Are there any Creationists out there?

[nomadpete]

Mark, thank you for contributing to the discussion.

 

I take issue with your assertion that atheism is weak, and especially that it denies 'self'.

 

On what are these assertions based?

 

Certainly, life is for the living. No problem with that.

 

Also, the existence or nonexistence of an omnipresent all powerful presence is of little relevance to our daily life. No direct influence of such can be proven.

 

But why assert that atheism is weak? Compared to what?

 

Also, religions are not the sole source of guidance available to folk, and often are a dubious source of guidance - historically such 'guidance' has often caused unconscionable, unforgivable brutality.

 

 

[facthunter]

Man created god in his own image. Every society has invented the one the most suitable to explain natural phenomenon that impacts on THEM. Some believe the earth is flat even today. Gradually science explains much of what we gave our god's of the past credit for so as we accumulate knowledge we have less need of a god to credit it all to. Being an atheist takes a great deal of courage, compared to swallowing indoctrinations/initiations from the group and fitting in with the tribal norms

 

You have NO invisible means of support. No belief to fall back on and give credit or blame for what happens, good or bad, but you are MORE free to THINK for yourself, and that's got to be worth a lot if you are seeking real answers. Just saying I'm too important to just die and cease to exist. I'm so intricate someone MUST have designed me. Terribly ego centric concept. Since we are still evolving how is that likely to be the case? The enormous time involved goes a long way to explaining how this could be. Some people need ready answers, and often a wrong one is better than none to them. Completing the picture is in our DNA It's helped us to survive and much of out character is developed from past ways of existing HERE on this planet (socially and physically). The only place we know of capable of supporting us, which we are very much a product of. ( The very atoms of ourselves, the heavier complex ones being from older parts of the universe, which is so vast it's almost beyond our minds ability to start to comprehend it's nature and extent. No telescope or probe has found the slightest trace of heaven or hell. It was always supposed to be "up there" or "down there". A primitive concept suiting the times as a reward/punishment system of a jealous god wanting to be eternally worshipped for making a faulty product. (US). This created God has al the character faults of many humans unfortunately so appears to be a product of mans creation rather than the reverse and also a "thing" much of this planet rather than the whole universe. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Couldn't agree more, Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Atheism lacks foundation

There is no such thing as "Atheism" until it is proven that the entity exists for it not to be believed in.

 

Man created god in his own image.

Well all I can say to that is that God is a bl00dy good looking Guy.

 

 

[willedoo]

Well I'm glad people here are able to debate the topic in a thoughtful way.

 

It's a bit too mind boggling for me to comprehend - a bit like trying to understand how big space is. I'd better go back to the Syria thread.

 

 

[willedoo]

Peter, I didn't realize The Big Bang was comedy. Maybe I should try watching it; I've never made it past the promotional ads. There's just something about those nerds on the show that I find scary.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[Marty_d]

It's good fun. And there's the bonus of Kaley Cuoco (Penny).

 

 

[willedoo]

Ok, you've got me curious now. I'll give it a go. Maybe it's an acquired taste.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ok, you've got me curious now. I'll give it a go. Maybe it's an acquired taste.

Never been able to get more than 5 minutes in, just can't stand it, and I have tried.

 

 

[old man emu]

And God Created Woman (1956 film) - Wikipedia

 

 

[kgwilson]

1. In the beginning Man created God and in the image of Man created he him.
    
   
2. And man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be God over all the earth when it was suited to Man.
    
   
3. And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on this God and saw that it was good.
    
   
4. And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground and a host of others likened unto his kind.
    
   
5. And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some were burned: and some were put apart from their kind.
    
   
6. And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over all the earth.
    
   
7. But as these things did come to pass the Spirit that did cause Man to create his God lived on within all Men: even within Aqualung.
    
   
8. And Man saw it not.
    
   
9. But for Christs sake he better start looking.
    
   

 

Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull from the Album Aqualung 1971

 

 

[nomadpete]

Big Bang (TV show) is only comedy if you can identify the asperges people around you. Having worked with a few, (and maybe being a bit that way myself), I see humour in their absolute logic, untainted by emotion. And how that affects non-asperges (emotion driven) people.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

....And Man saw it not

 

But for Christs sake he better start looking.

 

Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull from the Album Aqualung 1971

When visiting Australia in the 70s Anderson was interviewed on GTK. You know the sort of thing: because they're famous, they must possess great wisdom about everything. Unlike most rock stars, he came across as very intelligent -and just a mite arrogant.

 

He ran rings around the hapless young reporter.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You know the sort of thing: because they're famous, they must possess great wisdom about everything. .

I hate that. Fact is actors usually drop out of school early, and rock stars barely even attended!

 

Yes there's some very intelligent ones, but it's not the average.

 

 

[old man emu]

Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull from the Album Aqualung 1971

What song is that? I can't find it in the lyrics of Aqualung Jethro Tull - Aqualung Album Lyrics | LetsSingIt Lyrics Tracks 7 & 8 are interesting.

 

 

[kgwilson]

What song is that? I can't find it in the lyrics of Aqualung Jethro Tull - Aqualung Album Lyrics | LetsSingIt Lyrics Tracks 7 & 8 are interesting.

It wasn't one of the songs. It was published on the album cover. It is widely regarded that the theme of the whole album was the distinction between religion and god. The two sides had individual titles. Side 1 was entitled "Aqualung" and side 2 "My God". Side 2 had tracks "My God", "Hymn 43" and my personal favourite "Locomotive Breath". In the last chrous the words "Old Charlie stole the handle" are replaced with "God he stole the handle". God is mentioned irreverently and cynically as is the hypocrisy of religions in every track on side 2

 

 

[old man emu]

. It is widely regarded that the theme of the whole album was the distinction between religion and god.

I didn't pick up the extent of that theme when I read the lyrics. What little I read gave me the opinion that thre was an anti-god leaning. As with a lot of these albums from the late 60's/early 70's you have to be aware of the artists's previous work. It was a time when many profound philosophies were expressed in words and music. Nowadays, the philosophies are as warped as the "music" expressing them.

 

 

[facthunter]

Humans write all the words about the gods for various reasons and very variable accuracy. They usually disagree with other "concepts" in the interpretation if not the general (historical) drift. (Abrahamic based especially) Just imagine some person was actually, (Other than just claiming to be) interacting with GOD directly. I'm sure she would stand out in the crowd. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I like the "she" nev.

 

 

[Yenn]

And God Created Woman.

 

What a film, what a woman!

 

Look at her in later years and she didn't age well. but to my mind she was the most beautiful at her prime.

 

As for God i believe in God, but I have to define it. God is what caused all the worlds and the solar and other systems to exist. God is what makes the world go round and runs evolution, but if your definition of God is the bloke who made us in his own image, then I fear he was a bit off course when he dished out intelligence.

 

 

[octave]

As for God i believe in God, but I have to define it. God is what caused all the worlds and the solar and other systems to exist. God is what makes the world go round and runs evolution, but if your definition of God is the bloke who made us in his own image, then I fear he was a bit off course when he dished out intelligence.

Although I do not believe that there is a cosmic architect or god I have absolutely no problem with your position. The only problem I have is when people deny reality or scientific evidence if it does not conform with their existing beliefs. In the distant past religious folk had trouble accepting the evidence that the the earth orbited the sun and that the earth was not in the centre. If religion is to continue, it can not continue to deny the evidence. If the choice is modern science or denial in order to continue to believe in the literal bible then more and more young people will make the obvious choice. but belief in the bible as a metaphor or an interesting series of stories could be compatible with modern life.

 

I do have a problem with people who rubbish a scientific theory without even having the slightest understanding of it. I do not have a problem with people who are not interested and therefore are not very interested, that is fine but saying I don't understand it therefore it must be rubbish is just ignorant and sad. If anyone thinks big bang is rubbish for goodness sake read a book or something and then they can have an intelligent debate.

 

 

[Bruce]

If man was created before woman, why on earth did he have tits?

 

It is only too obvious that males are modified females, you hardly need to know any anatomy to see this.

 

The ignorance of those ancient scribes is not surprising, what is amazing is that there are some around who think they are the source of all wisdom.

 

I have read that there are schools in Pakistan where only one book is permitted.. Are there any schools which have the bible as their only book?

 

 

[octave]

Octave; I do not think intelligence has much to do with it and reading books is obviously bad for you.

How so? How do you know reading books has been bad for me? What is this badness and how could you possibly know my character? Can you give examples of how reading books has been bad for me?

 

A universe without end being acknowledged wholeheartedly but then naïve enough to believe that the beginning is/was discernable.

The big bang theory does not propose a universe without end.

 

The big bang theory can not rule out a cosmic creator.

 

It of course is up to you whether you accept the evidence of not as long as you are actually aware of what the evidence is.

 

Could you recommend a book, so I too can become enlightened...

Sure can, "A Brief History of Time" - Stephen Hawking "Big Bang: Origin of the Universe" -Simon Singh

 

Or how about a video clip as a start.

 

 

I am not so keen on the presentation of this clip but it is short and quite accessible.

 

For something longer but still quite accessible try this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5M7OzLNJs

 

I am not interested in convincing you of the theory but I would like it to be known that it is not just some fanciful story without any evidence. To disprove the big bang theory you must really discredit red shift in the light of other galaxies, cosmic background radiation etc

 

I do think that some religious folk think that people like me would become believers if only we were not seduced by the big bang theory. If the Big bang theory were to be scientifically disproved I would would be thrilled and excited about what the new evidence was and what it implies. What new hypothesis could explain the new evidence. The one thing I would not do is to replace the theory with belief in a god unless it had rigorous evidence.

 

Cheers

 

Octave

 

 

[facthunter]

Mark, What is the basis of YOUR assumptions also? You make some pretty definite statements and generalisations. So far nothing has turned out to be simple. Powerful computers enable much of the theories to be put to the test and more rapidly evaluated that way as to effect over time. (lots of it). Nev

 

 

[Bikky]

Although the big bang theory is mighty convincing, I'm seriously reconsidering my position as atheist after watching this.