 1948-2016

 

"When Obama assumed office, the unemployment rate was still rising sharply. It topped out at 10 percent in October 2009, hovering just below that level for the next year, before beginning a steady decline at the end of 2010 that has persisted into early-2016 and breaking through the 5 percent mark at the beginning of 2016."

 

Care to comment gnu???