Republican win

[Marty_d]

"Come the time, come the man", is an old proverb. Perhaps I am just a wishful thinker but something needs to change.

I agree with that Methusala, but I don't think Trump is the next great hope you're waiting for. Perhaps Bernie Sanders would have been.

 

I also agree that reducing tension between Russia and the US is in everyone's interest. However letting a foreign country interfere with your internal election (if not actually colluding with them, as intelligence seems to point to) will not reduce tension, all it'll do is increase tension between the US president and his intelligence services, leaving the head of the country effectively blind and deaf to whatever he doesn't agree with.

 

As to the media, has anyone considered that perhaps the reason there's so much negative coverage of Trump is because it's caused by Trump himself? His vitriolic tweets and verbal statements are often very similar to a schoolyard bully. He lashes out whenever anyone criticizes him. His lack of diplomacy and ill-considered statements have already alienated China and much of Europe. All this before he actually takes office... what's he going to do when he's president?

 

 

[Methusala]

It's nice that you harbour so much positive hope. I truly hope you are right. Personally, though, based on observed behaviour of politicians over the years, I'm preparing for the worst.I agree that Hillary seems very dangerous. My point is that Donny is an unknown quantity so it is not sensible to prejudge. Time will tell.

I was a young adolescent during the 60's and I remember clearly that we believed that by mass protest action we could change the course of politics. I marched in George St in 1968 against the Vietnamese war. Through the election of the Whitlam Labor govt in December 1972, that aim was achieved. My generation saw many of society's distortions, hangovers from the 19th century overcome through political action. Equal pay for women as well as maternity leave and housing loans available to unmarried women. These things seem so anachronistic only the span of my adult life later. Expressing 'No Dams", on a Tasmanian ballot paper prompted Hawke to invoke federal powers to save the Franklin River. I also gathered with thousands of others on the lawns of Parliament house in 2003 to demand "No War" on Iraq. However times had changed allowing Howard to expostulate that he was not going to listen to,"The Mob!" This in a democracy!

 

So we come to this stage where the first African/American US president has presided over savage wars against the African civilian population and is being mourned by so called 'progressives'. This while he has done nothing to help the "Black Lives Matter" movement.

 

I DO HOPE that people will become active again, and that writers, artists and community leaders will defy the politicians purse strings and lead common people back into political radicalism. My kids and their kids need a hand.

 

 

[octave]

I was a young adolescent during the 60's and I remember clearly that we believed that by mass protest action we could change the course of politics. I marched in George St in 1968 against the Vietnamese war. Through the election of the Whitlam Labor govt in December 1972, that aim was achieved. My generation saw many of society's distortions, hangovers from the 19th century overcome through political action. Equal pay for women as well as maternity leave and housing loans available to unmarried women. These things seem so anachronistic only the span of my adult life later. Expressing 'No Dams", on a Tasmanian ballot paper prompted Hawke to invoke federal powers to save the Franklin River. I also gathered with thousands of others on the lawns of Parliament house in 2003 to demand "No War" on Iraq. However times had changed allowing Howard to expostulate that he was not going to listen to,"The Mob!" This in a democracy!

So we come to this stage where the first African/American US president has presided over savage wars against the African civilian population and is being mourned by so called 'progressives'. This while he has done nothing to help the "Black Lives Matter" movement.

 

I DO HOPE that people will become active again, and that writers, artists and community leaders will defy the politicians purse strings and lead common people back into political radicalism. My kids and their kids need a hand.

 

 

Meth a genuine question, do you believe that during you lifetime things have become worse or have improved. This is not a trick question and I am genuinely interested in your answer.

 

 

[nomadpete]

My thought bubble, Meth:

 

Isn't democracy supposed to be government decided by the will of 'the mob' ? (WRT your comment about Mr Howard disregarding the will of the people)

 

Assuming that the mob is voicing what the majority wants?

 

If so, perhaps we need to develop decision making controlled by opinion polls?

 

 

[Methusala]

Meth a genuine question, do you believe that during you lifetime things have become worse or have improved. This is not a trick question and I am genuinely interested in your answer.

Dear Octave, I am genuinely humbled by your question and, seeing it is quite late, I will sleep on it before answering. Hope that you are not in a hurry,Don

 

 

[Methusala]

In 1956 my maternal Grandfather died of stomach cancer. There was nothing medically they could do for him. When he died he had a 1928 Ford Roadster. The house had an ice box, a primitive gas cooking range, a copper and mangle for clothes washing and an outside toilet. It was located in Northcote, Melbourne. Ice, bread and milk were delivered by horse and cart. Television may have arrived but the price of a set was prohibitive. George had been employed as a proofreader in the newspaper industry. In the 60 years since then, progress has made that world almost unrecognisable to us. Right now babies are being exposed to the world via mother's i-phone, carelessly handed over as a babysitter. Miracle cures abound for all manner of medical problems. Cars are sophisticated beyond belief. Houses include every possible comfort. Communications extend globally from everyone's pocket and the internet opens the libraries of the world instantly to all.

 

So, of course, things have improved almost immeasurably.

 

However, the world's population is soaring towards 10 billion. I have just returned from my first visit to China. The urban population is wealthy and expect to become more so. The city I visited had advanced mass transit in place. The roads were choked with private cars, busses and goods vehicles. Super highways and bullet trains extended between cities. The air quality was awful. A local contact told me that many people can avoid the authorities attempt to ration car numbers on bad air days by owning 2 cars. One with rego number ending in evens; the other in odds. After 2 weeks my wife and I were pleased to flee.

 

This was a stark revelation of just where advanced technological society is headed. Australia has a current net immigration of 1/4 million people pa. Canberra is noticeably more crowded these days. I imagine that in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane the nightmare is much worse.

 

This is but the problem of advanced societies. In the 3rd World, these problems are magnified by extreme orders of magnitude. Wars, dispossession, famines and disease are intolerable burdens.

 

Mixed bag really, but plenty of problems on the door step. Sorry for the rant.

 

 

[old man emu]

Isn't democracy supposed to be government decided by the will of 'the mob' ? (WRT your comment about Mr Howard disregarding the will of the people)Assuming that the mob is voicing what the majority wants? If so, perhaps we need to develop decision making controlled by opinion polls?

Howard was the most Victorian era politician of the late 20th Century. It was he who inserted the words "between a man and a woman" into the Marriage Act, and it his political descendant's ignore the opinion of the majority of people that these words be deleted from the Act. Delete these words, gender definition of marriage deleted. Government involvement in personal relationships diminished. After all, the Marriage Act deals mainly with the identification of the marrying parties; authorisation of persons to conduct marriages, and the format to be used to comply with the legality of the marriage; and the creation of official records of the marriage.

 

What is interesting is that the Act does not contain a section which states the purpose for which the Act was created. Most other Acts have wording similar to "An Act to provide for ..."

 

OME

 

 

[octave]

[

 

Sorry for the rant.

No need to apologise, I did ask and that was not a rant - this is a rant...........

 

Thanks for that Meth.

 

Apologies for thread drift.

 

The short version is this. I have not had to work as hard as my father. I have had the freedom to be the architect of my own life. I am far from wealthy but I can afford to fly regularly. My son is wealthier than me and has been able to build a great life doing what he loves.

 

I am not dismissing the fact that many humans around the world live appalling lives that would make any complaints I have just seem absurd.

 

OK now for the long rambling self indulgent version, and this is not meant to be any sort of argument against anyone, it is just my opinion.

 

i am really just referring to my own experience of life and for comparison my father's life and my son's.

 

My father (b1928) grew up in England in great poverty. He enlisted in the Royal Navy and served in Korea. After a few years in the merchant navy he married and had my sister and myself. At the time he had to worked 6 days a week. Luckily for me when I was 2 we came to live in Australia (as ten pound poms). In Australia my father eventually got a factory job and my mother returned to nursing. My father worked 5 and a half days a week. We were able to buy a modest house. As wages improved my parents were able to give my sister and I plenty of educational opportunities and hobbies.

 

Eventually I joined the RAAF and for many years had the least onerous but reasonably well payed job. During this time my father had the first of 3 medical emergencies, at any previous time in history he would not have survived. From my house outside of Sydney I could see the city skyline usually shrouded in smog. I do remember in the early 80s that the weather report would include smog alerts.

 

When we had a child my wife took maternity leave and I took long service leave, I enjoyed this so much that I left the military and stayed home with my son whilst my wife went back to full time work. We quickly realised that there must be better ways to live so we sold up and bought 40 acres of bush in the country where we owner built our house.

 

My son's education was unusual and interesting but I don't want to digress or ramble. When my son was 10 he became very keen on computers as well as cars. He combined these two interests and came up with an idea for a computer game based on automotive engineering. We of course were supportive but sceptical. Now at the age of 27 my son has his own very successful independent games development company with 6 full time employees. he moved his business to NZ a couple of years ago. Whilst my own small business is limited to a geographical area my son can operate his business from any location his customer base is the whole industrialised world. I think he considers himself a citizen of the world rather than an Australian or New Zealander.

 

When I think about whether things are better or worse I tend towards thinking that my life has been easy and rewarding compared to my father's and my son's life appears to be more exciting and rewarding than mine.

 

My father lived through poverty and served in a war.

 

At the age of 10 I can remember being relieved when conscription ended, I grew up watching the Vietnam war on the news every night. I am thankful that I was too young to conscripted. I do remember IRA terrorism in Northern Ireland and bombings in London. This was also the era of much terrorism, hijackings etc Baader Mienhoff PLO and many more.

 

Whilst many consider that we live in dangerous times, I grew up in Adelaide where all parents were terrified and instilled terror into their children regarding child abductions. This was the era of the disappearance of the Beaumont children as well as the girls that disappeared from Adelaide oval and the Truro serial killings. I truly believe that we live in safer times now.

 

My son benefited from the time we devote to his upbringing, we were able to trade time for income. I do not think this would have been so easy in the past.

 

The point of me bringing this topic up is that I am increasingly perplexed by this age of anger that we seem to be in, the so called angry white men (I hate using this term). Whilst I understand that job insecurity can be worrying all but the poorest of us still live lives better than previous generations.

 

I seem to recall someone (I think on this forum) celebrate the Brexit vote as a "taking back power from the elites and experts". I was struck by the quote "we have listened to the experts and look where it has got us". It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch "what have the Romans ever done for us?" other than increased life expectancy in a better state of health. Better communications, overseas airfares that were certainly out of the reach of the average working family in the past etc. etc.

 

This is just my experience of my life. There are many issues to be angry about but I am not part of discriminated or downtrodden group. The way I earn my living is increasing difficult due to changing technology but I will not waste energy whinging I will just have to adapt.

 

I do have sympathy for the disadvantaged folks but I am increasingly irritated by those who are doing alright but still like to whinge.

 

As a person who's income is probably less than the average, by being careful I can even afford my fortnightly flight.

 

 

[Yenn]

Well Octave, you seem to be doing OK. I come from a bit earlier times than you but later than your father. Life has been excellent, good hard work but I enjoyed it, then easier more responsible work, until I retired. My kids have had good lives and my son has retired in reasonable comfort.

 

Now comes the hard part. My grandson no 1 lives in the Sydney area and earning 3 times more than I ever earned there is no way he will ever own a house there. My Granddaughter is in similar circumstances. The general health of the population is poorer now than mine ever was.

 

Worst of all is what the politicians are doing to this country. They are either rorting the system for their own financial gain, or passing legislation which is to the detriment of Australian citizens, or withholding information about deals they are doing to promot etheir parties prospects.

 

I don't think we would be any worse off if we had a Donald Trump style PM.

 

 

[SDQDI]

For me, we are a lot better off materialistically (is that a word?) than my previous generations BUT I think we are worse off as far as person to person respect/relations go.

 

I think maybe we would be better off with a little less if it meant society as a whole respected each other more.

 

It is a bit of a see saw really, it is hard to give an overall result better/worse as so many things affect it. Just look at social media/internet, an aweful lot of good comes from it but also some horrid effects are also felt. Are we better off with it? I'm not sure, we have a world of knowledge at our fingertips but also the biggest key to unsocial behaviour.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Thought this was remarkably apt...

 

Bush Counting Down Days Until He Is No Longer Worst President in History

 

 

[Methusala]

Already happened...meet Barac!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you haven't read it yet the Buzzfeed Trump dossier makes for some interesting reading. Makes you wonder what America is in for over the next few years. I'm guessing a lot more debt and a war

 

Trump Intelligence Allegations

 

 

[Bruce]

I'm Yenn's generation and I think we had the best of times in many ways. Harry Schneider used to import gliders , several packed into a container, for stock. My first house was a new one and the mortgage was $40 a month out of a salary of $360 a month. I could afford to go gliding and have a wife at teachers college.

 

These days none of this would be possible. The only young people we see are from rich families.

 

Sure, the houses and cars were not air-conditioned but this at least got us outdoors in hot weather.

 

And we thought the world was going to get better... "The times they are a changing" we thought was real.

 

There have been gliding clubs actually close down for the lack of younger people and I find this sad. Looking back, the high point of gliding was in the 1970's.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Already happened...meet Barac!

Oh yes... the only president to bring in healthcare insurance for poor people... the one who had a presidency remarkably free of scandal, who handled the slings and arrows of lesser men with dignity, who gave the entire nation hope and proved to black people that they could aspire to the highest office in the land... is that the one you mean?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Trump has nominated 5 former Goldman Sachs executives, this guy is great

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

In the 60 years since then, progress has made that world almost unrecognisable to us. Right now babies are being exposed to the world via mother's i-phone, carelessly handed over as a babysitter. Miracle cures abound for all manner of medical problems. Cars are sophisticated beyond belief. Houses include every possible comfort. Communications extend globally from everyone's pocket and the internet opens the libraries of the world instantly to all.So, of course, things have improved almost immeasurably.

Yes, thanks to Capitalism!

 

However, the world's population is soaring towards 10 billion..

The earths resources can easily handle many times the current population and we have barely started to use the space. That isn't something to worry about at all.

 

The problem with mankind is not numbers but sin. People will kill each other off well before we run out of resources. You need to get to a point where you acknowledge the means and resources and knowledge are all available but there is a problem and that flaw is undeniable and lies within each of us.

 

I talk to many people from third world countries. Every one of them agrees that forces like corruption and greed are holding these places back and making peoples lives miserable. It is easy to see this in other people and especially in our leaders and to blame them. But it is more humbling to realise that actually the exact same darkness and potential to do wrong is within ourselves also.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The earths resources can easily handle many times the current population and we have barely started to use the space. That isn't something to worry about at all.

That only works if you ignore a few inconvenient facts.

 

The problem with mankind is not numbers but sin.

 

 

[Methusala]

Yes, thanks to Capitalism!

I suggest that the ignorant should get out more. Life is more than flippant remarks that require 0.000001sec to churn (chunder) out

 

 

[Yenn]

Got to get away from all that Sin.

 

Remember that the meek shall inherit the earth. After the miners have completely ruined it.

 

 

[octave]

The earths resources can easily handle many times the current population and we have barely started to use the space. That isn't something to worry about at all.

That is a rather big statement, it really would be more convincing if it came with supporting argument.

 

Are you suggesting that there is no limit to the population the Earth can support. Would the Earth cope even with the present population if 1.2 billion Indians and 1.3 billion Chinese lived at the standard of living we do?

 

Australia may seem like a large and relatively empty country but it is naive to believe that all that land area could be used for a never ending increase in population Just consider this, although the average Australian may live on around about a quarter of an acre or much less in urban areas they still need an amount of land to sustain them. every member of our society requires an amount of land to grow the food they eat, to supply the energy that they use etc. .

 

The Earth is a finite closed system, whilst I am sure many of us may disagree on the actual number the Earth can sustain, nothing can grow forever. In my lifetime the population has more than doubled, from around 3.5 billion to over 7 Billion so in the next 50ish years 14 billion then 28 billion,56 billion 112 billion etc

 

Apart from that, what is so good about a constantly growing population?, why is 12 billion better than 6 billion? It is interesting that as a country's level of education rises and their standard of living and healthcare rises the reproduction rate tends to reduce. I think it is time for us to ask if more is better.

 

 

[Bruce]

Gnarly, there are several examples of collapse in history, but to use one example, what do you think happened to the Easter Islanders a few hundred years ago?

 

My understanding is that they became overpopulated and resource-depleted. In particular, they had cut down the trees which they needed to make canoes for fishing.

 

Easter Island in the Pacific is chillingly similar to the Earth in the solar system.

 

Do you have an alternative explanation of how Easter Island went from a population of 30,000 statue-builders down to 3,000 cannibals in a great collapse?

 

 

[dutchroll]

Yes, thanks to Capitalism!..................Every one of them agrees that forces like corruption and greed are holding these places back and making peoples lives miserable.

When left unchecked and unregulated, one of these leads directly to the other. Always.

 

 

[Yenn]

I just hope that all those who think the population can keep on rising stay in Brisbane or whichever city they like, because it is geting too damn crowded out here in the bush.

 

When I came to the gladstone area in 1970. Gladstone was a town and I can't remeber a set of traffic lights, even though the main highway went right through the town. Now it is a city complete with dozens of traffic lights and traffic to match. The other thing to note is that it would be a lousy place to live. Yesterday I was at one of the most desirable residential areas, but the noise of industry was well beyond peaceful.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

how good was trump's inauguration? 250,000 deplorables compared to 1.8M for Obama

 

The only good thing to come out of the day was that Richard Spencer video