Money

[Old Koreelah]

It's not just the outright lies. It's the half truths, the misleading statements and unrelenting bias that gets them the reputation they have well and truly earned. They can never give a clear `yes' or `no' answer to anything.rgmwa

We are all to blame. Who would vote for a politician who was honest enough to promise to get our national debt under control by increasing taxes and reducing services?

 

 

[cscotthendry]

We are all to blame. Who would vote for a politician who was honest enough to promise to get our national debt under control by increasing taxes and reducing services?

OK! It's not only us, and it's not even mainly us that lets the pollies get away with their lies. As shown by the responses to the forum here, most people are awake to the lies. The real villians are the compliant media who never ask follow up questions or challenge a pollie when they spew forth utter BS. The media usually also have an agenda, so they spin the BS of their favored pollies, and beat up the other side. Most media outlets try to disguise their bias, but the Murdochracy are quite blatant and shameless about it. The ABC portrayed as Islamic State, or Kevin Rudd photoshopped into a Nazi uniform?

 

 

[Jaba-who]

The media are a major cause of the weasel words.

 

Pollies know that the slightest mis-speak will be dragged back out to thrash them with. Even in situations where no one can give a definite answer and a sensible listener should realise they can't - even the slightest nuance toward a real answer will be blown up as an absolute statement of intent, position or belief.

 

So they are forced to not answer lest their words be used against them.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Firstly $200,000 isn't a bad cop and I don't believe relativity comes into it especially when you see what a real businessman has to do for his dollar.

 

Secondly, the $200,000 is about completely pocketed (the actual amount after tax of course), the are fed, traveled, officed, secretary'd etc etc. - lets also mention the stay away rebate of some $300 per night, often around 100K per year, even if they stay in their own homes, and of course many just buy a house in Canberra and use that to pay it off.

 

Typically the cost is about 400 to 500K for the total package.

 

And of course it's easy to accept a little relative lower salary, apparently, when you know you will walk away with $100,000+ pension the rest of your life - where do I sign.

 

I don't know how Dastardly can just be put on the Back Benches, he should be kicked out, effin old boys club looking after each other.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

It's not just the outright lies. It's the half truths, the misleading statements and unrelenting bias that gets them the reputation they have well and truly earned. They can never give a clear `yes' or `no' answer to anything.rgmwa

This is a 'Trueism' . . .however,. . .I have only ever heard politicians ever answer 'Yes'. . .or 'No' to questions from media representatives TWICE.

 

Once, Mr. Nigel Farage, in a discussion about fishing rights in English waters in the Euro Parliament,. . .and Rees-Mogg MP, . . .in a discussion about Tax credits for immigrants. . . .

 

Never before have I heard Pollies answer in less than a 300 word waffle, without actually answering the original enquiry. . . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

Firstly $200,000 isn't a bad cop and I don't believe relativity comes into it especially when you see what a real businessman has to do for his dollar.

Secondly, the $200,000 is about completely pocketed (the actual amount after tax of course), the are fed, traveled, officed, secretary'd etc etc. - lets also mention the stay away rebate of some $300 per night, often around 100K per year, even if they stay in their own homes, and of course many just buy a house in Canberra and use that to pay it off.

 

Typically the cost is about 400 to 500K for the total package.

 

And of course it's easy to accept a little relative lower salary, apparently, when you know you will walk away with $100,000+ pension the rest of your life - where do I sign.

 

I don't know how Dastardly can just be put on the Back Benches, he should be kicked out, effin old boys club looking after each other.

I agree 100% with your first 4 paragraphs.

 

However if you're going to kick out every pollie who rorts the system, there'll be tumbleweeds blowing through Canberra. I notice Arthur Sinodinos is still there despite arranging TOTALLY illegal donations from NSW property developers being diverted to the national liberal party then siphoned back to NSW.

 

I think the only way to fix donations is to ban them totally. Even from individuals. Include the cost of election campaigns in the tax budget and find a way to fairly apportion it. Allow the occasional gift (object, not cash) with value under say $200 which still must be recorded in an immediate register. And for chrissakes fix the travel system.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I have only ever heard politicians ever answer 'Yes'. . .or 'No' to questions from media representatives TWICE.

Ah well, nobody's perfect!

 

rgmwa

 

 

[spacesailor]

A $200 gift for a pollie!.

 

That Would be an absolute insult, wouldn't buy a good fake Rolex watch.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[David2ayo]

A $200 gift for a pollie!.That Would be an absolute insult, wouldn't buy a good fake Rolex watch.

 

spacesailor

So long as it blows up remotely on command, who cares if its a good fake

 

David

 

 

[Phil Perry]

We are all to blame. Who would vote for a politician who was honest enough to promise to get our national debt under control by increasing taxes and reducing services?

I heard of a ( Failed ) politician, who had the utter nerve to ask questions about the UKs GLORIOUS AND FREE National Health Service. Apparently, he had been working for an external supplier who had been charging figures like 200% more for basic items, like, bandages, general dressings, and ESPECIALLY DRUGS ! the list he came up with was very interesting, but he was shouted down as an idiot. . .you CANNOT attack this national treasure, which has been a snecure for many years for people who have No talent, are not medically trained in any way shame nor form, and do not give a TOSS how much their suppliers charge.

 

My friend, . . I shall call him 'Tony'. . .works for a company which supplies important medical electronics equipment for wards and theatres,. .. he says, that they buy in the stuff from all over, then bump up the price tenfold and the NHS 'Managers' just pay it without question.

 

They are paying, even now, seven times the usual price at a pharmacy for simple drugs like paracetomol and aspirin. . even bloody TOILET PAPER . . ..and no one seems to give a $hit. . . . This is probably why they have to refuse important anti cancer drugs to other patients because the funding is insufficient.

 

If any Quasi Autonomous Government service ever needed a severe kick up the arris,. . .it is the 'INTERNATIONAL Health Servce, where people from all over the world, fly in to have all sorts of treatment, and then fly home again without paying for any of it, and the NHS don't chase them for the money. . . .Try this in the USA, Spain, France or Australia and see how far you get. . And after all this they are ALWAYS whinging that they are under-funded. . . .total BOLLOX is the fact. . . .British taxpayers are getting a lttle tired of this malarkey . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

The media and the way they character assassinate each other as a means of proving their own superiority or getting re elected has a bit to do with how we perceive them. I think many DO get IN to improve things or see party policy (which they like) implemented. One of the big problems is what factors influence party policy, (Who's funding them) and how are preselections conducted. Most problems are at branch level. The Senate method is a shambles at present. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Since ALL policy is founded by CIVIL SERVANTS. . . . Any Honest politicians have a really difficult job to shift policy, especially when confounded by these unelected bloody beaurocrats. . . .who seem to think that THEY. . .rather than the elected Government, have the final say. . .because THEY really KNOW what's going on in the back offces, . . and this is rarlely if ever transmitted to the Minister in charge of that department. . . .the faceless 'THEY'. . . 'tis the same since Government was invented. . . . .

 

 

[old man emu]

Since ALL policy is founded by CIVIL SERVANTS. . . . Any Honest politicians have a really difficult job to shift policy, especially when confounded by these unelected bloody beaurocrats. . . .who seem to think that THEY. . .rather than the elected Government, have the final say. . .because THEY really KNOW what's going on in the back offces, . . and this is rarlely if ever transmitted to the Minister in charge of that department. . . .the faceless 'THEY'. . . 'tis the same since Government was invented. . . . .

Gee! That sounds like a great premise for a TV show. You could cast a bumbling idiot as a newly elected Minister; a wily career Public Servant as Head of Department, and a junior PS as the meat in the sandwich. I wonder if it would be successful?

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

I think Phil's been watching "yes Minister". If we gave some credit when they do the right thing perhaps they wouldn't be so cowed at the monstering they get by the media. It's made to look the way it does by editing replies out of context and even unabashed photoshopping and we don't question it, enough or be suitably sceptical of their "VIEWS". I "read it in the paper" is never a proper reason to give something any credibility what ever. People also buy the papers that tell them what they want to hear to a great extent I reinforces their existing views. Trump can claim the Media are liars and be fairly correct. They have well earned the distrust they get (and more) Nev.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I think Phil's been watching "yes Minister". If we gave some credit when they do the right thing perhaps they wouldn't be so cowed at the monstering they get by the media. It's made to look the way it does by editing replies out of context and even unabashed photoshopping and we don't question it, enough or be suitably sceptical of their "VIEWS". I "read it in the paper" is never a proper reason to give something any credibility what ever. People also buy the papers that tell them what they want to hear to a great extent I reinforces their existing views. Trump can claim the Media are liars and be fairly correct. They have well earned the distrust they get (and more) Nev.

It's interesting to note that both Margaret Thatcher, and John Major, have both commented during their time as PM that the scripts for the BBC show 'Yes Minister' HAD to have been written by an, or some Westmister 'Insiders' . . .as it was all SO CLOSE to reality for comfort ! ! If you have watched many of these episodes, you will see that the writers ard constantly taking the wee wee at the expense of the EU, or 'EUROPE' as it was then generally known. . . . couldn't do a show ike that nowadays though . . too close to the knuckle and aganst the prevailing narrative of the Anti British Broadcasting Corporation . . . NO Minister,. . .that just wouldn't do,. . .it wouldn't do at all. . . . .

 

The writers of 'SPITTING IMAGE' and their latex puppets,. . . were even more surgically vicious in their portrayal of Government in Britain. . . utter comedic Brilliance. . . .

 

 

[farri]

[Phil Perry]

I think Phil's been watching "yes Minister". If we gave some credit when they do the right thing perhaps they wouldn't be so cowed at the monstering they get by the media. It's made to look the way it does by editing replies out of context and even unabashed photoshopping and we don't question it, enough or be suitably sceptical of their "VIEWS". I "read it in the paper" is never a proper reason to give something any credibility what ever. People also buy the papers that tell them what they want to hear to a great extent I reinforces their existing views. Trump can claim the Media are liars and be fairly correct. They have well earned the distrust they get (and more) Nev.

 

OK Nev,. . .if someone could just point me to a desision which CIVIL SERVANTS HAVE MADE. or they have EVER made which was lauded as 'Sensible' in the circumstances, then I would back off my critique. I'm not arguing with your post as such BTW, the BBC relies upon editing reports to swing the essence of any story the other way. . .'Lying by Omission' I think is the term in vogue. . .

 

With regard to the general broadcast media, ie ABBC / SKYnews etc. . . I suspect that you may already know my personal feelings in that respect . . .

 

I hope that Murdoch buys them out, because he is a nasty bugger, and it would be nice to have some 'Normal / Central' bias for a change. . . .He couldn't do much worse then the lefty crap we are presented with here on ALL mainstream TV and radio channels 24/7. . . .Even the commercial stations are following the Lefty mantra. . .it' easy to see why a lot of sheeple believe what it says on the news. . . . .Counter intuitive and contra to sensible logic to those who have an ounce of thought and more than two active brain cells, for the future of this country and it's children though it may all be. . .

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I hope that Murdoch buys them out, because he is a nasty bugger, and it would be nice to have some 'Normal / Central' bias for a change. . . .He couldn't do much worse then the lefty crap we are presented with here on ALL mainstream TV and radio channels 24/7. . .

Oh dear Phil, you might have gone a bit far this time. Have a look at what Murdoch has done to American democracy.

 

 

[facthunter]

Perhaps Phil, people are giving up on the assumption that the market will fix all ills when all it does is seek the maximum profit in the shortest time frame. Toll roads in this country are being seen as a good example, where you pay serious money to be stuck in long traffic jambs, while tolls are increased.. I can't stand the BBC either but you can change to another station if it affects your sanity. Britain does things I can't understand. They accept a level of surveillance at the highest level in the world, seemingly without question, as an example. They also have unelected people in the Upper House and agonise over "CLASS", whatever that is..Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

What has Murdoch done to American democracy? Better still what is American democracy?

 

When G W Bush wanted to bomb Iraq from Turkish airbases, the Turks said "No" So a US general got up and publicly said words to the effect that What are they Turkey is a democracy, so they should go along with the USA. He failed to see that a democracy allows people to say No.

 

Look at how the USA is run, they have a president who is all powerful, practicly a dictator and they think he is Gods man on earth. At least they did until Donald came along but now they seem to be having second thoughts. Just look at history and how USA has interfered with the elections of other countries and also riddden roughshod over other countries who have had elected governments.

 

The Yanks seem to think that they can define any word, including democracy to suit their aims only.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh dear Phil, you might have gone a bit far this time. Have a look at what Murdoch has done to American democracy.

OK Sir,. . .perhaps your man Murdoch was not the best example ! ! ! In this regard, I mentioned him as he is doing his utmost to own the Entire SKY business, the one bit he doesn't control is SKY NEWS. He owns a very popular daily tabloid called the SUN, which varies from centre right, to further right in it's political narrative, but it is a little TOO right to the point of being downright silly some of the time, which is why I don't bother with it. SKY 'News' however, does not even try to conceal is incredibly blatant left wing bias in everything, in every news bulletin or polly show, most of it's 'News' output being a cabon copy of what it just heard / saw on 'Aunty Beeb'

 

Murdoch is being held up on his plan by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission, who think he has already got too much control of British media. . . the battle goes on in secret, I've no doubt he'll get his way in the end, blokes like him always do. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Perhaps Phil, people are giving up on the assumption that the market will fix all ills when all it does is seek the maximum profit in the shortest time frame. Toll roads in this country are being seen as a good example, where you pay serious money to be stuck in long traffic jambs, while tolls are increased.. I can't stand the BBC either but you can change to another station if it affects your sanity. Britain does things I can't understand. They accept a level of surveillance at the highest level in the world, seemingly without question, as an example. They also have unelected people in the Upper House and agonise over "CLASS", whatever that is..Nev

 

You'll get no argument from me on 'Market Forces' Nev, . . . I have the North end of the Only major Toll road in the UK starting in my town, the M6 Toll. . .this 37 mile long 3 lane freeway, which cost £900 Million to build, was paid for by some big banks and a considerable amount of investment dollars from Australia too. . . I never use it, unless I'm damned late for a flight at Birmingham Airport, as it can shave a half hour on average, to get there. Too expensive, the tolls increase year after year, but the usage remains fairly steady and the tolls do not catch up with the interest on the borrowed money, so it was and is basically a failed project which will never break even, let alone turn a profit for anyone.

 

I see your point in going to another channel if I don't like what's on the Beeb, the problem is that we only have Four main national news outlets in the UK, Channel Four, which is part owned by the BBC anyway ( ! ) ITV, which is another commercial station (as is Ch4) and SKY News. When all four preach an identical gospel, there's no escaping it for a lot of people, unless they go to 'Alternative' news sources on the internet, with the ever present potential of a 'Different' kind of Fake News too,. . . but possibly just as twisted one way or T'other. . .

 

The surveillance thing has been a thorny issue for years, to the point where a lage number of CCTV camera have been decommissioned in London, as there simply isn't the staff to monitor them all ! But there are still enough to catch drivers craftily eating a banana whilst sitting in stationary jams, then you get the £60.00 fine and three points on your licence for this heinous crime. The only PLUS side of these cameras is that they have been catching loads of loonies who persist in using a hand held mobile phone whils driving along. . .these people need flogging. At the moment they get a £200.00 fine and Six demerit points on their licence, 12 and you're banned for six months.

 

On the subject of CLASS,. . .this is an odd one, in this day and age, but it is still rampant amongst the 'Elite' . . .where they call it 'CLARSE' . . .if you tend to drop your 'Aitches' when speaking, you'll always be regarded as an occupant of the lower end of the class spectrum ! If you have no blue blood, or don't know anyone in the aristocracy, you are a permanent outsider, ie an OIK.

 

Unelected 'Lords' yes, a bone of contention if there ever was one. There ARE some very notable 'Hereditary' peers who are eminent in their respective fields, whether this be Law, Medicine or commerce, who have been instrumental in guiding our governance for a very long time. Regrettably, over the decadess, much accelerated during fifteen year reign of terror, starting in 1997, the upper house has been continually stuffed with failed business people, exx Members of Parliament, and many other totally unqualified party political 'Placemen' ( and women ) who are gifted these positions by the incumbent government in the 'New Year Honours List' where the incumbent Prime Minister sends Her Majesty a list of cronies for elevation to Knighthoods, Orders of the Garter and other bloody stupid pointless titles, all for previous 'Services Rendered' ( Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink )

 

There are around 850 of these twots in the HOL. there are only 600 places to sit ! ! 95% of them don't speak in the house, nor do anything, they just drive in, sign the book, and get paid a £300.00 per day attendance fee. Then they go back to their Golf, or country clubs for the rest of the day. . nice work if you can get it. . ..money for old rope. . .

 

( See there ?. . I mentioned MONEY so I'm back on topic YAY ! )

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Look at how the USA is run, they have a president who is all powerful, practicably a dictator and they think he is Gods man on earth."

 

And Australian's want a republic here, I would prefer a CD, Constitutional Democracy.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Yenn]

If the US President it practically a dictator, why couldn't Obama get his health care and other promised legislation passed?

 

Even trump has not had it all his own way.

 

 

[facthunter]

The US president has prescribed powers, but if the Congress isn't under his control there is all sorts of obstruction possible. Fillibustering etc. The republicans have the numbers in both houses. Plenty of Republicans are not too excited about Trump.

 

IF Australia becomes a republic the main change is the house of Windsor will not be providing someone to be our head of state and we won't have a governor General to be her representative. We would presumably have a president but how that person would be elected/ appointed and what power they would hold must be addressed. Do they rank above the leader of the Parliament (lower house) for instance? Nev