DISGUSTED WITH THIS. . . .

[Phil Perry]

I dunno about you folks, but people who post sh1t like this,. . .and I DON'T CARE whether it is staged in Birmingham, Baghdad, Sydney, Syria or Mogadishu . . . . deserve shooting. What the feck does this crap achieve ? ? ? ?

 

Bloody disgusted.

 

[ATTACH]48016._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[dutchroll]

Yeah it's a sad indictment of the darker side of human nature.

 

Kids aren't born to be terrorists (just as they're not born with a particular religion). They're educated that way by their parents. If they're caught at a young enough age they could be un-brainwashed but if they're trapped in that environment into their teen years they're most likely screwed.

 

 

[bull]

One thing I can never understand is why people follow these cults,even joining them after years of "normal life'' as islam to me is the worst cult of them all,and before I get shut down ,just look at every major terrorist event and it will be Islamic.

 

.

 

 

[dutchroll]

..... before I get shut down ,just look at every major terrorist event and it will be Islamic..

Mmmmm.....depends on where you look and by discounting a significant string of "minor" terrorist events you're also distorting the numbers a bit.

 

Tim McVeigh executed 168 people in a carefully planned bombing in 1995 in Oklahoma city. He was a white, Christian, born and bred American, anti-government libertarian.

 

In the 15 years until the Orlando nightclub shooting, white extremists in the United States had murdered more people than Islamic extremists. Of course if you look at data from the Middle East where the wars are being waged, it's true that Islamic extremists are mostly responsible for terror bombings and slaughter - by default.

 

The white extremist murders include:

 

2004 - Christopher Lay murdered a guard in a bank robbery. He had a list of people he was going after whom he deemed responsible for the Government intervention in the Waco siege.

 

2008 - Jim Adkinson killed two and injured seven others in a rage against gays and liberals.

 

2009 - Keith Luke, neo Nazi, killed two men and raped and critically injured a woman because they weren't white.

 

2009 - Robert Poplawski, an anti-government white supremacist, ambushed and murdered 3 police officers.

 

2009 - Albert Gaxiola, Shawna Forde and Joshua Bush murdered a man and his 9 year old daughter. They were robbing the house to help fund their anti-immigrant organisation.

 

2009 - James von Brunn, neo Nazi and white supremacist, murdered a security guard and injured a bystander in a planned attack at the US Holocaust museum.

 

2010 - Andrew Stack, anti-government libertarian, crashed a light plane into the IRS building in Austin Texas, killing one person.

 

2010 - Raymond Peake murdered a man at a gun range in Carlisle Pennsylvania so he could steal an AR-15 assault rifle to use with an organisation seeking to overthrow the US government.

 

2011 - David Pederson murdered 4 people to "reclaim our country" and help "purify and preserve the white race".

 

2012 - White supremacist militia group "FEAR" murdered 4 people in Georgia, including Michael Roark and his girlfriend who had discovered their plans. They were planning many more and had amassed a stockpile of weapons to use.

 

2012 - Wade Michael Page, neo nazi and white supremacist, murdered 6 people at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin.

 

2012 - Terry Smith and accomplices from the anti-government "Sovereign Citizens Movement" ambushed and murdered 2 police officers in St John's Parish.

 

2014 - Frazier Cross, white supremacist and Ku Klux Clan member, murdered 3 people at Kansas City Jewish institutions. He shouted "Heil Hitler!" as he was arrested.

 

2014 - Jerad Miller, anti-government libertarian, ambushed and murdered two police officers then murdered a bystander in a parking lot in Las Vegas. They discovered a written manifesto where he planned to target others.

 

2014 - Eric Frein, anti-government libertarian murdered one police officer and wounded another. They discovered a letter where he called for a revolution and planned to commit mass murder against Government and law enforcement.

 

2015 - Dylan Roof, white supremacist and racist, murdered 9 black people at a church service in Charleston, stating "You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go."

 

2015 - Robert Dear, Christian anti-abortionist, murdered 3 people and wounded 9 others in a planned attack on behalf of "the Army of God" at a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Colorado.

 

Sobering reading huh? Imagine if they'd managed to carry out the rest of their plans or they hadn't been really poor marksmen!

 

I sometimes wonder how many people of similar mindset we have lurking in Australia, but who we're ignoring because Islamic extremists are our "only problem"?

 

 

[bull]

Mmmmm.....depends on where you look and by discounting a significant string of "minor" terrorist events you're also distorting the numbers a bit.

Tim McVeigh executed 168 people in a carefully planned bombing in 1995 in Oklahoma city. He was a white, Christian, born and bred American, anti-government libertarian.

 

In the 15 years until the Orlando nightclub shooting, white extremists in the United States had murdered more people than Islamic extremists. Of course if you look at data from the Middle East where the wars are being waged, it's true that Islamic extremists are mostly responsible for terror bombings and slaughter - by default.

 

The white extremist murders include:

 

2004 - Christopher Lay murdered a guard in a bank robbery. He had a list of people he was going after whom he deemed responsible for the Government intervention in the Waco siege.

 

2008 - Jim Adkinson killed two and injured seven others in a rage against gays and liberals.

 

2009 - Keith Luke, neo Nazi, killed two men and raped and critically injured a woman because they weren't white.

 

2009 - Robert Poplawski, an anti-government white supremacist, ambushed and murdered 3 police officers.

 

2009 - Albert Gaxiola, Shawna Forde and Joshua Bush murdered a man and his 9 year old daughter. They were robbing the house to help fund their anti-immigrant organisation.

 

2009 - James von Brunn, neo Nazi and white supremacist, murdered a security guard and injured a bystander in a planned attack at the US Holocaust museum.

 

2010 - Andrew Stack, anti-government libertarian, crashed a light plane into the IRS building in Austin Texas, killing one person.

 

2010 - Raymond Peake murdered a man at a gun range in Carlisle Pennsylvania so he could steal an AR-15 assault rifle to use with an organisation seeking to overthrow the US government.

 

2011 - David Pederson murdered 4 people to "reclaim our country" and help "purify and preserve the white race".

 

2012 - White supremacist militia group "FEAR" murdered 4 people in Georgia, including Michael Roark and his girlfriend who had discovered their plans. They were planning many more and had amassed a stockpile of weapons to use.

 

2012 - Wade Michael Page, neo nazi and white supremacist, murdered 6 people at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin.

 

2012 - Terry Smith and accomplices from the anti-government "Sovereign Citizens Movement" ambushed and murdered 2 police officers in St John's Parish.

 

2014 - Frazier Cross, white supremacist and Ku Klux Clan member, murdered 3 people at Kansas City Jewish institutions. He shouted "Heil Hitler!" as he was arrested.

 

2014 - Jerad Miller, anti-government libertarian, ambushed and murdered two police officers then murdered a bystander in a parking lot in Las Vegas. They discovered a written manifesto where he planned to target others.

 

2014 - Eric Frein, anti-government libertarian murdered one police officer and wounded another. They discovered a letter where he called for a revolution and planned to commit mass murder against Government and law enforcement.

 

2015 - Dylan Roof, white supremacist and racist, murdered 9 black people at a church service in Charleston, stating "You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go."

 

2015 - Robert Dear, Christian anti-abortionist, murdered 3 people and wounded 9 others in a planned attack on behalf of "the Army of God" at a Planned Parenthood Clinic in Colorado.

 

Sobering reading huh? Imagine if they'd managed to carry out the rest of their plans or they hadn't been really poor marksmen!

 

I sometimes wonder how many people of similar mindset we have lurking in Australia, but who we're ignoring because Islamic extremists are our "only problem"?

But I,ll put up list of Islamic related acts for just the last 12 months,,your period is spreadout over 11years And look at the amount of casualties in these attacks,,,,,,c,mon be a bit REAL about this ,ok and this list is not all attacks ,only proven Islamic attacks ok.........wake up people......

 

• Russia December 29, 2015 – A gunman opened fire on a group of local residents who were visiting a viewing platform at the fortress in Derbent, Dagestan, southern Russia, killing one and injuring 11. ISIL claims responsibility.[202]
   
  

 

2016

 

• Afghanistan January 1, 2016 – A Taliban suicide bomber detonated himself in a French restaurant called 'Le Jardin' in Kabul. 2 dead 15 injured.[203]
   
  
• India January 2, 2016 – In the 2016 Pathankot attack suspected Jaish-e-Mohammed militants attacked an Indian air base killing 7 security force members. Several injured.[204]
   
  
• Iraq January 3, 2016 – Five Islamist suicide bombers attack an Iraqi military base. 15 dead and 22 injured.[205]
   
  
• Afghanistan January 4, 2016 – A Militant drove a truck packed with explosives to the armored gates of a compound for civilian contractors near Kabul's airport before detonating. 30 people injured, including children.[206]
   
  
• Libya January 7, 2016 – In the Zliten truck bombing Islamist militants detonated a truck bomb at the police training camp al-Jahfal in the coastal town of Zliten, Libya. 50+ dead 100+ wounded.[207]
   
  
• France January 7, 2016 – In the January 2016 Paris police station attack an Islamist from Morocco wearing a fake explosive belt attacked police officers with a meat cleaver. He was shot dead.[208]
   
  
• Libya January 7, 2016 – A car bombing at a checkpoint in the Libyan oil port of Ras Lanuf left seven people dead and 11 wounded.[209]
   
  
• Egypt January 8, 2016 – In the 2016 Hurghada attack two militants armed with a melee weapon and a signal flare stormed the Bella Vista Hotel. 3 injured.[210]
   
  
• France January 11, 2016 – A 15-year old Turkish ISIL supporter attacked a teacher from a Jewish school in Marseille with a machete. 1 injured.[211]
   
  
• Iraq January 11, 2016 – ISIL gunmen detonate suicide vests in a shopping mall, killing at least 20 and wounding more than 40 people.[212]
   
  
• Turkey January 12, 2016 – In the 2016 Istanbul bombing an ISIL suicide bomber kills 10 tourists and injures 15 more in the historical centre of Istanbul.[213]
   
  
• Indonesia January 14, 2016 – In the 2016 Jakarta attacks 4 assailants kill 2 and injure 24 in a terrorist attack in Jakarta. The attack was orchestrated and financed from ISIL in Syria.[214]
   
  
• Somalia January 15, 2016 – In the El Adde attack, Al-Shabaab terrorists attack a African Union Kenyan army base in El-Adde. 63+ killed, several injured.[215]
   
  
• Burkina Faso January 15, 2016 – In the 2016 Ouagadougou attack Islamist gunmen armed with heavy weapons attacked the Cappuccino restaurant and the Splendid Hotel in the heart of Ouagadougou, the capital of Burkina Faso. 20+ killed. 15+ injured.[216]
   
  
• Pakistan January 21, 2016 – At least 22 killed in attack on Bacha Khan University, Pakistan. The Taliban claim responsibility for the attack.[217]
   
  
• Somalia January 22, 2016 – Al-Shabab attack on beachside restaurant leaves 20 dead.[218]
   
  
• Cameroon January 25, 2016 – Suspected Boko Haram insurgents have blown themselves up in a market in Cameroon, killing at least 25 people and injuring 62 others.[219]
   
  
• Nigeria January 30, 2016 – Boko Haram gunmen raided a Nigerian village, at least 65 people were killed and 136 others injured.[220]
   
  
• Ivory Coast March 13, 2016 – In the 2016 Grand-Bassam shootings Al Qaeda gunmen stormed 3 hotels in the beach resort city of Grand-Bassam in the Ivory Coast, leaving 18 people dead.[221]
   
  
• Iraq March 20, 2016 – In Anbar, Iraq, ISIL suicide bombers kill at least 24 at municipal building[222]
   
  
• Belgium March 22, 2016 – 2016 Brussels bombings includes two suicide bombings in Brussels Airport and one bombing in Brussels Metro that resulted in 35 deaths and more than 300 wounded.[223]
   
  
• Yemen March 25, 2016 – Three ISIL suicide bombers strike security checkpoints in the Yemeni city of Aden, killing 26 people.[224][225]
   
  
• Iraq March 25, 2016 – 30 people killed and 95 injured after a suicide bomber blew himself up at a football stadium in Iskandariya, south of Baghdad. ISIL claimed responsibility for the attack.[226][227]
   
  
• Pakistan March 27, 2016 – The 2016 Lahore suicide bombing targeted Christians who had gathered on Easter in Gulshan-e-Iqbal Park. The blast, by Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, a Pakistani Taliban faction, killed at least 70 people and injured 300 others.[228][229]
   
  
• Afghanistan April 19, 2016 – The April 2016 Kabul attack targeted a security team responsible for protecting government VIPs in Kabul, Afghanistan. The attack killed 64 people and wounded 347. It was the Taliban's biggest attack on an urban area since 2001.[230]
   
  
• Bangladesh April 23, 2016 – Attackers hacked a university professor to death in the city of Rajshahi, Bangladesh. ISIL claimed responsibility for the attack stating that they assassinated him "for calling to atheism in the city of Rajshahi in Bangladesh".[231][232]
   
  
• Bangladesh April 25, 2016 – Two gays rights activists were hacked to death in the capital of Bangladesh, Dhaka. An Al-Qaeda affiliated group claimed responsibility for the attacks and stated they killed the two as they were "pioneers of practicing [sic] and promoting homosexuality in Bangladesh".[233][234]
   
  
• Iraq May 11, 2016 – At least 40 people were killed and 60 injured in a car bomb attack on a market in Baghdad. ISIL claims responsibility.[235]
   
  
• United States June 12, 2016 – 49 people were killed and 53 injured in a mass shooting at a nightclub in Orlando, Florida. The shooter, Omar Mateen, pledged allegiance to ISIL by specifically calling police and journalists several times during the incident.[236][237]
   
  
• France June 14, 2016 – Two French citizens, a police officer and his wife were stabbed to death in Magnanville, France by a man swearing his allegiance to ISIL.[238]
   
  
• Jordan June 21, 2016 - ISIS Soldier infiltrates refugee camp at a Jordanian army post near Rukban, killing 6 and wounding 14.[239] ISIL later claimed responsibility.[240]
   
  
• Pakistan June 22, 2016 – Assassination of Amjad Sabri, claimed by a splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban who accused Sabri of blasphemy.[241]
   
  
• Bangladesh July 1, 2016 – Gunmen killed 20 hostages in the affluent Gulshan Thana neighborhood of Dhaka. Thirteen hostages were rescued; two police officers and six terrorists were killed. One terrorist was taken into custody. ISIL claimed responsibility, but according to Bangladeshi officials, the attack was carried out by homegrown militant group Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh.[242] On August 27, Bangladeshi police killed three militants whom they accused of perpetrating the Dhaka attack, including Tamim Ahmed Chowdhury, a 30-year-old Canadian citizen born in Bangladesh, who was described as "one of the main suppliers of funds and arms for several recent attacks".[243]
   
  
• Iraq July 3, 2016 - July 2016 Baghdad bombings Two coordinated bomb attacks killed over 300 people and injured over 221 others.[244]
   
  
• Indonesia July 4, 2016 - A suicide bomber has attacked a police station in Central Java, killing himself and injuring a police officer.[245]
   
  
• Iraq July 7, 2016 – A coordinated attack involving suicide car bombers, suicide bombers on foot, and gunmen against the mausoleum of Muhammad ibn Ali al-Hadi, a Shi'ite holy site in Baghdad, killed at least 56 people and injured 75. ISIL claimed responsibility.[246]
   
  
• Germany July 18, 2016 – A 17-year-old Afghan refugee injured five people seriously, two critically, with a knife and hatchet on a train near Würzburg. The attacker was shot dead when he attacked the arriving police officers.[247]
   
  
• Germany July 24, 2016 – A suicide bombing outside a wine bar in Ansbach, Germany, in which a bomber tried to bomb a large music festival going on at the time. After detonation, he injured 15, 4 seriously. Many videos were discovered of him pledging allegience to ISIL and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The bomber was the only fatality.[248]
   
  
• France July 26, 2016 – A priest's throat was slit and four nuns were taken hostage in a church in Rouen, France. The IS-linked Amaq news agency said "two soldiers of the Islamic State" had carried out the attack. The two terrorists were shot dead by the French authorities. One of the men was known to the French intelligence services (as reported by French TV channel M6) and was on the French government's terror watch-list, known as the S list.[249]
   
  
• Pakistan August 8, 2016 - 77 people were killed and over 100 injured by a suicide bombing at a government hospital in Quetta, Pakistan. [250]
   
  
• India September 18, 2016 - 2016 Uri attack - Four armed militants attacked on Indian Army brigade headquarters in Uri area of Baramulla district in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India. 18 Soldiers were killed in the ambush and 19
  AND THIS LIST IS ONLY IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS ....wake up people............................
   
  

 

 

[dutchroll]

But I,ll put up list of Islamic related acts for just the last 12 months,,your period is spreadout over 11years And look at the amount of casualties in these attacks,,,,,,c,mon be a bit REAL about this ,ok and this list is not all attacks ,only proven Islamic attacks ok.........wake up people.....

You didn't actually read what I said in the first few lines, did you? At no point did I state Islamic extremism wasn't the world's biggest problem as far as terrorism goes at the moment. I simply stated that it's not the only one.

 

It's not that hard to understand.

 

Who do you care more about, Bull? The university professor hacked to death in Bangladesh? Or the 9 year old girl murdered by the anti-immigrant white guys in the USA?

 

It might surprise you to discover that I think they're both equally abhorrent deeds which need to be addressed by authorities and which should cause people to have a good hard look at themselves and their attitudes. It's not a frigging competition.

 

 

[old man emu]

Meanwhile, in the good ol' US of A

 

[ATTACH]48017._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[bull]

You didn't actually read what I said in the first few lines, did you? At no point did I state Islamic extremism wasn't the world's biggest problem as far as terrorism goes at the moment. I simply stated that it's not the only one.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

Who do you care more about, Bull? The university professor hacked to death in Bangladesh? Or the 9 year old girl murdered by the anti-immigrant white guys in the USA?

 

It might surprise you to discover that I think they're both equally abhorrent deeds which need to be addressed by authorities and which should cause people to have a good hard look at themselves and their attitudes. It's not a frigging competition.

Agreed Dutchy but the worst most pressing problem that needs to be addressed NOW is ISLAMIC TERRORISM I think, and yes you are right ALL of these filthy deeds need to be addressed ,but we as a western society with western culture MUST address the first most violent and pressing problem and the threat to our culture and way of life at hand and that is ISLAMIC TERRORISM is it not? as per this post in the first place..............

 

 

[bull]

Meanwhile, in the good ol' US of A[ATTACH=full]46330[/ATTACH]

Well trained and ready to defend themselves from jihadi,s and preserve their way if life ,our way of life, your way of life,,,,democratic freedom and western values ..And because of our stupid government gun laws and buy backs,, We had better get real good with the shanghigh and boomerang,,,ah mate...............

 

 

[Phil Perry]

One thing I can never understand is why people follow these cults,even joining them after years of "normal life'' as islam to me is the worst cult of them all,and before I get shut down ,just look at every major terrorist event and it will be Islamic..

Hi Bull, I have no intention of starting an 'Islamobash' festival. I simply HATE the brainwashing of little kids, Whoever does it. Kids that age are incapable of understanding any religious narrative and really just want to play.

 

This 'Use' of children also happened recently to one of our neighbours, where a lady carrying a Baby, knocked on the door and gained entry asking if she could sit down for a few minutes as she was 'tired' . .After being invited in, she then proceeded to push her religion. I won't say which one, there are quite a few active 'Door Knocker' cults in the UK. . . My neighbour, a lone elderly lady; had to sit and listen to the religious lecture for an hour, before this woman left. . .

 

The point was, that had she not been carrying the infant, she would not have been invited into the house. 'Heartstring Puller' This works just as well in the plethora of daytime television advertising for various charities, all using little kids as bait.

 

 

[bull]

Hi Bull, I have no intention of starting an 'Islamobash' festival. I simply HATE the brainwashing of little kids, Whoever does it. Kids that age are incapable of understanding any religious narrative and really just want to play.

This 'Use' of children also happened recently to one of our neighbours, where a lady carrying a Baby, knocked on the door and gained entry asking if she could sit down for a few minutes as she was 'tired' . .After being invited in, she then proceeded to push her religion. I won't say which one, there are quite a few active 'Door Knocker' cults in the UK. . . My neighbour, a lone elderly lady; had to sit and listen to the religious lecture for an hour, before this woman left. . .

 

The point was, that had she not been carrying the infant, she would not have been invited into the house. 'Heartstring Puller' This works just as well in the plethora of daytime television advertising for various charities, all using little kids as bait.

Oh dear that's a terrible story there Phil, did the poor lady suffer any duress as in throut cut /rape etc as it would be if it was a visitor from that other religion that we cant talk about ah well as I think she survived her terrifying encounter with minimal damage to her brain or body And Phil I,m not starting an islamobash as you put it WAS just stating facts in answer to dutchy,s post about all the other really bad terrorists out there waiting to kill us that are NOT from that religion that we cant talk about sorry

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Tim McVeigh executed 168 people in a carefully planned bombing in 1995 in Oklahoma city. He was a white, Christian, born and bred American, anti-government libertarian.

(and all the rest...)

In the previous post you claimed people were not born with a religion then you list a bunch of criminals and claim they were all Christian just because they were white and living in the west. I doubt you are stupid enough to believe some of the nonsense you post, just driven by God-hatred. Romans 1v30

 

 

[dutchroll]

In the previous post you claimed people were not born with a religion then you list a bunch of criminals and claim they were all Christian...

Let's take a reading comprehension class, Gnarly Gnu.

 

I did not "claim they were all Christian just because they were white and living in the west".

 

I claimed that 2 of the 18 were Christian.

 

I claimed that 6 of the 18 were white supremacists.

 

I claimed that 3 of the 18 were neo-Nazis.

 

I claimed that one was racist.

 

I claimed that 6 of the 18 were antigovernment libertarians.

 

I claimed that one was an anti-abortionist.

 

I claimed that one was anti-immigrant.

 

In 4 cases, I didn't even claim they were anything!

 

All of these claims are backed by trial/investigation evidence, so have your whinge to the judges.

 

The main thing they had in common was in fact that they were all right-wing extremists, and many of them were members of various white supremacist groups (again, trial evidence Gnu - have a whinge to the judge, not me). Certainly none of them were Islamic terrorists.

 

***reading comprehension note: "Certainly none of them were Islamic terrorists" written above does not mean "there are no Islamic terrorists". It does not mean "Islamic terrorism isn't a problem." It does not mean "we shouldn't be concerned about Islamic terror." It does not mean "we don't need to do anything about Islamic terrorism."

 

So why did I even bother posting this? Admittedly I now have cause to wonder. However it does concern me that there are people out there who actually honestly believe the only organised pre-meditated sectarian killing and terror-driven attacks are carried out by Muslims against Christians. The reality is somewhat different.

 

I doubt you are stupid enough to believe some of the nonsense you post.....

Had a good one line response to that but thought better of it.

 

However if you could just precisely specify the things I have written or posted above which are "nonsense" and explain why they are nonsense too, that could help me a lot.

 

 

[Marty_d]

(and all the rest...)

In the previous post you claimed people were not born with a religion then you list a bunch of criminals and claim they were all Christian just because they were white and living in the west. I doubt you are stupid enough to believe some of the nonsense you post, just driven by God-hatred. Romans 1v30

Woop woop woop....

 

For a moment there I thought this drivel was posted by Phil and I thought he'd gone off the deep end. To my relief it was you Gnu.

 

 

[Yenn]

Phil. How do we know who posted that photo, except you posted it here. It could have originated from an Islamic extremist, or equally it could have come from an anti Islamist. It could equally have been posted by a cranky old pom who just wats to stir up a few people.

 

It really does not say much for certain, it is too easy to draw the wrong conclusions.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The spreading of this crap, whether it's real or not, and the subsequent outpouring of outrage about it, really benefits no-one except for the extremists. If you want to stop yourself having an early death, give up smoking, excess drinking, eat healthy and exercise. The chances of having your throat slit by someone who's swallowed the IS kool-aid is way down the list.

 

 

[bull]

The spreading of this crap, whether it's real or not, and the subsequent outpouring of outrage about it, really benefits no-one except for the extremists. If you want to stop yourself having an early death, give up smoking, excess drinking, eat healthy and exercise. The chances of having your throat slit by someone who's swallowed the IS kool-aid is way down the list.

Tell that to the French/Belgium/US/etc people

 

 

[dutchroll]

You may not like what Marty said but it's quite true. You've got more chance of being hit by lightning........or being murdered by one of your family.......than being killed by an IS extremist in a western country (please don't misinterpret this as a "we shouldn't bother doing anything about Islamic extremism" statement)

 

However humans don't rationalise statistics or probabilities very well. In fact we're terrible at it. We are largely driven by fear, so even if something is extremely unlikely, we tend to be more concerned about it than other stuff which is far more likely (e.g. being killed in a car accident) if we're afraid of it.

 

This is where ISIS use excellent tactics because the way they commit atrocities is specifically designed to create fear among the general population. You can die an awful death in a car accident, but the concept of dying by having your throat deliberately cut is so many times more frightening, yet so many times less likely. They also regularly claim credit for "lone wolf" extremist attacks - as the majority of the attacks in western countries upon investigation have shown to be. Again this multiplies the fear factor as people think ISIS are much more highly organised in western countries than they actually are.

 

 

[Yenn]

I cnnot see what the greater risk of being hit by lightning or some similar event has to do with the risk of islamic terrorism. Those other events may or may not happen to you, plus the islamic attack. Why suggest it is so small that we need not worry? Ask that question of anyone who has experienced an islamic attack.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Why suggest it is so small that we need not worry?

I wrote this above:

 

...... (please don't misinterpret this as a "we shouldn't bother doing anything about Islamic extremism" statement)

So I'm not suggesting to "not worry at all". It is concerning enough to want the authorities to allocate significant resources to neutralising the threat. However I'm suggesting to temper your level of worrying appropriately. There are other bad things happening in our society in this country (e.g. a woman being murdered on average once a week by her domestic partner) which no-one seems to give a crap about because........Islamic terrorism.

 

I never cease to be amazed at how people compartmentalise certain serious societal problems in order to avoid dealing with them, while spending almost all of their time worrying about certain others.

 

 

[bull]

I wrote this above:

So I'm not suggesting to "not worry at all". It is concerning enough to want the authorities to allocate significant resources to neutralising the threat. However I'm suggesting to temper your level of worrying appropriately. There are other bad things happening in our society in this country (e.g. a woman being murdered on average once a week by her domestic partner) which no-one seems to give a crap about because........Islamic terrorism.

 

I never cease to be amazed at how people compartmentalise certain serious societal problems in order to avoid dealing with them, while spending almost all of their time worrying about certain others.

(e.g. a woman being murdered on average once a week by her domestic partner) which no-one seems to give a crap about because........Islamic terrorism.

Agree Dutchy but we cant take the weak left attitude of bringing up other issues that have been happening since federation to cover up or compare to a problem in Australia that is very recent and increasing at an expoentuly [sorry about the spelling i know its wrong but you know what I mean ] rate And is becoming a very real danger to society as a whole in our and other western countries and that's the point Dutchy, the DANGER to society as a whole ,not individual examples of domestic violence or other domestic crime , which has been happening since day dot ok.

[M61A1]

There are other bad things happening in our society in this country (e.g. a woman being murdered on average once a week by her domestic partner) which no-one seems to give a crap about because........Islamic terrorism.

Yes there are bad things happening in society, and the one you mentioned is rather close to me, blown hugely out of proportion by our foolish media and their favourite headlines.

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/domestic-violence-data-shows-women-are-not-the-only-victims/news-story/2749c4517a57c33aca8bc2da9a40e2f9

 

No denying that there are some violent men out there, but if you read what they define as DV, more than half it describes every woman I've ever met, but that's ok, they're a protected species.

 

There are two sides to this problem, it will not be cured by disregarding and demonising men who won't turn into women.

 

This is one problem in society that truly disgusts me. It's very close to me, and it's getting worse.

 

Copied from a Bettina Arndt article (the above link may not work)

 

Eva Solberg is a Swedish politician, a proud feminist who holds an important post as chairwoman of the party Moderate Women. Last year she was presented with her government’s latest strategy for combating domestic violence. Like similar reports across the world, this strategy assumes the only way to tackle domestic violence is through teaching misogynist men (and boys) to behave themselves.

 

The Swedish politician spat the dummy. Writing on the news site Nyheter24, Solberg took issue with her government’s “tired gendered analysis”, which argued that eradicating sexism was the solution to the problem of domestic violence. She explained her reasoning: “We know through extensive practice and experience that attempts to solve the issue through this kind of analysis have failed. And they failed precisely because violence is not and never has been a gender issue.”

 

Solberg challenged the government report’s assumption that there was a guilty sex and an innocent one. “Thanks to extensive research in the field, both at the national and international level, we now know with great certainty that this breakdown by sex is simply not true.”

 

She made reference to the world’s largest research database on intimate partner violence, the Partner Abuse State of Knowledge project, which summarises more than 1700 scientific papers on the topic.

 

She concluded that her government’s report was based on misinformation about family violence and that, contrary to the report’s one-sided view of men as the only perpetrators, many children were experiencing a very different reality: “We must recognise the fact that domestic violence, in at least half of its occurrence, is carried out by female perpetrators.”

 

One of the key patterns that emerged from PASK, Solberg said, was that violence in the family was an inherited problem and children learned from watching the violence of both their parents. “To know this and then continue to ignore the damage done to the children who are today subjected to violence is a huge social betrayal,” she concluded. “The road to a solution for this social problem is hardly to stubbornly continue to feed the patient with more of the same medicine that has already been tried for decades.”

 

There’s a certain irony that this happened in Sweden, the utopia for gender equality and the last place you would expect misogyny to be blamed for a major social evil. But despite Scandinavian countries being world leaders in gender equality (as shown by the 2014 World Economic Forum’s global gender gap index), Nordic women experience the worst physical or sexual violence in the EU. Given this inconvenient truth it seems extraordinary that for decades the gendered analysis of domestic violence has retained its grip on Sweden — as it has in other Western countries, including Australia.

 

 

Victims of domestic homicide.

 

No one would deny that it was a great achievement to have men’s violence against women fully acknowledged and to take critical steps to protect vulnerable women and ensure their safety.

 

But it has been shocking to watch this morph into a worldwide domestic violence industry determined to ignore evidence showing the complexities of violence in the home and avoid prevention strategies that would tackle the real risk factors underpinning this vital social issue.

 

Here, too, we are witnessing Solberg’s “huge social betrayal” by denying the reality of the violence being witnessed by many Australian children.

 

Just look at the bizarre $30 million television campaign the federal government ran a few months ago, which started with a little boy slamming a door in a little girl’s face. A series of vignettes followed, all about innocent females cowering from nasty males.

 

The whole thing is based on the erroneous notion that domestic violence is caused by disrespect for women, precisely the type of “tired gender analysis” that Solberg has so thoroughly discredited.

 

Yet our government spent at least $700,000 in funding for research and production of this campaign — just one example of the shocking misuse of the hundreds of millions of dollars that Malcolm Turnbull boasts our government is spending on domestic violence.

 

Our key organisations all sing from the same songbook, regularly distorting statistics to present only one part of this complex story.

 

There is a history of this in Australia. “Up to one quarter of young people in Australia have witnessed an incident of physical or domestic violence against their mother or stepmother,” Adam Graycar, a former director of the Australian Institute of Criminology, wrote in an introduction to a 2001 paper, Young Australians and Domestic Violence, a brief overview of the much larger Young People and Domestic Violence study.

 

Somehow Graycar failed to mention that while 23 per cent of young people were aware of domestic violence against their mothers or stepmothers, an almost identical proportion (22 per cent) of young people were aware of domestic violence against their fathers or stepfathers by their mothers or stepmothers — as shown in the same study.

 

This type of omission is everywhere today, with most of our bureaucracies downplaying statistics that demonstrate the role of women in family violence and beating up evidence of male aggression.

 

How often have we been told we face an epidemic of domestic violence? It’s simply not true. Most Australian women are lucky enough to live in a peaceful society where the men in their lives treat them well.

 

The official data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows violence against women has decreased across the 20-year period it has been studied, with the proportion of adult women experiencing physical violence from their male partner in the preceding year down from 2.6 per cent in 1996 to 0.8 per cent in 2012. (Violence from ex-partners dropped from 3.3 per cent to 0.7 per cent.)

 

“There’s no evidence that we’re in the middle of an epidemic of domestic violence,” says Don Weatherburn, the respected director of the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, confirming that these figures from national surveys carried out by the ABS provide the best data on domestic violence in the country.

 

He adds that in NSW “serious forms of domestic assault, such as assault inflicting grievous bodily harm, have actually come down by 11 per cent over the last 10 years”.

 

The most recent statistics from the ABS Personal Safety Survey show 1.06 per cent of women are physically assaulted by their partner or ex-partner each year in Australia. This figure is derived from the 2012 PSS and published in its Horizons report by Australia’s National Research Organisation for Women’s Safety, available at http://bit.ly/1ZYSyEj. The rate is obtained by dividing cell B9 in Table 19 (93,400) by the total female residential population aged 18 and older (8,735,400).

 

One in 100 women experiencing this physical violence from their partners is obviously a matter of great concern. But this percentage is very different from the usual figures being trotted out. You’ll never find the figure of 1.06 per cent mentioned by any of the domestic violence organisations in this country. Their goal is to fuel the flames, to promote an alarmist reaction with the hope of attracting ever greater funding for the cause.

 

What we hear from them is that one in three women are victims of violence. But that’s utterly misleading because it doesn’t just refer to domestic violence. These statistics are also taken from the Personal Safety Survey but refer to the proportion of adult women who have experienced any type of physical violence at all (or threat of violence.) So we’re not just talking about violence by a partner or violence in the home but any aggressive incident, even involving a perfect stranger — such as an altercation with an aggressive shopping trolley driver or an incident of road rage.

 

That’s partly how the figure inflates to one in three, but it also doesn’t even refer to what’s happening now because these figures include lifetime incidents for adult women — so with our 70-year-olds the violence could have taken place more than 50 years ago. And the equivalent figure for men is worse — one in two.

 

As for the most horrific crimes, where domestic violence ends in homicide, we are constantly told that domestic violence kills one woman every week. That’s roughly true.

 

According to AIC figures, one woman is killed by an intimate partner or ex-partner every nine days. One man is killed by his partner about every 30 days. So it is important to acknowledge that male violence is likelier to result in injury or death than female violence towards a partner.

 

The fact remains that almost a quarter (23.1 per cent) of victims of intimate partner homicide are male — and we hardly ever hear about these deaths.

 

It is not serving our society well to downplay the fact female violence can also be lethal, towards men and towards children: women account for more than half of all murders of children (52 per cent).

 

These are all still alarming statistics but here, too, there is good news. Domestic homicides are decreasing. The number of victims of intimate partner homicide dropped by almost a third (28 per cent) between 1989-90 and 2010-12, according to data supplied by the AIC (http://bit.ly/2bxn1GO).

 

Chris Lloyd is one of a growing number of Australian academics concerned at the misrepresentation of domestic violence statistics in this country. An expert in statistics and data management at the Melbourne Business School, Lloyd confirms our best source of data, the ABS’s Personal Safety Survey, clearly demonstrates domestic violence is decreasing.

 

He, too, says it’s wrong to suggest there’s an epidemic of domestic violence in this country. “Many of the quoted statistics around domestic violence are exaggerated or incorrect,” says Lloyd. “Contrary to popular belief and commentary, rates of intimate partner violence are not increasing.” He adds that while he understands the emotional reaction people have to this crime, “emotion is no basis for public policy”.

 

He’s concerned that Australian media so often publishes misinformation — such as a recent editorial in The Age that repeated the falsehood that domestic violence was the leading cause of death or illness for adult women in Victoria.

 

As I explained in my Inquirer article “Silent victims” last year (http://bit.ly/29CV5zD), it doesn’t even make the list of the top 10 such causes. The Age ignored Lloyd’s efforts to correct its mistake, ditto his concern about erroneous media reports that inflated domestic violence figures by using police crime statistics — a notoriously unreliable source.

 

As Weatherburn points out, it’s very difficult to determine whether swelling numbers of incidents reported to police reflects an increase in actual crime. “It may simply be a tribute to the excellent job that has been done to raise awareness of DV, encouraging women to report, and efforts to get the police to respond properly,” he points out.

 

Weatherburn believes that the slight (5.7 per cent) increase in reports of domestic assault in NSW during the past 10 years could be due to an increase in victims’ willingness to report domestic assault; he points to the 11 per cent drop across that time in serious forms of domestic assault, such as assault inflicting grievous bodily harm, as a more reliable picture of the trend in domestic violence.

 

Weatherburn adds that valid comparisons of state police figures on assault are impossible because each police force has a different approach to recording assault. But in many states the goalposts have also shifted.

 

The explosion in police records is due in part to recent expansions in the definition of family violence to include not just physical abuse but also threats of violence, psychological, emotional, economic and social abuse. Look at Western Australia, where this changed definition was introduced in 2004. That year West Australian police recorded 17,000 incidents of violence, but by 2012 this had almost tripled to 45,000.

 

Other states report similar trends because of these expanded definitions.

 

“If a woman turns up to a police station claiming her man has yelled at her, the chances are that she’ll end up with a police report and well on her way to obtaining an apprehended violence order, which puts her in a very powerful position,” says Augusto Zimmermann, a commissioner with the Law Reform Commission of Western Australia, who explains that AVOs can be used to force men to leave their homes and deny them contact with their children.

 

Often men are caught in police proceedings and evicted from their homes by orders that are issued without any evidence of legal wrongdoing. “It is a frightening reality that here in Australia a perfectly innocent citizen stands to lose his home, his family, his reputation, as a result of unfounded allegations. This is happening to men every day (as a consequence) of domestic violence laws which fail to require the normal standards of proof and presumptions of innocence,” Zimmermann says, adding that he’s not talking about genuine cases of violent men who seriously abuse their wives and children but “law-abiding people who have lost their parental and property rights without the most basic requirements of the rule of law”.

 

The growing trend for AVOs to be used for tactical purposes in family law disputes is also pushing up police records of domestic violence. “Rather than being motivated by legitimate concerns about feeling safe, a woman can make an application to AVO simply because she was advised by lawyers to look for any reason to apply for such an order when facing a family law dispute,” says Zimmermann, who served on a recent government inquiry into legal issues and domestic violence.

 

A survey of NSW magistrates found 90 per cent agreed that AVOs were being used as a divorce tactic. Research by family law professor Patrick Parkinson and colleagues from the University of Sydney revealed that lawyers were suggesting that clients obtain AVOs, explaining to them that verbal and emotional abuse were enough to do the trick

 

The bottom line is that police reports tell us little and the ABS Personal Safety Survey remains our best source of data, showing the true picture of domestic violence. But there’s one more vital fact revealed by that survey that rarely surfaces: men account for one in three victims of partner violence.

 

You’ll never find this figure mentioned on Our Watch, one of our leading domestic violence organisations, annually attracting government grants of up to $2 million. In May, when Lucy Turnbull became an ambassador for Our Watch, she was welcomed by its chief executive, Mary Barry, who thanked the ambassadors for “engaging Australians to call out disrespect and violence towards women and advocating for gender equality”, which was “exactly what the evidence says is needed to end the epidemic”.

 

Our Watch staff spend their time writing policy documents and running conferences all firmly locked into the gender equity framework. The site’s facts-and-figures pages include lists of cherry-picked statistics about violence against women but male victims are dismissed by simply stating that the “overwhelming majority of acts of domestic violence are perpetrated by men against women”.

 

There’s an interesting parallel here. As it happens, this one-in-three ratio is similar to the proportions of suicides among men and women. Among males, 2.8 per cent of all deaths in 2014 were attributed to suicide, while the rate for females was 0.9 per cent. Imagine the public outcry if the smaller number of female suicides were used to justify committing the entire suicide prevention budget to men. So why is it that all our government organisations are getting away with doing just that with the hundreds of millions being spent on domestic violence?

 

According to one of Australia’s leading experts on couple relationships, Kim Halford, a professor of clinical psychology at the University of Queensland, most family violence does not fit the picture most of us have when we imagine domestic violence — a violent man severely beating up his partner to control her. Such violence makes up less than 1 per cent of family violence.

 

Most family violence is two-way aggression, with international research showing about a third of couples have a go at each other — pushing, slapping, shoving or worse. Given the shame and stigma associated with being a male victim of family violence it is not surprising that men downplay these experiences in victim surveys such as Australia’s Personal Safety Survey. It’s only when men and women are asked about perpetrating violence that the two-way violence emerges, with women readily admitting to researchers that they are very actively involved and often instigate this type of “couple violence”.

 

“Thirty years of international research consistently shows that women and men are violent towards each other at about the same rate,” Halford tells Inquirer.

 

As one example, two major meta-analysis studies conducted by psychology professor John Archer from Britain’s University of Central Lancashire in 2000 and 2002 found that women were likelier than men to report acts such as pushing, slapping or throwing something at their partner. Archer pointed out that women were likelier to be injured as a result of the couple violence, although there was still a substantial minority of injured male victims.

 

This two-way violence wasn’t what most researchers expected to find, admits a leading researcher in this area, Terrie Moffitt from Duke University in the US. “We asked the girls questions like, ‘Have you hit your partner?’ ‘Have you thrown your partner across the room?’ ‘Have you used a knife on your partner?’ I thought we were wasting our time asking these questions but they said yes, and they said yes in just the same numbers as the boys did.” Moffitt’s work with young people was part of the world-renowned Dunedin longitudinal study back in the 1990s that recently featured on the SBS series Predict My Future (http://bit.ly/29NEDwQ).

 

It is telling that Australia has not conducted any of the large-scale surveys focusing on perpetrating violence likely to reveal the two-way pattern shown elsewhere. But gender symmetry did emerge in violence studies published in 2010-11 by Halford that focused on couples at the start of their relationships, newlywed couples and couples expecting a child together. Even with these early relationships, about a quarter of the women admit they have been violent towards their partners — just as many as the men.

 

Halford suggests that perhaps three-quarters of a million children every year in Australia are witnessing both parents engaged in domestic violence. Only small numbers see the severe violence we hear so much about, what the feminists call “intimate terrorism”, where a perpetrator uses violence in combination with a variety of other coercive tactics to take control over their partner, but as Halford points out, even less severe couple violence is not trivial.

 

“Children witnessing any form of family violence, including couple violence, suffer high rates of mental health problems and the children are more likely to be violent themselves. Couple violence is also a very strong predictor of relationship break-up, which has profound effects on adults and their children,” he says.

 

The 2001 Young People and Domestic Violence study mentioned earlier was based on national research involving 5000 young Australians aged 12 to 20. This found ample evidence that children were witnessing this two-way parental couple violence, with 14.4 per cent witnessing “couple violence”, 9 per cent witnessing male to female violence only and 7.8 per cent witnessing female to male violence only — which means about one in four young Australians have this detrimental start to their lives. The report found the most damage to children occurred when they witnessed both parents involved in violence.

 

It is often claimed that women hit only in self-defence, but Halford points out the evidence shows this is not true. “In fact, one of the strongest risk factors for a woman being hit by a male partner is her hitting that male partner. It’s absolutely critical that we tackle couple violence if we really want to stop this escalation into levels of violence which cause women serious injury,” he says. Of course, the impact on children is the other important reason to make couple violence a significant focus.

 

Naturally, none of this rates a mention in the section on “what drives violence against women” in the official government framework (http://bit.ly/2a3sVOQ) promoted by all our key domestic violence bodies. Nor is there any proper attention paid to other proven, evidence-based risk factors such as alcohol and drug abuse, poverty and mental illness.

 

The only officially sanctioned risk factor for domestic violence in this country is gender inequality. “Other factors interact with or reinforce gender inequality to contribute to increased frequency and severity of violence against women, but do not drive violence in and of themselves” is the only grudging acknowledgment in the framework that other factors may be at play.

 

At the recent hearings of Victoria’s Royal Commission into Family Violence, experts in alcohol abuse and mental illness spoke out about this blatant disregard of the 40 years of research that addresses these complexities. “It is simplistic and misleading to say that domestic violence is caused by patriarchal attitudes,” said James Ogloff, a world-renowned mental health expert.

 

“A sole focus on the gendered nature of family violence, which labels men as the perpetrators and women as the victims and which identifies gender inequity as the principal cause of family violence, is problematic on a number of levels,” said Peter Miller, principal research fellow and co-director of the violence prevention group at Deakin University.

 

Miller was involved in a comprehensive recent review of longitudinal studies involving predictors of family violence that identified childhood experiences with abuse and violence, particularly in families with problem alcohol use, as key predictors of adult involvement in domestic violence. He has encountered obstruction in conducting and publishing research into the role of drugs and alcohol in family violence.

 

The evidence is there about the complexities of domestic violence, but on an official level no one is listening. The reason is simple. The deliberate distortion of this important social issue is all about feminists refusing to give up hard-won turf. Ogloff spelled this out to the royal commission when he explained that the Victorian family violence sector feared that “recognising other potential causes of violence could cause a shift in funding away from programs directed at gender inequity”.

 

Forty years ago an important feminist figure was invited to Australia to visit our newly established women’s refuges. Erin Pizzey was the founder of Britain’s first refuge, a woman praised around the world for her pioneering work helping women escape from violence. On the way to Australia Pizzey travelled to New Zealand, where she spoke out about her changing views. She had learned through dealing with violent women in her refuge that violence was not a gender issue and that it was important to tackle the complexities of violence to properly address the issue.

 

Pizzey quickly attracted the wrath of the women’s movement in Britain, attracting death threats that forced her for a time to leave the country. She tells Inquirer from London: “The feminists seized upon domestic violence as the cause they needed to attract more money and supporters at a time when the first flush of enthusiasm for their movement was starting to wane. Domestic violence was perfect for them — the just cause that no one dared challenge. It led to a worldwide million-dollar industry, a huge cash cow supporting legions of bureaucrats and policymakers.”

 

In Pizzey’s New Zealand press interviews she challenged the gender inequality view of violence, suggesting tackling violence in the home required dealing with the real roots of violence, such as intergenerational exposure to male and female aggression.

 

News travelled fast. By the time Pizzey was set to leave for the Australian leg of the trip she was persona non grata with the feminists running our refuges. Her visit to this country was cancelled.

 

That was 1976. Since then the gendered view of domestic violence has held sway, dissenters are silenced and evidence about the true issues underlying this complex issue is ignored. And the huge cash cow supporting our blinkered domestic violence industry becomes ever more bloated.

 

Bettina Arndt is a Sydney-based social commentator.

 

bettinaarndt.com.au

 

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[dutchroll]

Yes there are bad things happening in society, and the one you mentioned is rather close to me, blown hugely out of proportion by our foolish media and their favourite headlines.

It's hard to blow a murder a week out of proportion. Yes abuse happens to men too (and is equally wrong), but the stats are pretty clear and unambiguous about which side cops it the most. I've known a number of guys who got into relationships with psycho hose-beasts, but they're far less likely to be murdered by them unless the violence is perpetrated the other way round.

 

... and that's the point Dutchy, the DANGER to society as a whole ,not individual examples of domestic violence or other domestic crime , which has been happening since day dot ok.

So domestic violence is not a danger to society as a whole? And if it's been happening since day dot, it's not so much of a problem to be concerned about?

 

Jesus.......

 

 

[bull]

It's hard to blow a murder a week out of proportion. Yes abuse happens to men too (and is equally wrong), but the stats are pretty clear and unambiguous about which side cops it the most. I've known a number of guys who got into relationships with psycho hose-beasts, but they're far less likely to be murdered by them unless the violence is perpetrated the other way round.

So domestic violence is not a danger to society as a whole? And if it's been happening since day dot, it's not so much of a problem to be concerned about?

 

Jesus.......

Still trying to cover up the ISLAMIC ISSUE that is a NEW PROBLEM IN Australia ,,your doing really well according to the left with your blanket coverage to try and make the Islamic problem in Australia as a small problem that can be fixed by doing nothing ,,,,as you say Jesus ,,,,,,[idiot]

 

 

[M61A1]

It's hard to blow a murder a week out of proportion. Yes abuse happens to men too (and is equally wrong), but the stats are pretty clear and unambiguous about which side cops it the most. I've known a number of guys who got into relationships with psycho hose-beasts, but they're far less likely to be murdered by them unless the violence is perpetrated the other way round.

 

..

Yes the stats are clear...1 every 9 days (one a week is out of proportion along with their completely inaccurate (one in three lie) versus 1 every 30 days, still not good odds. The point is that we are being led up the garden path, at great cost both monetarily and human.

 

All men in this country are being tarred with the same brush, while women are still being viewed as helpless innocent beings, which they clearly are not, and anyone who speaks out against it is howled down.