DISGUSTED WITH THIS. . . .

[Marty_d]

Pretty scary ah marty,,gunna go for a walk through melton tonight ?

I was being ironic Bull. What I actually meant was the complete opposite.

 

 

[octave]

Australia: Hundreds of African Muslims riot through Melbourne with baseball bats and machetes over Christmas

How often does this happen Bull? Of course in a city of 4 million people there are crimes committed by all sorts of people. I notice you haven't mentioned Australian bikies shooting in public, but I guess they are not the wrong the right colour. You are relying on the media, I live here. Can I ask you how well you think the media covers plane crashes, do they ever exaggerate or sensationalize? I understand that these things make you feel anxious but like flying in an airliner the odds of coming to grief are very small and when rationally put in context are not worth being nervous about. Your assertion that Melbourne is under siege is clearly nonsense . But happy to consider crime statistics but not an online news site called the Muslim Issue (the title makes no pretense at balance)

 

 

[bull]

I was being ironic Bull. What I actually meant was the complete opposite.

I know Marty,so was I lol

 

 

[bull]

How often does this happen Bull? Of course in a city of 4 million people there are crimes committed by all sorts of people. I notice you haven't mentioned Australian bikies shooting in public, but I guess they are not the wrong the right colour. You are relying on the media, I live here. Can I ask you how well you think the media covers plane crashes, do they ever exaggerate or sensationalize? I understand that these things make you feel anxious but like flying in an airliner the odds of coming to grief are very small and when rationally put in context are not worth being nervous about. Your assertion that Melbourne is under siege is clearly nonsense . But happy to consider crime statistics but not an online news site called the Muslim Issue (the title makes no pretense at balance)

OH Octave you poor left leaning sole,your reply using the bikie fear .scary attacks at every corner shootings says it all, FACT when ''bikies ''as you call them fight it is usually between two opposing gangs and they only want to really shoot each other.ok...yes sometimes some innocents get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time...THE difference between the big scary ""bikie ''attacks and the muslim /afrikan immigrant issue is muslims want to kill /harm slay the infidel and anyone else who does,nt believe in the pedophile mahamed,and we have over 800000 of them in Australia,and a total of no more then 35000 ""bikie'' members in Australia,,,NOW as you know I,m not the smartest piece of cheese on the cutting board, but I seem to see a problem with you using the big scary bikie thing to cover up immigration/muslim crime in Australia......can anyone else????Also do you realise that a large proportion of patched gangs in Australia now are primarily muslim members HMMMM

 

 

[octave]

OH Octave you poor left leaning sole,your reply using the bikie fear .scary attacks at every corner shootings says it all, FACT when ''bikies ''as you call them fight it is usually between two opposing gangs and they only want to really shoot each other.ok...yes sometimes some innocents get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time...THE difference between the big scary ""bikie ''attacks and the muslim /afrikan immigrant issue is muslims want to kill /harm slay the infidel and anyone else who does,nt believe in the pedophile mahamed,and we have over 800000 of them in Australia,and a total of no more then 35000 ""bikie'' members in Australia,,,NOW as you know I,m not the smartest piece of cheese on the cutting board, but I seem to see a problem with you using the big scary bikie thing to cover up immigration/muslim crime in Australia......can anyone else????Also do you realise that a large proportion of patched gangs in Australia now are primarily muslim members HMMMM

 

I know you prefer emotion to facts and rational thinking but can you tell me how many murders and assaults have been committed by these people that you think have Melbourne under siege? The Apex gang are a group of thugs and petty criminals, there is no doubt about that but to claim that we Melbournites are under siege or our crime rate is out of control or higher than anywhere where else in Aus is nonsense. If you really want to put me in my place, it is easy just quote the relevant statistics from a reliable verifiable source - easy. Sorry but I cannot be convinced by emotion only cold hard facts. I went for my evening walk tonight and I will go for my evening walk tomorrow night., I don't expect to be attacked by the marauding masses.

 

By the way I think you totally missed my point about bikies. Let me put it another way. Being a rational guy my concern about violent crime is related to the likelihood of that crime being committed, it makes sense to be concerned about the crimes that more commonly occur rather than rarer crimes. Again statistics.

 

I seem to see a problem with you using the big scary bikie thing to cover up immigration/muslim crime in Australia......can anyone else????

Yes good question can anyone? Again you miss my point so let me reduce it down to one point. You claim that Melbourne is under siege from violent gangs, it is not and if it were it would be very easy for you to put me in my place wirth FACTS.

 

Anyway I guess we just have different thresholds when it comes to fear and I guess that is unlikely to change.

 

 

[Bikky]

Interesting reading;

 

4510.0 - Recorded Crime - Victims, Australia, 2014

 

It appears to indicate, that despite the popularly perceived notion that the influx of thousands of muslim immigrants is putting lives in danger, Australia has become a safer place to live!

 

African armed gangs fighting each other is wrong but who got hurt?

 

 

[bull]

I know you prefer emotion to facts and rational thinking but can you tell me how many murders and assaults have been committed by these people that you think have Melbourne under siege? The Apex gang are a group of thugs and petty criminals, there is no doubt about that but to claim that we Melbournites are under siege or our crime rate is out of control or higher than anywhere where else in Aus is nonsense. If you really want to put me in my place, it is easy just quote the relevant statistics from a reliable verifiable source - easy. Sorry but I cannot be convinced by emotion only cold hard facts. I went for my evening walk tonight and I will go for my evening walk tomorrow night., I don't expect to be attacked by the marauding masses.

By the way I think you totally missed my point about bikies. Let me put it another way. Being a rational guy my concern about violent crime is related to the likelihood of that crime being committed, it makes sense to be concerned about the crimes that more commonly occur rather than rarer crimes. Again statistics.

 

Yes good question can anyone? Again you miss my point so let me reduce it down to one point. You claim that Melbourne is under siege from violent gangs, it is not and if it were it would be very easy for you to put me in my place wirth FACTS.

 

Anyway I guess we just have different thresholds when it comes to fear and I guess that is unlikely to change.

Not once have I claimed that Melbourne was under SIEGE OR that the crime rate was out of CONTROL or higher than anywhere else,,,these are your words put in by you too substanciate your lefty argument If you will scroll back through my posts on this thread and find where I had used any of these words in my postings I,ll apologise ,,,BUT as that is not the case you once again have proven that as do the left media and you,,, that you will use your own words and blatently state that someone who isn't agreeing with you SAID..those words as you just did......................................THESE ARE FACTS about what you just wrote.............And to say untrue Quotes to justify your argument is lying and precursor to libel and I await your apology Octave,,,,,,

 

 

[Bikky]

THE difference between the big scary ""bikie ''attacks and the muslim /afrikan immigrant issue is muslims want to kill /harm slay the infidel and anyone else who does,nt believe in the pedophile mahamed,and we have over 800000 of them in Australia,

Those 800,000 muslims are doing a pretty weak job of it then aren't they? If every muslim decided to do as you believe and take out at least 3 infidels, this would reduce the infidel population by 2,400,000. Have they had time to do this? Yes. Has this happened? No. Do they really want to do this? Evidence (facts, not opinion) suggests not.

 

As for lefty media - I had no idea that Rupert Murdoch was a socialist! Learn a new thing every day ....

 

 

[octave]

but I seem to see a problem with you using the big scary bikie thing to cover up immigration/muslim crime in Australia

Although you suggest this quote is what I am saying you are really paraphrasing what you think I am saying. I have never mentioned immigration or covering up "immigration/muslim" crime. That is fine, I can't control how you interpret my words Likewise I interpret you saying things like "Tell that to the poor Melbourne residents having to live with the apex gang" to mean that you are saying that Melbourne residents are living with a level of gang violence beyond that of any other comparable city. Granted you may not have used the word siege and you can suggest that I have misinterpreted you just as I have not mentioned immigration or Muslim crime. Yes there is a crime gang called Apex, they appear to mainly African (but not entirely African) Yes they have committed some violent robberies. But to suggest that this is anything greater than the usual run of crime that happens in any large city is not correct. I sincerely hope that I am not misinterpreting you again, just to be on the safe side I should stick to direct quotes.

 

.THE difference between the big scary ""bikie ''attacks and the muslim /afrikan immigrant issue is muslims want to kill /harm slay the infidel and anyone else who does,nt believe in the pedophile mahamed,and we have over 800000 of them in Australia

Are you saying that these gangs are motivated by radical islamism and that they want to. to "kill /harm slay the infidel" ? if not then we are not talking about the same thing. I was comparing bikie gangs to Apex.. whether or not this is what you are suggesting (so th be clear I accept that you may not be saying they are motivated by islamism) I don't think anyone believes (including the Police) that this gang is anything but a group of petty, malicious and violent criminals.

 

Apex Gang’s crime matriarch Sue Merrall who stored stolen goods … – Daily Mail – Hard News

 

Certainly doesn't look like a terrorist group.

 

precursor to libel and I await your apology Octave,

no apology forthcoming, i will await the summons

Anyway I can see this topic gets you very angry so I have no wish to contribute to your anger and negativity, not much point in flogging a dead horse (lol just re read that and thought I better clarify that the dead horse refers to the subject not your good self), you have your view of the world and i have mine, but so what.

 

Hey is that your plane in you profile pic? Looks very cool

 

Cheers

 

 

[dutchroll]

And to say untrue Quotes to justify your argument is lying and precursor to libel and I await your apology Octave,,,,,,

To successfully sue for libel ("defamation" is the legal term these days) you have to prove damage to your reputation, Bull.

 

I suspect that will be very difficult.

 

It's also really, really expensive ($100k or more in legal fees before a judgement in made). If you lose, you pay Octave's costs as well as your own. Good luck.

 

 

[bull]

Although you suggest this quote is what I am saying you are really paraphrasing what you think I am saying. I have never mentioned immigration or covering up "immigration/muslim" crime. That is fine, I can't control how you interpret my words Likewise I interpret you saying things like "Tell that to the poor Melbourne residents having to live with the apex gang" to mean that you are saying that Melbourne residents are living with a level of gang violence beyond that of any other comparable city. Granted you may not have used the word siege and you can suggest that I have misinterpreted you just as I have not mentioned immigration or Muslim crime. Yes there is a crime gang called Apex, they appear to mainly African (but not entirely African) Yes they have committed some violent robberies. But to suggest that this is anything greater than the usual run of crime that happens in any large city is not correct. I sincerely hope that I am not misinterpreting you again, just to be on the safe side I should stick to direct quotes.

 

Are you saying that these gangs are motivated by radical islamism and that they want to. to "kill /harm slay the infidel" ? if not then we are not talking about the same thing. I was comparing bikie gangs to Apex.. whether or not this is what you are suggesting (so th be clear I accept that you may not be saying they are motivated by islamism) I don't think anyone believes (including the Police) that this gang is anything but a group of petty, malicious and violent criminals.

 

Apex Gang’s crime matriarch Sue Merrall who stored stolen goods … – Daily Mail – Hard News

 

Certainly doesn't look like a terrorist group.

 

no apology forthcoming, i will await the summons

 

Anyway I can see this topic gets you very angry so I have no wish to contribute to your anger and negativity, not much point in flogging a dead horse (lol just re read that and thought I better clarify that the dead horse refers to the subject not your good self), you have your view of the world and i have mine, but so what.

 

Hey is that your plane in you profile pic? Looks very cool

 

Cheers

fair enough ,and yes is the mighty quicksilver,, what do you fly for fun Octave,by your profile you look like you might have some nice toys?

 

 

[bull]

To successfully sue for libel ("defamation" is the legal term these days) you have to prove damage to your reputation, Bull.

I suspect that will be very difficult.

 

It's also really, really expensive ($100k or more in legal fees before a judgement in made). If you lose, you pay Octave's costs as well as your own. Good luck.

What reputation is that Dutchy,,lol the mad right wing raa hating quicksilver {re rag and tube ]driver one or the angry peasant one lol

 

 

[Bruce]

In what way is Australia better off for taking in all these refugees/immigrants?

 

After living in Alice Springs, I know first-hand that indigenous crime is grossly under-reported. The first question you get asked on phoning the police is whether indigenous people are involved. If the answer to this is a "yes" then a whole different approach takes place, generally involving no action.

 

And Moslem attacks on women in the EU are under-reported according to media and internet reports. That major event at Cologne was being officially ignored yet over a hundred women were attacked.

 

But most moslems and most indigenous are ok, it is a statistical thing. I too know some lovely moslems. But if you teach from the Koran, 1% of the students will take it seriously. If you have imported 800,000 that means you have 8,000 hard-core and I can't begin to see why it is was good idea to import these.

 

Maybe we should have looked after our indigenous people first.

 

 

[Marty_d]

But if you teach from the Koran, 1% of the students will take it seriously. If you have imported 800,000 that means you have 8,000 hard-core and I can't begin to see why it is was good idea to import these.Maybe we should have looked after our indigenous people first.

42% of Americans think the Earth was created less than 10,000 years ago. This must make them "hard-core" christians. Are you saying that 42% pose a clear and immediate danger to the remaining 58%? If not, what proportion do? And to bring back that statistic to your 1% hard-core muslims, what proportion of that 1% poses a danger?

 

We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Our government, instead of having the present prime minister spend his efforts preventing the zombie-like resurrection of the previous one and his conservative minions, should be able to produce policies to address the important issues of our time - climate change, health, education, social welfare, closing the gap, economy, agriculture, science... and being a reasonable world citizen, which means helping a number of displaced people commensurate with our wealth and population.

 

 

[M61A1]

The biggest difference there is that a "hard core" Christian (while not to my liking either), are trying to emulate a prophet that told them to turn the other cheek and die if necessary for their god, while the Islamic extremists (and some not so extreme) are trying to emulate a prophet that used violence in the extreme to get what he wanted.

 

I don't like either of those ideas, and when you put them together it won't end well.

 

 

[Bikky]

Bruce, Marty and M61A1. In my opinion you're all correct. The common thread linking all your comments is religion, and I think it's high time we got rid of it and started thinking for ourselves.

 

I live in hope!

 

 

[Bruce]

Religion is like a computer virus, the computer being inside a persons head. Some viruses are more virulent than others, and the Moslem one is about as bad as you can imagine.

 

The Japanese exclude Moslems from coming there even on a work visa. They, correctly in my view, regard Islam as a much worse disease than Christianity.

 

Of course, the main sufferers are the Moslems themselves and I agree with helping them in every way except by allowing them to emigrate here.

 

 

[dutchroll]

The Japanese exclude Moslems from coming there even on a work visa.

That's false. However being able to speak, read and write Japanese is normally a condition of getting a working visa there. I don't know how many Syrians speak, read and write Japanese but I bet it's not many.

 

 

[Bruce]

Thanks Dutch, I was influenced by reports which did not stand up to a google look. But the Japanese sure don't use taxpayer money to fund Moslem ( and other ) religious schools like we do here.

 

Here's another thing I thought was true about Japan... I thought they didn't use taxpayer money to subsidize the medical bills of over 70's. Well this would explain their low tax rates, thought I.

 

lt turned out to not be true. So I guess that just like Australia, most medical money goes from the taxpayer through the geriatric to the medical profession.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Surely this isn't possible. These guys are just patriots trying to do the right thing by their country! I mean, they were only planning to blow up 120 Somali refugees in an apartment complex......

 

Militia members arrested in alleged plot targeting Muslims

 

 

[Bruce]

Yep that's awful Dutch, but I have to point out it was not in Japan.

 

I wish there were a respectable party that was against immigration of any sort into Australia.

 

 

[M61A1]

Surely this isn't possible. These guys are just patriots trying to do the right thing by their country! I mean, they were only planning to blow up 120 Somali refugees in an apartment complex......

Militia members arrested in alleged plot targeting Muslims

While I do not support their actions, it's hardly surprising.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Surely this isn't possible. These guys are just patriots trying to do the right thing by their country! I mean, they were only planning to blow up 120 Somali refugees in an apartment complex......

Militia members arrested in alleged plot targeting Muslims

Look, they may be murderous, bigoted, racist, dangerous and possibly inbred imbeciles, but at least they're Americans, they ain't goddam muslims!

 

 

 

Note to Bull and others who have difficulty with irony: I am being ironic. I'm attempting to show the absolute stupidity of painting all of a culture/country/race with the actions of their nut cases.

 

 

[dutchroll]

While I do not support their actions, it's hardly surprising.

I tend to agree, in the sense that there is a subset of the population in the US (and elsewhere) who believe that blowing people up or shooting a group of people dead is the best way of expressing your frustration or anger with a situation and a good first step towards fixing the problem.

 

Of course this is completely irrational thinking and behaviour. It causes enough trouble having Islamic extremists think this way, let alone anyone else.

 

I do often wonder what goes on inside people's heads. It's more than simple "anger", which is generally the excuse put up by sympathisers. We all get angry about stuff sometimes, but we don't go out and plan to execute a bunch of people. There's something quite disturbing going on in the minds of some people who appear outwardly friendly, but harbour a deep degree of callous - virtually psychopathic - viciousness within themselves.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I wish there were a respectable party that was against immigration of any sort into Australia.

There was, they were called the Aboriginals.

 

Like it or not Australia is a land of immigrants, and has been for the last 230 years. Every wave of immigration - English, Chinese, Greek, Italian, Vietnamese - brings a whole bunch of changes to the overall culture. Most of these are positive, some are negative.

 

If you're going to argue which one caused the most harm to the incumbents then I'd suggest you go back to 1788.