The question of "97%" scientist's climate change concensus.

[spacesailor]

Still can't see the point of "driver-less cars", I f a person doesn't want to drive, jump on the bus, & relax.

 

Hate to see a car diving along a road that's been "realigned" like the Michael highway, on the way to Narromine, (from Sydney).

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

If I lose my license to drive!,

 

Can I drive a driver-less car?.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's n interesting question, spacesailor. I am rather looking forward to them as in theory, I should be able to have a good meal, few drinks, stumple into the car where I have pre-programmed it to drive me home and I spend the nex morning cleaning out the stench resulting from my body's natural defence to over eating/drinking and then shaking it all about.

 

In theory, no, you shouldn't just like in theory you can get in pi$$ed as a parrot head home. In reality, I would imagine there may be some emergency procedures in case a couple of wires cross or some mud or grime gets flicked up into some control module (Range Rovers had an issue with the control box under the drivers seat ingesting moisture from steam cleaning the carpets, or something). Result is you will have to have a licence and stay sober in case you have to take charge, I would guess. At least for some of the cars and while there are non-autonomous cars on the road.

 

There are other obstacles to driverless cars Iheard - e.g. Mercedes Benz is designed to protect the occupants and to hell with other road users (within the regulations, of course). So is it to be programmed to mow down the errant child running onto the road chasing an equally errant football or is it to swerve erratically to miss, possibly colliding head on with a truck or into a pole (note, lowercase; this is no aversion to the Polish). Our reactions are normally to swerve to miss.

 

So, it will be a while before we see the removal of a requierment for a licence to drive, unless the autonomous cars have no manual emergency override function.

 

 

[Marty_d]

...So is it to be programmed to mow down the errant child running onto the road chasing an equally errant football or is it to swerve erratically to miss, possibly colliding head on with a truck or into a pole ...

The ethics of this are quite interesting. Theoretically the computer can make a far faster and more objective decision than a human driver. What if it's a choice between hitting a child or an old person? What about male or female? Would an obviously pregnant woman be a higher priority to miss than one who is not (obvious)?

 

In the end it'll either have to be agreed with in some kind of EU decision, or it'll be left to the unconscious biases of the AI programmers. I don't think there'll be that many occasions where the decision tree needs to get to that level, but it'll have to be considered.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

And therein lies the problem... I have a Volvo V50 which I used for my commute between Somerset and London. As you know, modern cars have all sorts of engine management and safety control systems. The common problem is if the mass airflow fliter gets bunged up, the car just stops. I was driving along the motorway back home and while the car was happily trundling along at nighr and a "tad over" 70mph, the on-board computer decides to shut down the engine. Car starts decellerating and cars behind are coming up quicker than anyone is comfortable. After hte obligatory "WTF?", I indicated and started moving to the left lane. I decided to keep rolling while I worked out what was happening (left lane is for slower traffic).. Nothing on the text display to show any fault, what sparese gauges I have read normal (have fuel, temps OK).. Could be a fuel block, so while rolling, switch off and switch back on again and with bit of relief, I am on my way again (with about 100 miles to go). Must have repeated the process maybe 10 times. To the garage with an imemdiately suspected mass air flow filter. Nope - it is fine. Took a bit of elimination but it seems that if the fuel pressure drops slightly for more than a few seconds, the programmer (and obviosuly regulators) thought what a good idea to just stop the engine without any notification or the fact that sufficeint fuel was still being delivered to carry on comfortably. There are many other "design features" that make me worried about totally autonomous vehicles with no override.

 

I think wihen these autonomous systems get themselves in a situation where they think there is something wrong, they should do the same as an ab initio student with an instructor: "Your vehicle" and let the driver take charge. Of course, that is simpler said than done given the time for the driver to wake up to the issue.

 

 

[Bruce]

There was a good bit in "2001" where the computer decided to lock the spaceman out of the ship because he couldn't be trusted. Quite right too...how can you predict just what a person will do?

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Quite right too...how can you predict just what a person will do?"

 

I'm running Win10!

 

How can you predict what is happening with the next download (upgrade) to the system, when you have zero control over it.

 

No human interface, no information from AI, and no keyboard to unscramble that mess.

 

Just pop in the disk with a backup operating-system and start all over again.

 

 

[Bruce]

There is this theory that the only hope for the human race is that the computers will take over and look after us.

 

Yep, it is a small chance but it is our only one. We are way too stupid and short-term in our thinking to survive without this happening.

 

 

[Marty_d]

There is this theory that the only hope for the human race is that the computers will take over and look after us.Yep, it is a small chance but it is our only one. We are way too stupid and short-term in our thinking to survive without this happening.

There's a kid's movie called "Wall-E" which shows this quite well.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

<snip>I'm running Win10!

 

<snip>

You can't use running and Win10 in the same sentence (or prose, to be more accurate). You can use dragging, walking, crawling, struggling with, nurturing, etc. Running is something one cannot do with Win 10.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I found myself running away from Win 10 - and haven't looked back.

 

There! I did use 'Win 10' & 'running' in the same sentence. But I'm no good at prose - I think they only teach that lofty stuff in private schools.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think the correct prose is "trying to run away".... Can't use running.. period! (er, I better thingk of a better way to phrase that, too)

 

 

[Marty_d]

But I'm no good at prose...

You don't have to be, that's why you pay her... ohhhhh, you're talking about something else.

 

 

[spacesailor]

My O S Is "up and Running"

 

When I am Using said equipment I am "running" it. Even tho Bill Gates wants to take command of MY equipment.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

You aint runnng it.. it is controlling you... Get used to it...

 

(or go Linux)

 

 

[coljones]

Still can't see the point of "driver-less cars", I f a person doesn't want to drive, jump on the bus, & relax.Hate to see a car diving along a road that's been "realigned" like the Michael highway, on the way to Narromine, (from Sydney).

 

spacesailor

Trains, plains and trams are point to point only and buses and ferries are not much better. Autonomous vehicles aren't bound by these constraints and you can relax while you go to your ultimate destination on time without uncoordinated timetables

 

 

[coljones]

And therein lies the problem... I have a Volvo V50 which I used for my commute between Somerset and London. As you know, modern cars have all sorts of engine management and safety control systems. The common problem is if the mass airflow fliter gets bunged up, the car just stops. I was driving along the motorway back home and while the car was happily trundling along at nighr and a "tad over" 70mph, the on-board computer decides to shut down the engine. Car starts decellerating and cars behind are coming up quicker than anyone is comfortable. After hte obligatory "WTF?", I indicated and started moving to the left lane. I decided to keep rolling while I worked out what was happening (left lane is for slower traffic).. Nothing on the text display to show any fault, what sparese gauges I have read normal (have fuel, temps OK).. Could be a fuel block, so while rolling, switch off and switch back on again and with bit of relief, I am on my way again (with about 100 miles to go). Must have repeated the process maybe 10 times. To the garage with an imemdiately suspected mass air flow filter. Nope - it is fine. Took a bit of elimination but it seems that if the fuel pressure drops slightly for more than a few seconds, the programmer (and obviosuly regulators) thought what a good idea to just stop the engine without any notification or the fact that sufficeint fuel was still being delivered to carry on comfortably. There are many other "design features" that make me worried about totally autonomous vehicles with no override.

I think wihen these autonomous systems get themselves in a situation where they think there is something wrong, they should do the same as an ab initio student with an instructor: "Your vehicle" and let the driver take charge. Of course, that is simpler said than done given the time for the driver to wake up to the issue.

You need a C30!!!

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I aint going near a Volvo again. We also have an XC90 - biggest pile of carp as well... I am going back to Jap - Patrols and Cruisers...

 

 

[spacesailor]

I Tried Linux and Ubuntu, just couldn't get the hang of it,

 

But for a laugh I had a PC with out-rigger hard-drive's, one Win 98, one Linux, one plain old DOS, worked by powering the HD with required software. PC itself had a HD installed which was a pain to get to submit to the other HD being C:.

 

A: 1.4 floppy. B: 250mg superdrive.C: which ever chosen. D: CD burner. E: DVD burner. F:quad partitioned HD in removable drawer. OR the HD I tried to recover from disasters.

 

When start screen came on it had my name and audio said "Hello spacesailor", and end screen said "goodbye my friend hurry back please"

 

Each HD connected by OPTICAL connector..(WAY back then)

 

Can't do sheeeit with Win 10.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Win 10 is making be return to Linux - though I would probably go SuSe or Mint. There are user issues with Linux - for example, for intellectual property reasons, few, if any distributions come with veio codexes installed - you have to do it yuorself. However, I run a 586 pentium using CentOS server (no GUI) for mail, domain and IM servers and it works a treat.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Mint reminds me of a Win98 screen.

 

I run Linux Puppy (from a USB stick) on an old laptop without any problems. Played with Ubuntu and Mint. Then got bored with them - they simply worked straight out of the box. No challenges. Better than Windoze though. And a free office package that does everything I want. Unlike Windows, Linux doesn't seem to need massive updates every time I boot up.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm pretty skeptical about an autonomous car. Programming something to deal with a situation, means you have to anticipate that situation and that never happens fully in the real world. Trains still collide and they run on rails with central monitoring. Seen some aviation autopilots do some unpredictable things too where the analysis of the environment is easier to consider as being relevant to the operation.. Humans drive badly is a proven thing, but does everyone have the RIGHT to drive as a given. Sure they don't when they fail a medical or a driver test which might have little relevance to driving to the shopping centre in the daytime. Some who pass a test easily still drive badly. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I aint going near a Volvo again. We also have an XC90 - biggest pile of carp as well... I am going back to Jap - Patrols and Cruisers...

We recently bought a Hyundai Santa Fe - mainly for the 7 seat setup, so kids can be separated. Very similar to the XC90 but less than half the price.

 

 

[spacesailor]

". Unlike Windows, Linux doesn't seem to need massive updates every time I boot up."

 

I'm in that predicament with my Win10 desktop.

 

my answer is to disconnect the modem, wait a minute and try again, to see if it stops that update.

 

I found most old PC's are jammed full of updates, that stop the HD being usable, Hence my HD drawer to delete 20 pages of updates from said drive, return to owner to get their pictures off.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The easiest way to block Win 10 auto updates is to go to the networking properties of your network connection (wi fi or ethernet) and set it to a metereed connection (will not impact your broadband billing). Windows won't auto-download anymore.

 

@Marty_d, Santa Fe's are not quite 1/2 the price of an XC90 over here; cars from the far east seem to be a tad more expensive here. I suppose because the are taxed in import from outside the EU.

 

[edit] which reminds me.. now that Australia has no mass car production anymore, as the government taken off those protective taxes on car imports and reduced them to WTO 20%? And removed the "luxury car tax" for cars imported over $30K (I presume it has increases in the early 2000's).