Wot's happened in Bourke Street ?

[Phil Perry]

Reports yesterday of a traffic incident in Melbourne centre, with some fatalities and gunfire. The Media here reports local police saying it's nothing to do with terrorism.

 

Any updates ?

 

 

[dutchroll]

One Nation leader Pauline Hanson said it was a terror attack then sprouted off about keeping Muslims out, but as Pauline regrettably often does, she opened her mouth before she had any facts. It was not a terror attack.

 

An Australian man, Dimitrious "Jimmy" Gargasoulas with a long history of drug offences, domestic violence, and mental health problems was being chased by police after a series of assaults were reported in recent days. He drove into the city where police called off the pursuit because it was getting dangerous (tough call which they might regret, but they couldn't have foreseen what he was about to do). He then started doing burnouts at a major intersection near the main railway station before heading into the city centre and mounting a kerb and driving down the Bourke Street Mall, the major city pedestrian and shopping mall in Melbourne, running over people.

 

Tragically 4 people have been killed with 31 injured including a 3 month old baby girl in a critical condition. The driver was shot in the arm by police and apprehended.

 

He is the subject of multiple bail orders. Last weekend he was arrested over a number of offences and then granted bail by a bail justice.

 

Basically, a psychopathic b**tard cut loose and created mayhem.

 

A more comprehensive story of how it unfolded here:

 

Four dead, 31 injured, suspect in custody after CBD car chase

 

 

[Phil Perry]

One Nation leader Pauline Hanson said it was a terror attack then sprouted off about keeping Muslims out, but as Pauline regrettably often does, she opened her mouth before she had any facts. It was not a terror attack.

An Australian man, Dimitrious "Jimmy" Gargasoulas with a long history of drug offences, domestic violence, and mental health problems was being chased by police after a series of assaults were reported in recent days. He drove into the city where police called off the pursuit because it was getting dangerous (tough call which they might regret, but they couldn't have foreseen what he was about to do). He then started doing burnouts at a major intersection near the main railway station before heading into the city centre and mounting a kerb and driving down the Bourke Street Mall, the major city pedestrian and shopping mall in Melbourne, running over people.

 

Tragically 4 people have been killed with 31 injured including a 3 month old baby girl in a critical condition. The driver was shot in the arm by police and apprehended.

 

He is the subject of multiple bail orders. Last weekend he was arrested over a number of offences and then granted bail by a bail justice.

 

Basically, a psychopathic b**tard cut loose and created mayhem.

 

A more comprehensive story of how it unfolded here:

 

Four dead, 31 injured, suspect in custody after CBD car chase

 

Thanks Dutch. . . the only thing I got was this stuff. . which was postee on 'Twattter'. . .a social media site to which I have no access and no account. . . .this was posted b some bloke who has, and IS, subject to alternative vew, since it appears to filled with unsubstantisted information . . . .

 

All I found was this ( From a twitter post – I don’t have a twitter account )

 

私は小さなクルド人です @JPY_Kurdish

 

BREAKING: one dead & at least 20 injured in Melbourne, after shots were fired & pedestrians were run down. CCTV: innocents ran for lives. pic.twitter.com/tqr1rd8pM0

 

私は小さなクルド人です @JPY_Kurdish

 

2) update: 3+ dead & 20+ injured, this witness, Stefano, describes the driver screaming "Allahu Akbar" at people

 

#BourkeStreet #Melbourne pic.twitter.com/yPvSA5LCmR

 

That's all I've found at the moment mate. . .we are a long way away, and the MSM don't report this stuff . . .

 

Phil.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Yeah not Islamic inspired. Just a plain, garden-variety violent psycho well known to the police, who should not have been released on bail.

 

 

[Yenn]

It was reported here in Qld as being the worst tragedy in Melbournes history. 3 dead at that time. How many died in the Hoddle Street disaster?

 

A bit sad for the countrys most liveable city. It must have improved a lot since 1966 when I lived there.

 

I have just looked up hoddle St.

 

7 dead, 19 injured.

 

I hope the original report does not turn out to be true. What really upsets me is the people injured who are the real losers, some could have their lives completely wrecked and then be quickly forgotten.

 

 

[dutchroll]

It was reported here in Qld as being the worst tragedy in Melbournes history. 3 dead at that time.

Queen St massacre 1987 - 9 killed 5 injured.

 

 

[Bruce]

I told them so!

 

The government keeps on spending huge amounts of money on policing the aviation activities of silly but very safe old guys like me while they don't have the funds to supervise the violently insane who are out on bail.

 

I sent an email about this to the treasurer a year ago and got no answer.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Even worse now. Death toll has hit 5 with the 3-month-old dying. 4 people on critical list and hospitals treated 37 for injuries.

 

Three-month-old baby dies after Bourke Street attack

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I'm firmly in Dutchroll's camp on this one.

 

We are reguarly being told that some bloke or other was in some way dangerous and / or 'Known to the Police' but was not incarcerated, nor restrained in any way, or out on bail, and when they commit these 'Monkey sees Monkey does' atrocities, the handwringers huddle and start making bloody excuses.

 

In my view, this was effall to do with Islamic terrorism, as the UK social media is trying to paint it. . . other than the distinct possibility that seeing this stuff on TV gave the looney some ideas.

 

I don't hate Islam. What I DO DETEST is innocent people being maimed and killed by lunatics of whatever political colour, when the respective authorities had most of those who carry out these attacks already on the 'radar' A typical example being the twat who drove the truck in Paris. . . 'Known to the police and on a 'Watch List' . . .lot of bloody good that did. What part of LOCK THE BUGGERS UP or DEPORT do these 'Responsible Authorities' not understand ? ?

 

When I'm flying in primary airspace, ( analogy - a City Centre ) I am 'On the radar' and am watched like a bloody hawk until I am no longer a hazard to anyone else, which is exactly how it should be.

 

We really need to kick some ass and get 'The Authorities' . . .whosoever they may be. . . to modify their procedures, just a little, as this lot is getting beyond a bloody joke.

 

E.O.R.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

In my view, this was effall to do with Islamic terrorism

Yeah you have a rather long distance view from pommyland; I'd take more notice of people that were right there at the time. And the words of the perpetrator who described himself as Kurdish Islamic.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8JTFxc2Xg

 

VICPOL and the justice system are a pathetic joke. It's everyone looking out for themselves now because the government sure aren't. We saw the exact same thing happen in Sydney at Lindt Cafe also.

 

 

[Marty_d]

And the words of the perpetrator who described himself as Kurdish Islamic.

Dimitrious "Jimmy" Gargasoulas is a Kurdish name?

 

It's all Greek to me...

 

 

[Bruce]

There was a poster which exhorted islamists to use vehicles to do terrorist stuff, and this guy may have been influenced by it. But I blame the politically correct lot for the fact that he was free to do this when he had a history of violence.

 

The fact that he was part-aboriginal may have been the reason why he was out on bail.

 

 

[octave]

Yeah you have a rather long distance view from pommyland; I'd take more notice of people that were right there at the time. And the words of the perpetrator who described himself as Kurdish Islamic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8JTFxc2Xg

 

VICPOL and the justice system are a pathetic joke. It's everyone looking out for themselves now because the government sure aren't. We saw the exact same thing happen in Sydney at Lindt Cafe also.

Why is it that you believe this one (tightly edited clip when thousands of other witnesses did not hear this? If it turned out to really be an Islamist attack then I would accept that but this is not what the evidence suggests. This man was known to police.

 

There are certainly huge questions to be asked about the police forces ability to stop this guy after pursing him from the outer suburbs.

 

This awful tragedy in my city was witnessed by thousands of people and also filmed on phones. Is it not at all suspicious that there are not numerous eye witnesses reporting this?

 

Now in some ways it does not matter, this was an obscene attack on human life but this is my concern.

 

It is awful for anyone to use this tragedy to push their particular philosophy or political beliefs. But more importantly we need to realise that (for a want of a better phrase) the business model of isis works .Their main aim is is not just to kill people but to insight fear and insecurity into our society. They benefit by making people fear for their safety, this can be an actual threat or a perceived threat. Calling any act of mass violence an "Islamist terror attack" if it is not, is to act as a PR agent for isis, all the glory with none of the effort. If you think pinning this on Islamism is hurting them, then I fear you are mistaken in fact you are aiding them.

 

Gnu if you think the thousands of witness reports have been manipulated by some kind of conspiracy then no level of evidence will convince you otherwise.

 

As I said there are many questions to be asked about this tragedy with regard to bail and policing procedures and I would think that the terrorism theory would make their inability to stop this more understandable.

 

To be clear, I fully expect that there will be some kind of terrorist attack in my city at some time but as far as I can see this is not it.

 

Gnu if you come up with multiple sources of evidence (ie not the delusional imaginings of a paranoid conspiracist) I will happily donate $50 to your favourite charity.

 

Note I am not someone who denies religious terrorism, I think it is an awful threat to us, and will most likely occur but lets not nervously jump at shadows!

 

 

[Teckair]

Pretty sure I heard someone on the spot say this tool was shouting "god is great".

 

 

[octave]

Pretty sure I heard someone on the spot say this tool was shouting "god is great".

teck I watched this unfold as it is on my doorstep. None of the many statements I heard said that. Do you not accept the domestic violence angle. the long chase through the suburbs? The fact he had been bailed recently, the fact he (allegedly) stabbed his brother and took a woman hostage? As I said this was filmed by many people, there were many many witnesses, including someone I know. Why is it that there is only one clip of this (as far as I know) I have no reason the favour either scenario but it is crucial to get the truth and not a version that suits our political beliefs in either direction. If this guy was shouting out support for Islamism would you not expect many of the thousands of people present would have heard it?

 

Let me be clear the fact that the evidence does not support the terrorism does not in any way suggest that a terrorist attack is not on the cards, I am just suggesting that this was not it. Not every act of violence is terrorism. If it was not a terrorist attack then would you not agree giving them credit is giving them a free kick.

 

I am open minded but again, I say, this event was witnessed by thousands of people, surely there would have to be many more reports such as the one in Gnus video. I feel this is the rational approach to take.

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

So sad to see innocent adults and children killed.

 

Tell me how do we as parents and Grandparents explain this behavior to four year olds.

 

I struggled with..." he was a bad man who was upset and a little silly"

 

Mmmm I need a child phycologist step in here. No doubt there will be a lot of young children who knew these children whom have died and will need support and counseling.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Yeah you have a rather long distance view from pommyland; I'd take more notice of people that were right there at the time. And the words of the perpetrator who described himself as Kurdish Islamic.

So the perpetrator, the son of Emily and Chris Gargasoulas, born in Australia, has a long history of serious violence and psychiatric problems and is an ice addict. He claims to be a Kurdish Muslim.

 

When opining here, do you always prefer to believe the claims of mentally deranged ice addicted murderers over and above any other facts, Gnu?

 

Actually disregard that. I think I already know the answer......

 

 

[Bernie Knight]

Yes I think the State and Federal Police would have him on the terrorist watch list if he was one

 

I guess his claims and rants were ignored.

 

Somehow, I think this idiot would not escape that Terrorist watch list if appropriate.

 

Today State Police and Politicians have clearly stated he was well known to Police for numerous criminal offences and was at the time on bail.

 

The fact that he was bailed by a Bail

 

Justice is now been questioned.

 

In defence I would say the Bail Justice would have been told one of those sad stories of; violent childhood, abuse, abandonment, dependance, no one loves him etc.

 

In my former role as a Prosecutor I heard thousands of these pleas for leniency and Bail.

 

Sadly no one predicted what he was going to do.

 

Our thoughts with those still fighting for their lives

 

 

[SDQDI]

Whether he was or was not a terrorist doesn't really matter now.

 

If he did deliberately run people over in the manner that has been reported then he needs to be treated the same same as if he was a confirmed terrorist who did similar acts.

 

Reasoning with ice addicts is impossible, I don't know that there is a perfect solution to that problem.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Whether he was or was not a terrorist doesn't really matter now.

If he did deliberately run people over in the manner that has been reported then he needs to be treated the same same as if he was a confirmed terrorist who did similar acts.

 

Reasoning with ice addicts is impossible, I don't know that there is a perfect solution to that problem.

 

 

I believe that certain solutions have been suggested; but I personally don't EVER want to see the Ultimate sanction reintroduced in Western societies which have rejected it.

 

I am amazed that it still exists in the US. ( in some states ) It has long been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the statutory threat of this NEVER appeared to act as a deterrent nor reduce capital crime statistics anywhere.

 

'Terrorists' or any perpetrator of acts such as the one under discussion, for whatever quoted 'Reason' ( If there be such ) can only be locked up in a place where they cannot continue with their abberation of a pastime. The State can only be held to account for these acts up to a point,. . Premature judicial handwashing perhaps ?

 

Slavish devotion to cries of 'Yuman Rites' perhaps ?

 

Application of the 'Am I my Brother's Keeper' philosophy can then evolve to become a quasi - Orwellian nightmare where Everyone is under surveillance All of the time, cradle to grave and everyone shuffles about furtively looking over their collective shoulders. ( See Soviet Russia in the Stalin era )

 

I agree with you, there's no perfect answer, at the moment we don't even seem to have an imperfect one.

 

 

[Bruce]

We don't use our jails properly. The only reason for incarcerating anybody is when you are afraid of what they will do if on the loose.

 

All others ( eg people who don't pay enough tax) can be punished adequately, or more than adequately, by other means. Like sending them broke.

 

This guy was a perfect example of somebody who should have been locked up. "Criminally insane " is what he is.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Very sad and heartfelt sympathies to families and friends of those killed and injured.. even though from pommy land, Mr. Gnu (although Melb born and bred)..

 

In Victoria, out of session bail cases are heard by Justices of the Peace and they are unpaid pillars of society that have minimal training. As I understand, the law on bail had already tightened in Vic in that it moved from presuming the accused had a right to their liberty until trial, to where they had to prove they were not a danger to be bailed. The reports that I have read suggested that the JP granted bail despite police objections - so either the accused's lawyer painted a very good case or the JP was not well versed in the new laws (not sure if a clerk of courts would have been present to advise).

 

Too little info to form an opinion either way, but my guess is the JP is not feeling the best at the moment, either...

 

 

[dutchroll]

I found this part of an article published just a few minutes ago interesting:

 

Some bail justices, who did not want to be named, said there was pressure to bail suspects because prisons were full. But there was also scepticism about the release of Gargasoulas, considering the charges he faced and the police opposition to his release.

 

It is understood there has been a growing frustration among some bail justices over a "softly, softly'' stance. Bail justice Gary Poole said there were signs that since the Bourke St rampage "nervous" colleagues were taking themselves off rosters. He said the bail justice who had granted bail to Gargasoulas was being supported.

 

He said he had previously written to Attorney-General Martin Pakula and his shadow, John Pesutto, about reforming the "antiquated" system. One suggestion was to remunerate bail justices. Neither replied.

 

[fly_tornado]

How to get on TV in the 21st century:

 

Whilst the cops are talking to genuine witnesses, walk up to the media scrum and declare that the crim was shouting allah akbar

 

 

[Teckair]

Even if this person was not a Muslim it as been reported lack of tolerance for homosexuals was a factor in the event. To me this is still a terror event when innocent people are treated like this. I do not live in a capitol city but I do sometimes wonder how safe it is in places where there are a lot of people I do not know.