The question of "97%" scientist's climate change concensus.

[Bruce]

In rural Australia, there is no impediment to going off grid, and I think country electricity is subsidized by the city, so it should be encouraged.

 

In fact it is an a nasty sort of way, in that a new connection is priced right up there to be just under the cost of an off-grid sydtem.

 

 

[facthunter]

The connection prices( if unsubsidised) are of a high order, especially if a fair distance is involved. They are not faked. Proper figures are out there and there's some good publications available that will keep you informed about alternatives. Even of the Newspapers won't. Remote areas would have to be subsidised as the cost is LARGE..What else could anyone reasonably expect? To go and live an a remote area (and Australia certainly has those in abundance) and expect all the good features of suburbia is a bit of an ask. but a bit of help is practical in some circumstances.

 

A Grid system is questionable and should be re-examined and evaluated. It was originally conceived based on Coal fired dense generating centres when global warming was not considered or even mooted. Later it was reinforced as a means of competing and driving down prices.. Well that didn't happen after we lost control of the network and generators and privatised most of it so it could be in some areas hopelessly gold plated and in others neglected and used for price gouging events only where profits were maximised at the expense of price and reliability. More decentralisation is now possible. Whether this is good or bad we need to know not from a position of favouring COAL and existing interests. but from reality and future costing trends. Tesla's battery has been on line for a couple of days now. Built on time..Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Good luck with going off the grid Jerry. I really wanted to on the farm, but the problem was the fridge. Not many women can cope with the idea of a top-opener. But the fridge shouldn't be so much of a problem in England. Can you grow your own firewood? If so, I reckon going off grid should be viable.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's -1 at the moment, so a fridge isn't going to be a problem, here. Plus, apart from the lagers (bitters are kept at cellar, not room temperature), most foodstuffs except meat whoch requires salt, can have a very good shelf life without refrigeration. Although, out property has a coolroom as in a former lfe, it was a 200acre apple, plum and pear farm. It doesn't quite have that many acres now (shame, because it needs that many to make at least an average living here). We also have an oil-fired central heating system and Aga (thankfully we have a stove and oven on electric for the summer). Should have gone long on heating oil futures 6 months ago given the upwards price movement in oil.

 

We have a log store mostly with firewood from the property. But quality firewood here is c. £100 - £120/tonne; we have 3 wood burning stoves and use them (to conserve oil); I am not sure how much we go through, but there is no sustainable firewood plantation on the propery, wo will take a few years to build. Of course, what often happens is a farmer will cut some old trees down, dry the wood and sell for well below retail prices - It's not reliable supply, but dried, cut and delivered we were quoted £75/tonne (needed to take the lot though).

 

Defo viable here. Enough wind and sun (using latest gen PVs) to charge enough battery power for most applications; Our stream isn't powerful enough to put a turbine on though, which is a shame as no fish live in it. I am doing research at the moment because, if nothing else, going totally off-grid (including seweage that converts waste to clean water) will be a big selling point on my 16th century property (thankfully not listed so we can make mods much more freely).

 

 

[facthunter]

There would probably be enough methane coming off the dam on my place to power the house. You'd just need a plastic membrane over part of it. IF you go diesel generator it's only efficient at pretty much one power setting (about 95% of rated output). You need storage of some kind, inevitably. Community projects would work OK on various scales. Battery storage here seems to start at around $9,000. There are Pump Hydro projects being considered at old mine sites etc. You could probably winch a great weight up a slope with the same efficiency, and that wouldn't take long to get set up. You just have to want to. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I reckon living off grid is a great thing to do and a great adventure. So obviously I reckon you should do it. And if you keep a book on the savings, there will be money available to buy the odd load of firewood.

 

But a lot depends on your partner. The only guy I know who lives off the grid had his woman leave him years ago.

 

There is this song " you got 40 acres and I got 23, but I got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the key" so 150 or so acres in Somerset should be big we think.. can you really grow 3 crops of wheat in a year?

 

 

[octave]

This was the off-grid house my wife and I built and lived in for a little over twenty glorious years. Recently sold this property.

 

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[spacesailor]

All members who live suburbia try and get a quote for an "off grid" five MW system.

 

only the ones who get a quote reply. PS down this way second-hand fork-truck batteries are from $1,000. Big AH's.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

This was the off-grid house my wife and I built and lived in for a little over twenty glorious years. Recently sold this property...

...nice, but where's the airstrip?

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't see the need to go off grid if you are in suburbia and the power line runs past your front door. Access to that power is worth a certain price so you should be charged for having that access. It has a value, but IF it's not reliable or price effective, it has not got a good future in an open and free market.. Electricity costs about 3 times the value and cost of the electricity to get it (and sell it ) to you. That mark up is a margin you can eliminate, but there has to be a fair LUMP of power used to justify doing it for just yourself. I see communities doing their own thing in certain localities where the circumstances are good for such an approach. The GRID costs a lot, and will always be subject to a failure of some kind by it's very nature of being exposed to the elements and degradation. To duplicate it costs nearly double so the need must be truly and accurately evaluated before such design features are built in. Just about all Hospitals would still need a good emergency power supply, if they do much surgery. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

FH

 

No, not to disconnect from the grid, but to have your solar panels NOT connected to the grid.

 

Just a stand-alone system to do with whatever I please.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

l Well at least until they give you are market based figure for YOUR power if they NEED it, There would be times when they could pay a good figure. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

FH

 

I was offered a four KW solar kit (second-hand, demount in myself) free!,

 

A Sydney firm offered a couple of fork-truck batteries at the same price, would have huge amp-hour, just pay delivery,(three or four good cells per battery), or they would have gone to the tip/scrap-metal.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

It only takes one cell to be a bit weak and the show doesn't work when they are all in series. I have a friend who was getting "maybe" OK? batteries from a car service centre and giving them to me.( I use them for remagnetising magneto's). They looked good and I wasted a lot of time on them but none would really hold a charge or provide a reliable high amp discharge,. which if you don't achieve it, the magnet isn't saturated . False economy at the end of the day...

 

Re the solar kits they have improved so much. Get current even on overcast days and are about 1/4 the price of 6 years ago. Batteries are the BIG jump (cost wise) into a newer deal.. There's plenty of other ways of storing energy. WE haven't even tried yet. ie run a heavy electric powered train up a steep hill and park it at the top when the solar and windmills are working till you need the current and get EGR on the way down when you need it.. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

FH

 

Fork Truck batteries are 2 volt wet cells, joined across at the top by heavy lead connectors, so I cut the connector to isolate each cell,

 

then jump leads to the good cells to get required voltage.

 

Made the worker jump when I soldered quarter inch copper tubing across some cells to demonstrate my thinking!.

 

Huge contraptions to have taking up space, and weigh a ton.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

You could get large glass containers and make your own plates by casting them in lead. That;s how the bigger ones used to be made. Lead peroxide paste goes into the matrix if you want to go that way. Dangerous gases given off so ventilate or use them some way. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Here's a New thinking on global warming,

 

science have said the earth spin is slowing down!, if the earth's rotation around the sun is also slowing, we could be getting a little closer to said sun.

 

So solar flares get a little too close for comfort!.

 

Only time will tell. (must get the Great-grand children to let me know. LoL[ATTACH]49104._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

spacesailor

 

[Bruce]

yep space, most of the wind and tide energy is actually sourced from the rotation of the earth and it is slowing down for sure. They can see it on accurate clocks, it is quite measurable.

 

Back in the days of the dinosaurs the day was about 20 hours.

 

I don't think the rotation about the sun is changing, but the sun is getting hotter anyway but this will not be noticed by your great grandchildren, it will cook us in about 50 million years I think.

 

 

[spacesailor]

It's not the "Sun's rotation" but Earth's rotation around the sun that will degrade and let us fall closer the the heat of the sun!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Don't worry space, the earth is moving away from the sun at about 15 cm a year.

 

 

[Marty_d]

All that about the earth's spin slowing down etc is really beside the point. Global warming has the potential to severely negatively impact us in this generation. All that other stuff may have an effect in a few hundred million years. That's like worrying about your male pattern baldness while gushing blood from an artery.

 

 

[facthunter]

People who have have studied it for a while at considerable depth and all the qualified experts are convinced we are already in trouble.

 

The deniers say we have always had changing weather. We have just had a snowstorm here, nothings really happening. Cruise ships will be able to go across the North pole and we can drill for more oil in arctic waters and Mine Antarctica. Whoopee. While hurricanes and cyclones get more destructive and extensive and new records are set in highest ever temperatures one after another.. Sea temperatures ( the CAUSE of more violent cyclones) continue to rise and marine species are found at higher latitudes as they migrate to cooler waters, and coral reefs are bleached and dying in the warmer tropical areas. Nothing happening folks It's all made up by those anti capitalists and greenie scum, to reduce the profits of the coal industry. These changes are happening relatively fast coinciding with the population explosion and the Industrial Revolution, which is hardly surprising . The fossil fuel amounts we consume are staggering. Water will be more valuable . (Probably is already if we cared to think about it.).Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Water more valuable?

 

You can tell when something has become more valuable - it gets sold off & privatised!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Wars over water. It's already happening. Droughts and the diversion of water are significant factors in conflicts across the Middle East. Parts of the USA are rapidly running out of water. Closer to home, water is being stolen from our precious rivers, and politicians defend the thieves.

 

 

[facthunter]

You can't safely drink out of most rivers. We use them as sewers. Nev