Are there any Creationists out there?

[facthunter]

NOTHING is as simple as it first seems especially IF PEOPLE are involved. As an atheist I'm less governed by Dogma and more free to use what dog gave me, My brain, as everybody who slows down in the wet is doing when driving. Even WHEN I was a very conscientious Christian I found the commandments too simplistic to really amount to anything definitive as a lifestyle indicator.  There's plenty of absolute CRAP in the old testament to quote it and be serious at all. It is after all a period when the earth was flat and very little science (real knowledge) about. Whatever GODS you had explained basic things like the sun rising. Rain falling etc

   Saying the bible is the "Absolute  Word of God" has to be qualified and questioned.. Which words Which Part?  or perhaps NONE. All religions regard others as wrong basically so that's where the fight starts.  Never ending tension. 

 2,000 years ago is really just Yesterday, in the big scheme of things but man's COLLECTIVE knowledge has expanded exponentially. as it builds on the solid base already achieved, ideally.  Nev

[octave]

OME I would argue that many rules we have now are innate and are a result of these riles conferring a survival advantage.   If this were not true how do we explain tribal societies that also have taboos against wholesale murder?   Since the rise of homo sapiens and also with earlier hominids there have been societal rules and punishments for transgression.     The question is can a species last any length of time without sanctions on wholesale murder and theft?.    These sanctions predate Christianity and also the old testament.     Most species do not kill their own or when they do it is under particular circumstances.    

 

 

 

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, octave said:

I would argue that many rules we have now are innate and are a result of these riles conferring a survival advantage. 

No doubt you are correct. The writing down of the rules in the Holy Book of one sect does not make them the only source. I think that most intelligent people will agree that the rules in the Abrahamic religions are a compilation of the rules of the civilisations of the Middle East.  Since I know little of the philosophies of religions other than the Abrahamic ones, I can't say the same thing about those societies.

[spacesailor]

Yet

BUT !. The modern Holy bible is written by an English King. With his interpretation. 

Not some Holy man, 

spacessilor

[old man emu]

Spacey,

The King James version of the Bible was put together by Protestant churchmen at the command of King James. He didn't put pen to paper for any of it.

[spacesailor]

I Was told .

It was vetted ( if thats the right word ), for his approval. 

Means ,it was to his liking. Not the Pope,s.

spacesailor

[old man emu]

King James had to do something to bring about a standardised Bible because sectarian differences, especially those of the Puritans, could have lead to the religious conflicts that marred the reigns of his predecessors Elizabet 1 and Henry VIII. He had enough other problems due to the political situation of his kingship - he being Scottish and not of the House of Tudor.  

[spacesailor]

Was it King James who made the 'unionjack ', the English use today.

That being the Hanover German royalty.

spacesailor

[octave]

It  would be interesting to meet someone who actually follows the bible to the letter.  

[spacesailor]

OR

To meet.

An honest politician !, 

Or is that an ' oxymoron ' 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Can you think of anything like do's and don'ts that Christ is reported to have said as a general rule? He told a few individuals to "Go, and sin no more", or the "Render unto Caesar", but the only general rule I can think was given during the Last Supper, "Do this in remembrance of me". As far as I can tell, all the other rules were created by mortal men.

[octave]

9 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Can you think of anything like do's and don'ts that Christ is reported to have said as a general rule? He told a few individuals to "Go, and sin no more", or the "Render unto Caesar", but the only general rule I can think was given during the Last Supper, "Do this in remembrance of me". As far as I can tell, all the other rules were created by mortal men.

 

I used to be more up on this when I was actively debating a good Christian friend. In fact I used to own a red letter edition bible in which the actual words spoken by christ (allegedly) were printed in red.       If Jesus said    "Go, and sin no more"  then the definition of sin needs to be clearly stated.  He is giving the advice not to sin but modern Christians differ on what is a sin.    If Christ did not give dos and don'ts how can a Christian know what behavior is allowed?

[old man emu]

The do's and don'ts I meant are those rules, like dietary rules, or how often you need to attend church services. Excommunication was a man-made thing. I don't think you'll find anything in the four Gospels that report Christ's directions on those. If there are any early Christian directions in the Bible, they come from the Epistles of Paul to the various infant churches in different cities. Those are definitely not the rules of Christ.

[spacesailor]

I,m a Heathen !.

GOD

Forgive me my sins.

spacesailor

[old man emu]

59 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

I,m a Heathen !.

 

Not a heathen, more likely irreligious.

[spacesailor]

NOOO

My wife says ' Your a Heathen ' whenever l joke about religion! .

Gets very upset with me sometimes.

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

As Dave Allen used to say,

"I'm an atheist, thank god!"

[Marty_d]

One of the guys I used to work with (very intelligent man) was an atheist, but he still reckoned that god was out to get him.  Not quite sure how he reconciled those two things.

[facthunter]

ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. So god sent Christ to atone for your sins.  isn't that what the new testament is about?   Nev

[Marty_d]

So either god is a piss-poor creator or he deliberately created humanity to fall short of his ideals.  Either way it wouldn't inspire much confidence.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Exactly how was sending Christ supposed to "atone for my sins?" . Sounds like nonsense to me. If a bad lot of bikies were a problem in my suburb, how would arranging for my son to be killed help me to forgive them? But is that not what the message of the bible supposed to say?

[facthunter]

I didn't write this stuff. I'm only quoting it. You are ALL sinners and going to hell unless you have faith in the Risen Christ.  and by that you will be saved. This implies the original concepts must have failed obviously. and plan "B" is now the go..When the "Gospel" (good news) is spread to the far corners of the earth we will be in the last days. Some think that TIME is NOW. 

 Personally I think making US in the image of god is an ultimate conceit, on our part and I can't see why god would have all the faults of design WE have IF HE was that smart.. More likely we invented him in OUR image because we are full of BS. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

What evidence is there that christ actually lived? There was a diary-keeper in Jerusalem at the christ time and he mentioned nothing. Also the dead-sea scrolls show that christ's parables were 400 years old at the time and stolen from elsewhere.

The standard test is whether there are independent sources. Herod passes this test but christ does not.

.

[spacesailor]

I saw a Doco of someone ( archaeologists )  opening a burial niche, reportedly Jesuses family.

If a sham. WHY.

spacessailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

Sorry I don't understand your point space. I usually do.

Do you mean that this story is somehow proof that it was all true?