GRIPES

[spacesailor]

My mother always  said , no religious burial. 

Maybe changed her mind ( just in case ) .

If you state, No religious burial  . Can it be changed .

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Now that I have a keyboard, I will respond more fully..

 

Everyone is entitiled to a belief strcuture - I don't deny that.. And If i caused offience, I apologise... However I was not justifying my beleif system.. nor was I imposing it on anyone else. Statements were made that of beliefs that were stated as absolute fact  - which is that contex in which I quoted the snippets of the post.. For example the scientist (I still guess Darwin) was an amateur and devised evolution; They clearly are not true.. maybe the selection of "devised" was an accident, but in the context of "because it is total fallacy. , which is a statement of fact, makes me think it wasn't necessarily a mistake.

 

I merely pointed out mistakes of fact guiding a beleif.. I may have overdone it, but thats fine. The quip at getting a place in life after death was an attempt at humour (and a touch of sarcasm).

 

I am not using it to justify my beliefs, which I admit are beliefs, and am open to them being changed, with enough evidence apart from intuition.

 

@onetrack - If I caused offence, I truly apologise.

 

Jerry I thought your post was thoughtful and logical.

 

(However, anyone knowing me and my atheistic outlook would probably say "yeah, but you would!!")

[Marty_d]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Now that I have a keyboard, I will respond more fully..

 

Everyone is entitiled to a belief strcuture - I don't deny that.. And If i caused offience, I apologise... However I was not justifying my beleif system.. nor was I imposing it on anyone else. Statements were made that of beliefs that were stated as absolute fact  - which is that contex in which I quoted the snippets of the post.. For example the scientist (I still guess Darwin) was an amateur and devised evolution; They clearly are not true.. maybe the selection of "devised" was an accident, but in the context of "because it is total fallacy. , which is a statement of fact, makes me think it wasn't necessarily a mistake.

 

I merely pointed out mistakes of fact guiding a beleif.. I may have overdone it, but thats fine. The quip at getting a place in life after death was an attempt at humour (and a touch of sarcasm).

 

I am not using it to justify my beliefs, which I admit are beliefs, and am open to them being changed, with enough evidence apart from intuition.

 

@onetrack - If I caused offence, I truly apologise.

 

Jerry I thought your post was thoughtful and logical.

 

(However, anyone knowing me and my atheistic outlook would probably say "yeah, but you would!!")

[nomadpete]

I wasn't  arguing with the content of Jerry's post. Further, I  do not intend to offend Jerry. Or anyone.

 

My gripe with his response was to draw attention to the fact that he stated that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, BUT really set out to convert somebody's  belief structure by arguing with their personal view. Their post was not made as an invitation to debate it, but simply a statement of belief.

There are other threads devoted to debate of such details.

[facthunter]

Jerry you probably made a lengthy statement which is difficult to cover adequately in a simple reply. Most here switch off after about 4 lines. I see Atheism as rejecting a belief. Not another religion. Atheists seem to particularly threaten some religious people and attract a threatening response.. . I  see that as most inappropriate as IF THEY are going to heaven and Non believers are definitely not, surely fire and brimstone for eternity  is enough punishment already.   Caring people should pity you and  try to guide you. Are they SO INSECURE in their beliefs  they have to behead you?   Nev

Edited October 30 by facthunter

[old man emu]

I believe that if you live in a Western-style society, abiding by the man-made laws of that society, you would be living a life that is the goal of all religions. At the end of your life, if there is a Supreme Being, you either get the reward offered to staunch followers of religion. If there is no Supreme Being and it's "lights out", what have you lost? 

 

“The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interrèd with their bones” is spoken by Mark Antony in Act III, Scene 2 of Julius Caesar. That's the irony of living a "good life".

[facthunter]

IF there's a God HE/She / It won't be easy to fool. After all he knows your every thought. Anyhow God rides a Harley and wants to be an Airline pilot. Homer Simpson walks with him hand in hand.. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

4 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I wasn't  arguing with the content of Jerry's post. Further, I  do not intend to offend Jerry. Or anyone.

 

My gripe with his response was to draw attention to the fact that he stated that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, BUT really set out to convert somebody's  belief structure by arguing with their personal view. Their post was not made as an invitation to debate it, but simply a statement of belief.

There are other threads devoted to debate of such details.

I want to be very clear.. I am not offended at all. I also want to be clear, I was not intending to cause offence and my post was designed to question - yes. 

 

We all have belief systems and when we publish them in public, and the reasons for them, we may be drawing a response.

 

For example, @pmccarthy expresses his beliefs that on balance fossil fuels are better to stay with than renewables; nuclear is the next best thing and if we don't agree we are ALP lovers and LNP haters (I may be exaggerating to make a point). When others - myself included - proffer evidence to contest this, it is the normal discourse of life and all is OK. 

 

Why should expressions of religious belief based on expressed facts be any different? I pointed out factual errors in the assertions, and probable deficiencies in the logic. I accepted that some things are not fully explained, but to say nothing can explain things wasn't quite accurate either.

 

In other words, I was challenging a public statement to reconcile with statements of fact with belief with the evidence provided. 

 

I am open to there being or had been some superior being but at the moment my belief is there isn't one on  the evidence in front of me. I am happy to accept that as  an unknown and am open to changing my mind.

 

If, for example someone came in here and expressed that their true belief is that Trump is the messiah and proffered facts to support it, would we leave it at that, untested?

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

you would be living a life that is the goal of all religions.

I will remember that when whatever religion is waging their version of jihad 

 

 

Edited October 30 by Jerry_Atrick

[spacesailor]

If coal is so bad .

What is the burning of ' peat ' on that scale of carbon releases. 

It is still burnt in a few countries including Ireland. 

Were they say the  smoking. " Perfume " of the turf fire . Is so nice the tourist wish to take it home .

spacesailor

[willedoo]

I had a run in with a cane toad tonight. He jumped onto my bare foot when I wasn't expecting it, resulting in much leaping and a twisted knee. The toad and two of his mates are no longer here.

[willedoo]

That leaping was me, not the toad.

[pmccarthy]

There is a large commercial power station in Ireland that runs on peat. I was horrified to see it. Got to draw the line somewhere!

[facthunter]

Worse than Brown Coal.  Both should probably be added to soil rather than burned.  Nev

[spacesailor]

But the locals love that ' perfume ' .

Probably similar to the " smoking " ceremony.

Or nicotine stink .

spacesailor

 

[facthunter]

Lets put a high value on true facts and reject the attempts to confuse us by people with evil motives.  Nev

[nomadpete]

41 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Lets put a high value on true facts and reject the attempts to confuse us by people with evil motives.  Nev

Are true facts the best facts?

Facthunter should know the scale of factoid validity.

[facthunter]

Truth? You have to be a dedicated enthusiast to get it. . Most of the US are just not interested. It's easier to bask in a "Comfortable " Illusion.. A large % will nor even vote and Trump makes it HARD for some to do it. . It's RIGGED if HE doesn't win the vote Like before. In any other  civilised country the People would say YOU ARE KIDDING AREN'T YOU??  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Here's my guess....  Trump is going to lose, and by quite a margin. Last time, I didn't mind him so much, but for a second run? Yes, I know there are crazies out there but hey they are not in a majority.

My main worry is that lots of women will vote against Kamala on sexist grounds. I sure don't understand just why they will do this.

[facthunter]

Trump has telegraphed what he will be like for all to be aware of. It's the Republican Party who have let the USA down. GUTLESS bunch bar Liz Chaney.. I think HE will get in with the Mad Elon pouring out a flood of BS. and nearly every GOP person saying Trump won last time but was robbed despite overwhelming evidence to  the Contrary.  Nev

[red750]

More and more celebrities coming out supporting Harris, but the number to be convinced is reducing. Lastest are Jon Bon Jovi and Harrison Ford.

[facthunter]

Trump will GET them. They are brave people. Nev

[spacesailor]

Please .

Back onto topic ,

Our TV is inundated with that ' yellow one ' .

More time to him , than to , two wars & two devastating events .

spacesailor

PS  : over 200 now for Spain's death count .

 

[nomadpete]

My gripe of the day......

 

For reasons unclear to me, media only chooses to report on some disasters.

 

I am not trivialising the recent rainfall disaster in Spain.

 

I am asking why equal media attention is not given to all disasters.

 

According to New York Times:-

 

"More than half a million people were killed in 10 disasters that climate change worsened, according to a new report."

 

Off the top of your head, can anyone name the nine other ones in the last 20 yrs?

 

 

 

Edited November 3 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

They tend to get more attention if they are people like  you, Us. Somewhere in Africa not so much but its not ignored. Nev

[onetrack]

The "climate" disasters were Cyclones/Hurricanes, heat waves, a drought and a flood.

 

Cyclone Sidr, Bangladesh, 2007 - 3,400+ deaths

Cyclone Nargis, Myanmar, 2008 - 138,366 deaths

Super Typhoon Naiya, Phillipines, 2013 - 6,300 deaths

Severe storm, Libya, 2023 - 4300 deaths, 8,500 missing

 

Severe flooding in Uttarakhand, India, 2013 - 6054 deaths

Drought in Somalia 2011 - an estimated 260,000 deaths

 

Heat wave, Russia, 2010 - 55,736 deaths

Heat wave, France, 2015 - 3,200+ deaths

Heat wave, Europe, 2022 - 53,542 deaths

Heat wave Europe, 2023 - 37,129 deaths

 

They all made the local news in most cases - but we take little notice of disasters that are far away, and which don't directly affect us. Maybe a few minutes of bewilderment at the scale of destruction and death, and then it's back to the immediate pressing (for us) jobs, money-earning, and local disputes.