ISLAM. SOME THOUGHTS ON THIS FROM HISTORICAL WRITINGS

[Phil Perry]

"If the people of this religion [islam] are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed."

 

Muhammad ibn Zakariyā Rāzī (865 – 925 AD) was a Persian physician, alchemist, philosopher and scholar.

 

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

 

Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos, 1391AD.

 

-“Nor can the Plundering of Infidels be in that sacred Book [the Quran] forbidden, since it is well known from it, that God has given the World, and all that it contains, to his faithful Mussulmen, who are to enjoy it of Right as fast as they conquer it.”

 

Benjamin Franklin, Founder Father.

 

“He (Muhammad) poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind.

 

The essence of his doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.”

 

John Quincy Adams, Founder and 6th president of the U. S.

 

"The Koran and the Mussulman legislation emanating from it reduce the geography and ethnography of the various people to the simple and convenient distinction of two nations and of two countries; those of the Faithful and of the Infidels. The Infidel is “harby,” i.e. the enemy."

 

Karl Marx, 1808-1883.

 

"When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters."

 

Mark Twain, 1835-1910.

 

“No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which Islam had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

 

Winston S. Churchill, 1899.

 

-“There are such [Western] social values today in Europe, America, and Australia only because during those thousand years the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do – that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.”

 

Theodore “Teddy” Roosevelt, 26th president of the U. S.

 

"We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with a wild god."

 

Carl Gustav Jung (1875 – 1961), founder of analytical psychology.

 

”Talking to an Islamically educated Arab is like talking to a pious European of the fourteenth century."

 

Aldous Huxley, “In a Tunisian Oasis” (1936).

 

"Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Mohammedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of the world. "

 

Bertrand Russell , 1872-1970.

 

H/T 'Gilgamesh' Historian, Writer and Commenteer.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

STYX.. . .( wearing a shirt this time ) with a rather good appraisal of why WE in the West, really do not understand Muslims.

 

 

[Marty_d]

"When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters."

 

Mark Twain, 1835-1910.

Oh, the irony.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh, the irony.

Yep. I giggled at that quote too. Irony wasn't invented back then it seems !

 

 

[winsor68]

STYX.. . .( wearing a shirt this time ) with a rather good appraisal of why WE in the West, really do not understand Muslims.

 

Are you saying people don't understand themselves???? Or are you (and the turkey in the video) just failing in your understanding?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Are you saying people don't understand themselves???? Or are you (and the turkey in the video) just failing in your understanding?

Both of the above ( below ? ? )

 

 

[Bruce]

Without Islam, we would likely still be in the dark ages, when the church was all-powerful. Life expectancy was short and ignorance and cruelty prevailed .

 

There is a story of a merchant from Baghdad presenting the holy roman emperor Charlemagne with a clock, like presenting a mirror to a savage.

 

Islam created the dawn of science, with proper numbers. Here's an arabic word... algebra. Without algebra we would still be using prayer as the sole medical treatment for everything.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Without Islam, we would likely still be in the dark ages, when the church was all-powerful. Life expectancy was short and ignorance and cruelty prevailed .There is a story of a merchant from Baghdad presenting the holy roman emperor Charlemagne with a clock, like presenting a mirror to a savage.

 

Islam created the dawn of science, with proper numbers. Here's an arabic word... algebra. Without algebra we would still be using prayer as the sole medical treatment for everything.

Oh,. . .as far as I know, and what I was taught at school,. two Indian mathematicians are credited with developing what we now call ALGEBRA. . . namely, Aryabhata of Kusumapura and Brahmagupta in the 5th century AD. 100+ years before Mohammed was dictated the exact words of Al Qu'ran in a vision from Allah in the desert. . . Forgetting for a moment that he was described in may religious texts as an illiterate nomad.

 

The Arabs had a hand in t yes,. . but not until a while afterwards, and added their numerical system to an altered version of the one that the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Chinese also had a big hand in developing.

 

'Islam Created the dawn of Science' you say. . . ? Took a small part in it perhaps. . .they were very good at appropriating knowledge of the peoples that they conquered, even the immense written learning stored in the great library of Alexandria was carefully denuded of technical books which Islamic scholars deemed 'Useful' to their cause. . . before the rest of it was burned down as being 'Unlislamic'. Islamic followers do not appreciate any history which preceded 'Islam'. . .the Bamian Buddhas of Afghanistan, the historical statues and buildings in Syria. . .etc. . . .they are very good at erasing the past for their own ends. . ..

 

Plenty of source material out there if you want to take the trouble to dig it out and digest Bruce Mate. . ..

 

And as for us still being in the Dark Ages what about the Jocks then ?. . Jeeze . . if it hadn't bin for John Logie Baird inventing Television. . .We wouldn't have ever had 'Neighbours' or 'Home and Away, . . or 'Number 96'. . . or worse. . .BBC News.

 

I am horrified at that thought mate,. . .I lie awake at night shivering at the thought of what we'd have missed without Islam. . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

even the immense written learning stored in the great library of Alexandria was carefully denuded of technical books which Islamic scholars deemed 'Useful' to their cause. . . before the rest of it was burned down as being 'Unlislamic'.

Might want to check your sources there Phil - it was my understanding that the majority of the destruction of the Great Library was by christians under the orders of Emperor Theodosius around 250 years before the muslims conquered Egypt.

 

 

[robinsm]

Without Islam, we would likely still be in the dark ages, when the church was all-powerful. Life expectancy was short and ignorance and cruelty prevailed .There is a story of a merchant from Baghdad presenting the holy roman emperor Charlemagne with a clock, like presenting a mirror to a savage.

 

Islam created the dawn of science, with proper numbers. Here's an arabic word... algebra. Without algebra we would still be using prayer as the sole medical treatment for everything.

Rubbish. Arabs and other middle eastern people are from countries, nothing to do with a slave trading paedophile getting messages while stoned. Religion has nothing to do with science. People have to do with science. Not religion.

 

 

[Bruce]

Point taken robin, but seriously important advances did take place in that part of the world at that time. I think that western Europe had become ossified and there needed to be a break from the influence of the too-established theocracy established there.

 

 

[Bruce]

Another point robin.. people are only able to pursue science if they can do so without being killed for blasphemy or heresy.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Might want to check your sources there Phil - it was my understanding that the majority of the destruction of the Great Library was by christians under the orders of Emperor Theodosius around 250 years before the muslims conquered Egypt.

HA ! Just testing to see if you're alert Marty !

 

We need more Lerts.

 

 

[facthunter]

if Islam is so terrific why kill those who aren't fortunate enough to believe (infidels ) and thereby achieve a beaut afterlife. Surely going to hell is the ultimate punishment (otherwise it wouldn't be hell.) You can trust science if it's done according to the proper method. Faith doesn't work in a car purchase or dealings on earth. I'd rather a bridge was designed by trained engineers. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Just because islam was advanced thinking 1000 years ago doesn't make it good today. In fact. one of the problems is that it is so clearly written that it locks people into what is now barbaric medieval thinking.

 

But 1000 years ago it was new, although I accept what people have posted here and now say that the times which produced islam also produced scientific breakthroughs.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

if Islam is so terrific why kill those who aren't fortunate enough to believe (infidels ) and thereby achieve a beaut afterlife. Surely going to hell is the ultimate punishment (otherwise it wouldn't be hell.) You can trust science if it's done according to the proper method. Faith doesn't work in a car purchase or dealings on earth. I'd rather a bridge was designed by trained engineers. Nev

Yes Nev,. . .ancient, fixated and rigid religious beliefs can be problematic as time goes by.

 

My Dad's best friend and Co-Director George, always said that, although he had no particular religious beliefs himself, . . that he didn't mind three of his Lancaster crewmates kneeling and praying befre getting into the aircraft for a bombing raid. He told Dad that,. . .We never got shot down,. .. so maybe there's something in this praying malarkey". . .

 

But there Was the ' Skill, Luck, Chance, and Statisticals' . . .?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes Nev,. . .ancient, fixated and rigid religious beliefs can be problematic as time goes by.

My Dad's best friend and Co-Director George, always said that, although he had no particular religious beliefs himself, . . that he didn't mind three of his Lancaster crewmates kneeling and praying befre getting into the aircraft for a bombing raid. He told Dad that,. . .We never got shot down,. .. so maybe there's something in this praying malarkey". . .

 

But there Was the ' Skill, Luck, Chance, and Statisticals' . . .?

Ah, but then there's the German civilians who would've been praying that they didn't get bombed. Which side was god on?

 

 

[robinsm]

Point taken robin, but seriously important advances did take place in that part of the world at that time. I think that western Europe had become ossified and there needed to be a break from the influence of the too-established theocracy established there.

Yes the advances did happen, but it had nothing to do with religion, what about the chinese advances...is that a result of religion or just industrious people whose time came?

 

Lets leave the religion out of it. Bright people are in all countries,

 

 

[robinsm]

Another point robin.. people are only able to pursue science if they can do so without being killed for blasphemy or heresy.

Or maybe they make advances so they are not killed as punishment for not producing....note...germany in WW2, Egypt in the Pharoahs reign, Russia early in the 20th century etc etc. Nothing to do with peace love and mung beans. Most technological advances are associated with wars as peaceful people do not need to invent to survive.

 

 

[robinsm]

People, Islam is not a religion of peace, it is predicated on war, oppression, sexism, paedophilia and threats of death if you did not follow its teachings or disagreed with his teachings.. It consist of the drugged out ravings of a slave trader with children for wives. The adherants were iliterate desert dwellers, uneducated, incestuous people. Please, do not mix up intelligence and religion, they do not go together. I am not defending any other religion, just this one is dangerous at the present time. I have heard all the historical arguments for the other religious attrocities from other religions, but we are dealing with this one now and it presents a clear and present danger to our current way of life.

 

 

[facthunter]

Universally, most hated are the atheists. so thinking is a threat as is seeking freedom.. There are many places I could not walk down the street and proclaim I don't believe a god exists, and survive. That's hardly a satisfactory situation from a point of view of live and let live and being half reasonable. Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

as long as everyone is playing by the same rules, no problems, however, they dont. Reasonable yes, one eyed religious fanatic, no. Sorry Nev, I understand and agree where you are coming from but unfortunately actions speak loud and they are shouting.

 

 

[Yenn]

Malasia is a Muslim state, but they allow others to live there. there is now a push by the PM to radicalise the state. This is being opposed by the royalists, original rulers who still hold some power. They were the original sultans of the states that make up Malaysia and are saying that the PM is corrupt and so is his government and is using religion to cover up their deficiencies.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Ah, but then there's the German civilians who would've been praying that they didn't get bombed. Which side was god on?

A profound question that. my Mother asked the same question when my younger Sister was murdered. However, I think that we'd have to QSY to one of the the 'Is there really a god' threads in order to try to make any sense of it all. ( And fail so to do, more than likely )

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Malasia is a Muslim state, but they allow others to live there. there is now a push by the PM to radicalise the state. This is being opposed by the royalists, original rulers who still hold some power. They were the original sultans of the states that make up Malaysia and are saying that the PM is corrupt and so is his government and is using religion to cover up their deficiencies.

Around 12 months ago, the King of Saudi Arabia made a goodwill visit to Malaysia in one of his private Airbus A380s. . .was feted by the Malay Government and offered to finance lots new Mosques,( and their accompanying Saudi trained Imams ) all over that country.

 

The Saudis believe in and rule over one of the most stringent forms of Islam, ie, Wahabbism. This, as similar to the Salafists stick to every word of the Qu'ran . . .not only this but they RIGIDLY enforce it's violent teachings to the letter; along with it's clearly prescribed mediaeval punishments for any transgression. . . .examples of this culture readily checkable are : Women publicly Stoned to death, Beheaded, or just flogged around 100 times or so, for the crime of being raped. Homosexual men, or any man who is publicly 'Denounced' as such, even if he is innocent, but people just want him out of the way. . . this is very effective for getting rid of business rivals apparently. . . even by only one other male person, are either thrown from the top of a high building,. Any of these unfortunates who miraculously survive death, are finished off by stoning. Those hanged by the neck from cranes usually do not survive. There is always a baying crowd filled with bloodlust at these events.

 

I wonder if the Saudi King's visit to Malaysia was in any way connected with their recent Government announcement with regard to Islamically 'Radicalizing' the state ?. . .could be a coincidence I suppose. . . Surely it couldn't have anything to do with the Billions of Petro Dollars pumped into the Malaysian economy by the Royal House of Saud ?. . . .meh. . . that's patent nonsense. . . .

 

I always found my time in Malaysia to be a pleasant experience, they never seemed to mind selling us beer anyhow. . .no jeep loads of patrolling 'Religious Police' employed to hunt down and beat up improperly dressed foreigners as they do in parts of Dubai and certainly in Saudi. . . my friend Graham earned a broken arm and shin bone after bieng stopped in Dubai on his second day in the City. He made the mistake of drinking a can of coke in the street. mind you, fair doos to the Saudis,. . it WAS the first week of Ramadan. . .so he probably bloody deserved it for disrespecting their culture. . .Ignorance is no excuse really.

 

I agree Mr. Yenn,. . . this Islamic stuff is not really compatible with our comfortable civilized Western countries . . . ( USA excluded as they are all bloody gun mad drongoes. . .)