Bury or Burn?

[old man emu]

This week I attended the funeral of an in-law who fell to the dreaded Bengal Lancer. She'd been told that her condition was terminal, so, being a highly well organised person, made all the arrangements for her funeral while she was able to do so. She arranged to be cremated.

 

Now I'm left in a quandary. Her ashes will be collected by the family, and no doubt kept in an urn somewhere as I did not hear that they were to be scattered or placed in a memorial wall. So, how does one connect with the memory of a person if there is poor access to their final resting place?

 

I'm against cremation because I fear that it will speed the destruction of the memory of me. It sounds selfish said like that, but to me, burial creates an sort of immortality. My grave site will be a place where my family can come at anytime, hopefully to gain solace by remembering what good, if any, I did for them.

 

Once my contemporaries have ended their days, I hope that my grave and bones will provide historical information for the inhabitants of future centuries. We have learned so much about the lives of the ancients through examining their exhumed bones, and studying good placed in their graves for various reasons. I hope to be buried with some sort of time capsule which will contain information about me and my life, as well as some items that were important to me in my life.

 

How could I give knowledge to those in the future if my corpulence was consumed by fire and the ashes of my bones scattered to the Winds?

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Not that I think it makes any difference, reason being I'll be dead, but I think I will have to be cremated to share my ashes in China for my Wife to have a place to go to if need, and my children to go to that spot if they feel that need.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

OME you have a good point there. I'm fascinated by history and learning from ancient skeletons, but I reckon future archaeologists can study the remains of my house instead of my bones.

 

My wife and I want to be buried with the son and daughter we lost as babies. Trouble is, they're in kid's plots, so it seems the easiest way is put our ashes with them. Too much good land taken up by graves anyway...

 

 

[Bikky]

I'm all for cremation. If people want to forget me when I'm dead - well, whatever! I've got used to it while I'm alive.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My mum is in a grave which I like to visit, it is near the graves of other family members. My fathers ashes are in a wall in a crematorium which I have visited once in 25 years and didn't enjoy it.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

My fathers ashes are in a wall in a crematorium which I have visited once in 25 years and didn't enjoy it.

Let me elaborate, I would have my ashes scattered in our respective favorite places, in China a beautiful local mountain area where I proposed to my wife that she might visit down memory lane.

 

Do you think that would make a difference in your case compared to a crematorium?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Yes it would . Ideally, and it could be done now, dads ashes could be put on mums grave and I would never feel obliged to visit the crematorium garden again.

 

 

[rgmwa]

I've been thinking about this recently as I lost both my parents late last year within 4 months of each other and they share the same grave. They wanted to be buried so the family would have a definite place to visit. My own preference at the moment is to be cremated just because it seems simpler. At our local club, some past members have had their ashes scattered over the field from an aircraft while another flight does a missing man formation. I witnessed that a while ago and found it quite moving. Maybe someone could fly my plane on the day - if I still have one.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[old man emu]

I'm all for cremation. If people want to forget me when I'm dead - well, whatever! I've got used to it while I'm alive.

I've been creating my family tree for a while now, and as a result I have visited the graves of many from previous generations. There's none of their contemporaries left with personal memories, but I remember that they existed, and maybe through my genealogy records, my descendants will remember them. When I visit their graves, or the churches they attended, I get a feeling of belonging. I'm not an island, but part of a mainland.

 

One of my greatest regrets is that I had three great-uncles. One lies in an unknown place on a WWI battlefield in France or Belgium. The other two were twins who seem to have died as infants of the Spanish Flu in 1920. I know the identity of their graves in Rookwood Cemetery, but they are unmarked, as are many in that section, so I can't go to a particular spot to reflect on them. And now it seems that their section of the cemetery is having the remains exhumed so that the area can be used again. Who knows where their remains will go.

 

As a side note:

 

Isn't it peculiar how those on either side of the God/No God fence treat the remembrance of the dead?

 

OME

 

 

[Bikky]

Both my parents died quite while ago. My father went first in 1984 an my mother battled on until 1996.

 

We cremated my father (as he wished) and scattered his ashes off the Goolwa barrage and his remains drifted out to sea.

 

As my mother explained to me from a very early age, our loved ones remain with us in our hearts always.

 

After my mother died (in my arms ... a beautiful experience, by the way), I scattered her ashes in the same place.

 

I don't feel the need personally for a marker or gravestone or a physical place to visit.

 

I understand and respect we are not all the same in this regard.

 

Not a day passes without me remembering them both and cherishing the special moments we had together. It gives me a feeling of joy rather than sadness. I haven't lost really them and I never will - until my time comes, of course.

 

As for my ashes? Two words - pepper factory.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I don't feel the need personally for a marker or gravestone or a physical place to visit...

 

Not a day passes without me remembering them both and cherishing the special moments we had together. It gives me a feeling of joy rather than sadness. I haven't lost really them and I never will - until my time comes, of course...

Spot on, Bikky. After attending too many burials, I've found ash scattering ceremonies to be far more uplifting. With cremation, people have a lot more choice about where their remains end up; the location can be a nicer place to visit than a cemetery.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cemeteries don't last forever either and how do you know the ashes are just those of you loved one? They are also quite modified by the heat and are just a few chemicals as residue. Even the Pyramids were raided and defiled. Burying vertically and plant an oak tree above. That can be arranged..That way some of your carbon and other minerals from your remains is recycled into the tree, which is a living thing for a long while. Nice thought? Then if it decays it's back to the elements to nurture more growth. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

I have read somewhere (Uncle google told me) we are all made up of atoms and particles that originated in the last big bang, and these get recycled almost eternally into other forms, and furthermore, those atoms are held together by energy. How come they haven't run down? All through my life I've been told that there's no such thing as perpetual motion, there's always some sort of friction to slow things down. All those orbiting electrons just gotta run outta steam after a while, and slow down.

 

Then what happens to my vertical, decaying (recycling) corpse, with Nev's elegant, but ageing tree above?

 

 

[facthunter]

The electrons orbit at fixed distances from the nucleus depending on how many there are. The "older" elements have larger numbers of them. Its just a field of energy rather than a little "moon" orbiting the protons and neutrons . It's to do with Plank's constant and/or the Bohr atom, and 2, 8 18 8.numbers Look it up. I'm doing this from memory and that ain't reliable. Temperatures affect them too. At near absolute zero they change properties. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

It wasn't totally frivolous postulation.

 

My suspicion is (an uneducated guess) that the whole show is energy. That is, those things that we call particles, are simply energy manifesting itself as matter.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Hey nev not a good idea planting a tree on top off me mate as his farts stink so I would have to cut it down if it was a sented gum Neil

 

 

[willedoo]

I find from a family/relative/friend point of view, a burial provides a sense of closure, particularly if there's a graveside service.

 

The problem I have with cremations is that you sit through the service in the chapel, the coffin is there, and then at the end, they just draw the curtains and then you all just bugger off after having a cup of tea and a sandwich. It seems a bit surreal.

 

I often visit my parent's graves, along with my grandparents, great grandparents, great aunties, great uncles etc.. It's a nice thoughtful and quiet experience, something you can't have with a cremation, unless your loved one's ashes are spread somewhere where you can access them. At least with public cemeteries or gardens of remembrance, even an old workmate or casual friend can visit the grave of someone.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I often visit my parent's graves, along with my grandparents, great grandparents, great aunties, great uncles etc.. It's a nice thoughtful and quiet experience, something you can't have with a cremation, unless your loved one's ashes are spread somewhere where you can access them. At least with public cemeteries or gardens of remembrance, even an old workmate or casual friend can visit the grave of someone.

I rarely visit my parents' grave, preferring to remember them in other ways. Every time I use one of my dad's workshop tools I pay homage to him. I like to stop at our sacred picnic table in Yabra State Forest. My dad loved that spot so my sister buried his sweaty workclothes there. I'd like to think his spirit is still there.

 

 

[old man emu]

They were buried in Benalla where they had lived for many years, over 200km away from my place, and I have not visited the town since.The two cremations were for former work colleagues of my wife.

You may not have visited their graves since they passed away, but if you ever wanted to, you have a place to go. What would your wife do, if the two colleagues of your wife were very close to her personally and in life gave her essential support, and she had a need to have that support (mentally) again? She couldn't really rock up to their relative's home and ask for some private time with the urn.

 

I suppose it all depends on how strongly one believes that a person's essence (spirit, soul) continues to exist after their physical existence ends.

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

IF there's a soul I doubt it's in the ashes or the coffin. A Collage of photo's might have relevance. People make money out of all this stuff unfortunately, and cemeteries eventually get houses built over them. Small town cemeteries were valid where families remained in a locality. Kids move to the other side of the world these days. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

I suppose what one does with mortal remains of loved ones seems to be a very personal thing. My thing is that I'd like my remains to be located in a fixed place, and since my BMI says that I am obese, I guess that while I'm alive I'm sequestering Carbon, and if I'm planted six feet under, I'll go on doing that for several years. I won't spike atmospheric CO2 by decomposing an a blaze of glory.

 

 

 

OME

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

OME - I think you hit the nail on the head - it's a very personal thing. The last time I was in Aus was to bury my father (well, I may have been back once for settling the estate, but that would have been so short a time, I can't remember). I haven't been back since, but his memory is very strong in me and I am dogmatic about making sure his memory lives in my son (unf, although born while my father was alive, my daughter was only a month or so old when my father passed away)..

 

I have other relatives who have died and I haven't been to their funerals, let alone seen their final resting place (or cremation - not sure what became of them). However, I don't have the urge to have a physical place to remember them - as I age, I think of them all more, however, even in younger years, they were never too fr from my thoughts.

 

I was surprised many years ago when I raised the subject with my wife about our mortality and she was adamant she wanted aplace to visit if I was the first to pop my clogs (which is most probable). For me, it's what my wife and children want; Although I am now questioning my position on faith (another subject entirely), my current beliefs do not lend themselves to souls, after-lives, etc.

 

If you visit a UK flyer forum, you may see a thread commemorating the first anniversary of te passing of a much loved, ecclesiastical forumite. No doubt, he will have a memorial at his church, and presumably he is buried there. However, his forumite friends choose a bench at his favourtie flying destination than has a plaque remembering him.

 

Guess it's horses for courses

 

.

 

 

[old man emu]

It was recently announced that the grave sites in the old sections of Rookwood Necropolis in Sydney are likely to be re-used to satisfy current demand. I have two grand-uncles interred there. They died as infants just on 100 years ago. Records have provided their grave site numbers, but there are no markers to positively identify them. If the sites are to be re-used, I'd like to apply to have their remains re-interred with their parents, my grandparents, who are in another cemetery.

 

I'm probably the only one who knows they ever existed, as my mother was born after they died, and my aunt has passed on. I feel that it is up to me to acknowledge their existence and to bring them back into the arms of the family. My desire is not based on any theological leaning. It's just that they are part of what is me.

 

OME

 

 

[Bruce]

I read that we have molecules in our bodies which were once part of any historical person you care to name ( Cleopatra, Hitler, Captain Cook)

 

So we are all part of life on this planet....

 

, Personally, while I like what OME has done, I don't feel the need to do similar things..

 

 

[robinsm]

Because you have to purchase the plot, it will be interesting to see if there will be any rembursement of monies paid to the relatives. leave the dead in peace, plenty of room out side the main centres.