GRIPES

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have only had to deal with Centrelink once, - about 10 years old - and that was to inform them my father passed away and he no longer needed to draw his pension. Acted ike supremos in charge of peoples destimy and the system was designed to be indignant to their "customers". I feel for anyone who needs them.. whether temporary or long term.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Gripe of the day... Watching a game of Aussie Rules between Brisbane Lions and Footscray (er, sorry, Western Bulldogs), when the home team scored a goal, they put a chorus of a song on, and when the away team scored a goal, they put a bit of a tune on. Why do we need that? Just listen to the cheers of the crowds and enjoy the moment. And the song - Take Me Home by John Denver... a freekin' yank song about going to West Verginia!! WTF.. Why not an Aussie song at an Aussie Rules game? FFS!

 

Wolfie and I are getting rather angry!

[old man emu]

Got a letter from the State Government yesterday. Seems I've been found out. I'm  a demon speedster. 67 in a 60 zone. It must be true because a Flash for Cash to my picture.

 

What narks me is that the location is given as a 6 km stretch of  highway that passes through both rural and town areas. No indication of exactly where Kovak and his Kodak were, so there's no evidence to go on in order to prepare an address in mitigation. Also, this is another of those lovely areas where the speed limit zones chop and change frequently. At the same time there's a change in the roadside development, so one has to concentrate on potential collision scenarios more than monitoring signage and pedantically looking inside your vehicle to make sure that little needle doesn't move into the naughty zone.

 

Just to be a pain, I'm going to ask for a copy of the image so that I can identify the location, and I'll ask for the calibration results of the radar and the angle of the beam from the sender to the target. I think that that amount of annoyance is well worth the $124 that I'll probably pay for convenience sake. $124 should procure a nice bottle of red for the Parliament House Members' Diming Room.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

58 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Got a letter from the State Government yesterday. Seems I've been found out. I'm  a demon speedster. 67 in a 60 zone. It must be true because a Flash for Cash to my picture.

 

…one has to concentrate on potential collision scenarios more than monitoring signage and pedantically looking inside your vehicle to make sure that little needle doesn't move into the naughty zone.

That resonates with me, OME. Having learned to drive in a paddock far from road signs, my default driving technique is to look for hazards first, signs later. 

On some urban roads there are so many signs that drivers are distracted from watching for little kids.

58 minutes ago, old man emu said:

…I think that that amount of annoyance is well worth the $124 that I'll probably pay for convenience sake. $124 should procure a nice bottle of red for the Parliament House Members' Diming Room.

My spies in the RTA used to tell me the efforts expended in calibrating speed cameras meant they were revenue neutral.

[onetrack]

I see where operating a speed camera in Victoria is becoming a Hazardous Occupation! Two speed camera operator vehicles destroyed in one week! They'll be giving them armoured vehicles next!!

 

A bloke here in W.A. attacked a speed camera (in 2009) and destroyed it in a fit of road rage. He wasn't a real crim, he was a fireman, and he obviously just had an explosive temper.

But the camera operator got clear photos of him doing his dirty deed, and the police talked about giving him the bill for a new camera - $130,000!

He did incur a major fine, but managed to avoid going to jail, because he employed a good lawyer. I STR the police eventually reduced the bill to a camera repair job, that still ran into multiple thousands.

 

https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2646.asp

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-02-13/man-pleads-guilty-to-destroying-130000-speed-camera/294654

 

This French comedian has fun with speed cameras, turning them into opportunistic photo booths!

 

https://artofgears.com/2015/11/19/watch-remi-gaillard-make-fools-out-of-these-speed-cameras/

 

 

The fireman carrying out his dastardly deed!

Edited July 2, 2022 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

Thats good !.

BUT

Here in the 'backwards ' ( downunder ) land. There,s a law against Assisting motorist.

 Boys in blue, the Biggest bike club in the southern hemisphere .

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Don't accuse the police of running the Flash for Cash.  The mobile speed camera program is managed by Transport for NSW. The operation and maintenance of speed cameras and vehicles is outsourced to private contractors. Opportunity for a Rort??

 

Want a bludge job? https://www.seek.com.au/mobile-speed-camera-jobs

 

Remember bumper stickers like this: I Brake for ...

I'm goging to make one that reads "I brake for cars parked on the side of isolated rural roads"

[willedoo]

8 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Why not an Aussie song at an Aussie Rules game? FFS!

Jerry, from the point of view of an NRL supporter, a Village People song would be appropriate.

[Jerry_Atrick]

 

 

[willedoo]

It's funny how the only slanderous nickname you hear regarding AFL is aerial ping pong. At least that's the only one I've heard. On the other side of the coin, I've heard southerners use a variety of names to describe NRL - kissy bums, catch me, f*** me etc.. There's heaps of them; all highly derogatory of course.

[spacesailor]

It,s Always the boys in blue that turn up if anyone stands or somehow disturbs a concealed speed camera.

Even  to flashing your lights as a warning will get you arrested  BY THOSE BOYS IN BLUE. 

Revenue Raising !. Thats all it is, as there's no deterrent after the flash ! Just a hefty donation to some fatcat in government.

IF you have that ' warning sign ' you automatically check your speed, & adjust it to whatever a bureaucrat deems a resononable speed for ' racking in the money ' . Not safety. 

spacesailor

 

 

[onetrack]

In W.A. we seem to have a somewhat reduced number of mobile speed cameras, but we're getting a lot more fixed cameras. I think they find the fixed cameras (which are pretty bulletproof, mounted on huge pipe-like structures) very useful to pick up false plates, stolen car movements, and even crims on the move.

You can always tell where the fixed cameras are, everyone slows down, and then speeds up again afterwards. Plus they're a bit obvious with a tall pipe-like structure painted black and white.

They've trialled the bullet-proof unattended speed camera trailer (ALICE), but I haven't seen it all that much, I think the testing is still ongoing.

 

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/wa-polices-latest-speed-camera-alice-here-to-stay-ng-b88916768z

 

The W.A. Police are also quite happy to advise on the location of both red-light and fixed speed cameras, so no-one can say they weren't warned.

 

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/traffic/cameras/camera-locations

 

The speed camera fines monies here all go into the Road Trauma Trust Account fund, which monies are then used to finance various Road Safety programmes and advertising campaigns.

Here's a breakdown of where all the various States send their camera fines monies ...

 

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/where-speeding-fine-revenue-is-spent

[Jerry_Atrick]

When I cam to the UK in late '96, I was amazes at the fised speed cameras. Just on normal poles, not too high, and painted bright yellow. Over here, speeding tickets aren't seen as revenue raising; in fact, speeding has until about now been largely tolerated as long as it is relatively safe (i.e. doesn't add too much to the risk already). As an example, I was radar gunned back in 2002 on the M4 doing 96mph (or at least the speedo told me that). The limit is 70.. and I thought, "that's it, I'm done!"

 

But it was abgout 6am on Christmas day and there literally wasn't another car in sight, and I never was chased; nor did I receive an invoice in the mail. A second time, coming down a dual carriageway at about 10 at night, doing about 100mph (was making an unplanned visit home from a business trip as the partner hadn't answered the phone all), I saw a motorbike in the distance. Thinking it can't be the police, as I overtake it I see the blue letters, "P O L I C E" on it's fairing as I overtake. I took the foot off the accelerator and as he came up beside me, he waved me on! If figured it was so he could get me on camera, but thought I am toast anyway, so may as well.. Never heard a thing.

 

Of course, if you speed when it is dangerous, or come to think of it, just drive dangeroulsy, they will have your guts for garters..

 

However, the pollies here have started to cotton onto the fact that it can be a revenue raiser and they are toughening up.. citing safety, but the reality is the numbers on a per-population/driving hours/driving miles  hasn't ticked up at all. These days, they are introducing average speed limit zones where cameras are placed along the roads (can be motorways, or even suburban roads) and if your average is more than that local constabulary's tolerance, a nice invoice from Her Maj will turn up on your door..

[old man emu]

As an internationally qualified Traffic Accident Reconstructionist, I take offence at this comment:  NSW Centre for Road Safety defended the funding allocations, with director Bernard Carlon telling 7News “Forty percent of our fatalities are speed related and speed cameras work to reduce that trauma. Speed cameras saved lives.”

 

To be absulutely correct, 100% of road fatalities are speed related. Injury is the result of the change in momentum in a very short time, and the change is more than the human body can withstand. The body has no momentum unless it is moving. Speed is the rate of change of distance over time. (In traffic accident reconstruction, we use "velocity" which is 'speed' in a defined direction.)

 

What annoys me as a motorist is that speed cameras, especially the "Flash for Cash" ones, are not located on the basis of analysis of historic frequency and severity of collision data. Several times on my trips to and from Sydney on rural highways I have passed these mobile units in the most ridiculous places - within a long 50 kph zone in the shopping centre of a small town on a Sunday afternoon; within a 60 kph zone in the industrial area on the edge of a small town. The most ridiculous are those on long, straight stretches of rural road.

 

These devices do not result in long-term modification of driver behaviour. Although it is not now permitted, how many of us have taught our children that something they did was dangerous by swiftly administering a punishment? The lesson must quickly be taught. I'm not denying that on the 15th June, I was doing 67 kph in a 60 kph zone somewhere along a 6 kilometre stretch of road. BUT, it took the Crown until 27th June to issue the infringement notice. What lesson have I learned? Drop my speed by at least 10 kph whenever I see a vehicle parked on the side of the road in an isolated area. Too bad if that causes the driver of the road train behind me to lock up and lose control

 

I would support the use of these devices if the Government would release the figures on the number if offences detected where the speed recorded was more than 25% above the sign-posted limit. It seems that these devices have a major aim of hanging motorists of a lamb, not a sheep. Fines collected in NSW amounted to $157 million in 2018-19, all of which were added to the Community Road Safety Fund coffer, which totals $304 million. Of that pot, $37 million (or 12 percent) was reinvested back into speed camera programs and maintenance. Funding for all blackspot programs was allocated $14 million, school safety had $24 million set aside, and public education and awareness programs were granted $22 million. That's $97M allegedly allocated. Where did the other $60M go? And whose mates shared the $37M?

[Marty_d]

Not a fan of mobile speed cameras at all.  Luckily we've had a reprieve from them down here - I don't know the full story but I've heard there was some fighting between senior police and whoever organises the civilian operators, so for the last couple of years we haven't been getting those dark-windowed vans on the side of the road.

 

There are 4 fixed cameras that everyone in Hobart knows about - on the bridge, top of the Southern Outlet and a couple on the Brooker (north of the city).  Everyone slows down for them.

 

So it makes sense that if they were to put a fixed camera in every identified black spot area - and it's not that hard to figure out where they are, every state has accident location data which you can map geospatially - then people would slow down in those areas and you would have the most impact on improving safety.  

Anything other than that is revenue raising pure and simple.  By all means have plenty of traffic cops out there and if someone is driving dangerously, hit them with massive fines/licence loss.  But doing 67km/h in a 60 zone is not dangerous driving.

[willedoo]

I don't know how effective the fines are. Where I live, I'd estimate about 90% of drivers speed. If you sit right on the speed limit, you get a dozen cars or more banked up behind you and some get very aggressive and abusive when they get a chance to pass. Most are moderate speeders - they seem to only want to do 10 to 20 kph over the limit. The worrying thing is the amount of trucks speeding these days.

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, Marty_d said:

But doing 67km/h in a 60 zone is not dangerous driving.

Yes and no.

At Law, "Dangerous Driving" is a complex matter to prove. In simplest terms, it is the product of the interaction of one or more of three things: the Human; the Vehicle, and the Environment (by which I mean the road, the weather, time of day etc.) Since an offence can only be committed by a human, then the psychology of the "at fault" human is the major factor to consider. That involves the human's responses to its own psychology as well as their application of those responses to the vehicle and the environment.

 

Is 67/60 dangerous? Not when that is how an alert, healthy driver operates a roadworthy vehicle in optimal environment. Did you know that the  speed limit on forecourt of a service station, or in a carpark is the same as that of the adjoining road? I consider a speed in excess of 20 kph to be a dangerous speed in those places, especially the car park where there are a myriad of potential dangers.

 

The problem with collecting evidence for a prosecution of the offence of exceeding the signposted speed limit for the ultimate purpose of reducing speed-related injury is that the factors that prove "dangerous" are not assessed. It is an example of the imperfection of AI.

 

Part of the evidence I was required to give in Court in a defended speeding matter was: " I saw the vehicle approaching my location. From my training and experience,  by observation, I estimated the vehicle to be travelling at a speed in excess of the signposted speed limit for that section of public road. I operated the speed detection apparatus and saw the numbers *** displayed in the Target screen. Those numbers indicated to me that my estimate was correct. That the vehicle was travelling in excess of the sign posted speed limit" And then on to how I caused the vehicle to be stopped and conversation with the driver.

 

Many were the times when I estimated the speed of the vehicle to be in excess of the signposted speed limit, but the amount was close to it. I was working a dual lane highway in a rural area. I was after the big fish, not the minnows. That's an example of the application of police discretion. Would a machine do that?

 

"Most are moderate speeders"  Studies have shown that probably more than 95% of drivers will drive at a speed they consider to be safe for the conditions. Very often that is that 10-20% above the signposted speed limit. Examine your Peak Hour trips on motorways. Are you constantly delayed by or have to avoid collisions? More likely to be delayed by congestion where traffic merges from other roads, or slow vehicles refuse to travel in the left hand lane.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

23 hours ago, willedoo said:

It's funny how the only slanderous nickname you hear regarding AFL is aerial ping pong. At least that's the only one I've heard. On the other side of the coin, I've heard southerners use a variety of names to describe NRL - kissy bums, catch me, f*** me etc.. There's heaps of them; all highly derogatory of course.

When I was a kid, we just referred to rugby as rugby. The first time I heard of a nickname for rugby was watching Media Watch on ABC in about the 90s, when the presenter nicknamed it thugby (and in the same sentence, nicknamed football as footbrawl). 

 

I guess the new nicknames show how feral the world is going these days!

[Bruce Tuncks]

My last speeding fine was on the outskirts of Palmer, a country town in South Australia. It was for 62km/hr!

There was a 50 zone through the town so I was well over the limit. There was a motorbike cop hidden by a dip in the road. No other traffic at all.

My previous was also a motorbike cop hidden behind a tree. Ten or more years ago.

[facthunter]

I can't recall even being pinched for speeding on a motorcycle, but that's only due to luck, believe me.   Nev

[willedoo]

On 03/07/2022 at 5:18 PM, Jerry_Atrick said:

When I was a kid, we just referred to rugby as rugby. The first time I heard of a nickname for rugby was watching Media Watch on ABC in about the 90s, when the presenter nicknamed it thugby (and in the same sentence, nicknamed football as footbrawl). 

 

I guess the new nicknames show how feral the world is going these days!

In the non Rugby League or Rugby Union playing world, Rugby seems to have become a generic term for both codes. Where they play those codes, Rugby refers to Rugby Union only. They are quite different; Rugby Union is still the private schoolboy game it was decades ago. Rugby League is referred to as just League or NRL. It's never, ever, ever referred to as Rugby. Doing so is about as popular as dropping a turd in the punch bowl at a party.

 

I'd assume League is also called Rugby in the U.K., as I don't think it's a major code there. From memory, Union is a bigger code than League in New Zealand, but it's the opposite here. Rugby Union never really took off in Australia as it's origins are in private boarding schools, and that makes the talent pool and following a lot smaller than League that's played in the public primary and high schools.

[Old Koreelah]

Who was it that said Rugby is a thug’s game played by gentlemen and League is a gentleman’s game played by thugs?

[old man emu]

I'm working with the Junior Rugby Union Development Officer for my part of the world. (I drive the bus that takes the kids to practice after school) The kids are telling the Officer that they find Rugby a much more exciting game to paly than League. As for its being the game of the toffs,  the landed gentry don't want their sons and daughters playing a contact sport with their dusky neighbours. The kids we are working with today will be the paddock from which we will get the next generation of Wallabies. There will be massacres on the playing fields of Eton.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I had no idea there were two forms of Rugby (Ruggers, here) until I was in my mid 20s, when working in Brissie for a year. Someone mentioned they played 5 a side union, and I had no idea what that meant. After a brief education from my work colleagues that there is a difference, that was it. I had never actually seen union.

 

In Mebourne, as a kid, we just referred to it as rugby. I never saw a Rugby pitch anywhere I had visited in Victoria.  We used to travel to Briise (my mums home town) for Christmas every year as a kid; in an EH, and then HR holden wagon. As it was summer, I guess there wasn't much going on in discussions about the game, as I don't recall any conversations about it. Apparently, a long lost cousin, though, almost made it to the big time.

 

When I moved here, I was perplexed at the game they were playing. It was very different to the game I saw, and that's when a new work colleague took me to a couple of games to educate me further..

 

Union is the big game here, league occasionally gets a snippet on the news. When I tell the locals it is the amatuer (or less) played game, it endears a lot more respect..

 

Also Eddie someone-or-other from Aus is the current coach here..

 

Reminds me: my partner decides she wants a crack at living in Aus, so we move out here in 2003 right about the time the world cup started. She is a bit of a fan, and was looking forward to the TV coverage at a sane time of day. I arranged a job in Bendigo, and I laughed at the suggestion. "You'll be lucky to get a live game in Melbourne, let alone Victorian regional TV!", She was shocked.. "Ity's your country playing the world cup.. don't you care?"

 

"Nah.. It's a Sydney... sport.. they have a team in Melbourne, but it's for the Sydnesiders living there..."

 

She grew to hate AFL.

[red750]

My daughter, who should have been a boy, but not alphabet soup, loves most men's sports (as a spectator). Has a Storm membership ticket and goes to every match in Melbourne. Won't go to the letterbox after dark, but travels alone on the train, sometimes till after midnight.

 

Also a member of Collingwood AFL, and hates it when both matches are played at the same time. 

 

She also sits up all night watching cricket, Formula 1, loves V8 Supercars and WWE (wrestling).