Taxpayers paying for drugs

[Bruce]

The aborigine who killed a nurse in the north of South Australia was under the influence of ice.

 

This ice was certainly bought with his welfare money.

 

I say that the politicians who are too weak to pay welfare with a credit card system are responsible for the results of giving cash to murdering addicts.

 

Are there any bleeding hearts out there who will argue against some controls on what welfare recipients spend money on? In real life, I don't know a single one.

 

 

[nomadpete]

There is no magic bullet. Unfortunately in the outback there is already a roaring black market going. Not a lot of cash for purchases. Generally such things as grog and drugs are distributed by IOU's. Welfare that I saw was used up within the first week (it's not paid as cash), through the nearest store with EFT, where it was immediately used to buy food and whatever. Yes there would be grog bought, but the drug dealers don't do EFT in the Bush. Then (for instance) in the lean week whilst waiting for the next welfare payment to come through, the price of a slab would double on the black market but no actual cash changed hands. There would be bartering and such of whatever they could get value for.

 

Ice and petrol sniffing became a much worse problem when well intentioned people tried to restrict grog, because it therefore became easier to get (and lighter to carry).

 

The only answer I see, is to remove dollar value from all welfare "payment"(for all colours of humans). Welfare must become a pathway to a better life and better culture. If welfare only provides Food kitchens, essential goods for healthy survival, direct rental assistance paid direct to landlords, etc, that would lessen the misuse of welfare money. "Disposable income" must only come from employment. There will always be welfare dependants. It has become a culture that can be mitigated by education. Education also increases quality of life, health and lifespan. It reduces all other costs to the taxpayer. But it would require discrimination (an admission that equality is a myth, that most of us strive to improve ourselves (doesnt that mean make oneself better than before - so no longer equal to before?)), and enforcement through a system of unpleasant 'incentives'..... carrots and sticks.....

 

Rant over.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The aborigine who killed a nurse in the north of South Australia was under the influence of ice...

Years ago one of my sisters was a nurse in the Centre. As the sole medico in the community she once spent a whole night with a knife to her throat as she tried to stitch up a head wound inflicted by an axe. I believe she received no counselling or support. Had that incident been properly dealt with, the later tragedy might have been avoided.

 

 

[old man emu]

How can any unemployment welfare system work when the recipients are provided with the products of employment, but have no access to the production process?

 

How much employment in Secondary and Tertiary industry is there for those whose homelands, once the centre of their universe, are now now located on some far-flung galactic arm?

 

You can't reasonably expect indigenous Centralians to abandon their homelands to find post-Industrial Age work elsewhere. Mismanagement and 19th Century European ignorance have virtually wiped out a long-lived culture without profiting from the culture's accumulated knowledge. It would be difficult, but not impossible to restore these cultures, maybe not fully, but in a form which one could call 'Contemporary Indigenous'.

 

How can these people, who have every moral right to remain in their cultural homelands, generate the trade goods (money) locally to trade for good made elsewhere by other cultures?

 

Until the means of production are available to these people, then this inefficient and demoralising system of providing 'sit down money' will be the only method whereby they can secure economic equality of a sort with their countrymen who have access to the means of production.

 

OME

 

 

[Yenn]

Where does anyone get a right to do anything. look at the rest of the world and you will see people who were indiginous and have been pushed all ways. Just look at your own background. If we could stop the world, then aborigines could stay on their homelands and live in the traditional way, but it won't happen. The local aborigines may have been better off with English colonisation, than if France Holland, Spain, Portugal, Turkey or Germany had arrived here first with the intent to settle.I really can't see any way for indiginous people to opt out of the rat race nowadays. I know it seems sad, but the answer is not to just keep throwing money at the problem and throwing people in jail. They need to be educated and encouraged to assimilate.

 

As far as the proposed changes to the constitution, what do the aboriginals want?. At present the constitution is just setting out the way the country is to be run and does not have a preamble and that seems to be what they really want to be changed.

 

 

[nomadpete]

OME,

 

Ideally, your post sounds nice. But I feel it can only be a 'nice idea'

 

I grew up in Sydney. No, I'm not saying that gives me a 50,000 year ancestral history there. But as far as my life goes, that is the cultural heritage that I was born into. I really grew up wanting to live my life there, in the culture that surrounded me. You could say that I have (rather, had) a moral right to spend my life living in that culture, and somehow that the rest of the changing world around me should go out of it's way, and spend up big to accommodate my old lifestyle after world economics made my training, lifestyle, and personal culture redundant.

 

The reality is that, when the world changed around me, and all the familiar outdated technologies disappeared, I was faced with a choice. Either dig my heals in and try to maintain a cultural bubble for myself (jobs for telegram boys, anyone?), or remove myself to a location where I might struggle through learning new ways to feed my family, with all the uncertainty, and extra hard work that involved. So I moved a thousand kilometers, retrained multiple time, accepted new standards and adjusted to New social groups. It's the way of the world. We either adapt or go under. It is an impractical folly to suggest that we can preserve the old ways of any social group after their system has, for whatever reason, failed. I revere the great knowledge (sadly already mostly lost), that has brought indigenous Australians so far. But creating a morf'd new half and half culture would constitute a hollow mockery of their once admirable, proud heritage. Remember that Aboriginal heritage was originally nomadic, so it was already SOP to move on to New places when one food source was exhausted. Our attempts at supplying 'camps' or 'white feller' townships is destructive to their culture. But they cannot be self supporting nomads in our current Australia. Their coastal food sources have been overtaken by urban sprawl, just as surely as our small crop farms have. I have spent some time in remote areas, and seen the spectrum of individuals, ranging from some adjusting well to the challenge, through to those unfortunate who never will.

 

The only thing I see for certain is that institutionalised welfare dependency is destructive, regardless of skin colour. And that very large sums of government conscience money is wasted on supplying free unsuitable housing in remote communities (and probably true in cities, too)

 

None of the options are palatable, nor politically correct.

 

But I think there are some possibilities that could help, on individual level, but first you have to find individuals who are ready to ask for help.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Yen, just for a moment, think about how we would feel if our next Federal Election returned a majority of seats occupied by hard line mosslems? And we suddenly found ourselves in a situation where we were compelled to assimilate with the new culture?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

You could assimilate or leave the country. It has happened countless times in history. I'm sure my Irish ancestors loved their homeland, culture and identity but along came the bloody English and they had to assimilate or sail away. Many stayed and learned to live happily. Some have never accepted it and still cause trouble.

 

 

[old man emu]

Nomadpete,

 

I think that you and I are on the same track, but in different trains.

 

I suppose that you are non-indigenous. That impacts on the thoughts you expressed above. You were lucky in that you were raised in a society that provided the training (aka education) for you to operate in a post-industrial society. This society sees migration from traditional homeland in search of the promotion of self-development as an acceptable action.

 

True indigenous education allows its graduates to operate in a hunter/gatherer society where success is measured in terms of basic survival. For these societies, their training is aimed at surviving in their own homelands. Don't forget that these people have tribal areas and strict protocols for crossing boundaries. Sure, they were nomadic in that they moved from place to place, but always that movement was confined to their tribal areas, except for approved trade or ceremonial activities.

 

My view is that non-urban indigenous people will not gain entry to post-industrial European style society until they are given the opportunity to make positive contributions to that implanted society.

 

OME

 

 

[Bruce]

OME, your heart is obviously in the right place, and the Aborigines have a good friend in you. But I have a slightly different opinion, and that is to say that Aborigines are given lots of opportunities, but they are under no pressure to take any of them up.

 

I was once involved in an offering of Natural Resource diplomas for park rangers, and the big problem was to find candidates among Aborigines. It is way too easy for them to do nothing.

 

Personally, I believe in a much more paternal approach, where "siddown money" is dependent on doing the right thing, like washing yourself for starters.

 

 

[nomadpete]

The point I tried to demonstrate, was that all people have to motivate themselves in order to have a better lot in life, in our changing world. Not suggesting that's easy. It first requires courage to identify and let go of cultural paradigms that no longer serve in the new (changing) environment. That means taking personal risks. Then it involves personal setbacks whilst learning, adopting and adjusting to New methods, behaviours and social framework. Taking on new stuff like that also means sometimes accepting some parts of the deal that are unpleasant. That's all about making personal risk/benefit judgement.

 

So, in summary, the word "personal" dominates my view on cultural change/assimilation/evolution.

 

Hence my resentment of govmint "money throwing" attempts to holistically fix these problems.

 

 

[nomadpete]

OME

 

Why should it matter whether my DNA contains remnants of the oldest continuous blood lines on the planet?

 

I have worked alongside, and socialised with folk from many different groups. Stayed in numerous outback communities whilst working there. I don't profess to know the minds of all tribal affiliations but base my ideas on personal observation.

 

Unfortunately many of the more articulate indigenous individuals are not acting in the interests of the majority (sounds like our elected government), the media presents a perverted view to the public, the government only acts to feather it's own nest, and the people most in need are left in limbo.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's hundreds of different tribes who lived nomadically and permanently here for say around 40,000 years. During that time the centre dried out and some adapted with bores and grain seeds to the harsh environment . Others in more idyllic places didn't have to move on when the place they were in exhausted the food readily available. They didn't live at high population densities. I doubt you can wind back the clock. It just doesn't happen. If these people want to live as before there's a large challenge. The kids will fly the coop and go to the fringes of towns. Grog comes into the settlements. Profit makes sure it will keep happening. The "tribal' rules traditions and initiations break down. The elders have no control, generally. Sometimes the food goes with a drought happening. The whities pinch all the good spots. The mines spoil a lot of waterways with heavy metals. Look at the Fly River in PNG (Ok Tedi Mine) People are susceptible to the effects of white man junk food they have a low tolerance for' Alcohol is bad for all but worse for them as they haven't experienced it for thousands of years like some people. They catch diseases and don't get attention and distrust western medicine. The kids like hot cars and motorbikes, and pinch them. The dugouts are powered with Suzuki outboards that litter the beaches and cost money so more turtles have to be killed to pay for this They range further and stress populations of wildlife.. They raid ute toolboxes at streets in the late afternoon They resent whiteys and don't like yella fella's. They feel dispossesed that's for sure. WE would too, in similar circumstances. Dreamtime and the rainbow serpent are what they believe in. Houses have spirits in them that make it hard to live there for some. Pointing the bone is a death sentence for them. Separate existence is Apartheid in principle. Does THAT work? I believe we as little kids should be born equal, regardless of race, and have an equal chance of getting "somewhere". Whatever that IS I don't know. Yesterday is gone forever for all of us. We all adapt to change but our native people don't get a lot of REAL help. They get what WE think SHOULD be good for them, and I don't see any improvement over the time I've been looking and travelling. I'm disappointed at some of what is happening and we have work to do in respect of our own society and the lives of those who were here when we arrived. This place was only supposed to be a penal colony for the dispossessed of English society. It was supposed to be uninhabited. (conveniently) Macquarie made it a place to desire to migrate to (against the rules)and there's no other place I'd rather be, But it's not perfect. There's plenty needs attention. the job's hardly started. We should apply ourselves to a better outcome. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

I like your summary, Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

One day, the wheels will come off the whitefellers gravy train, and the deliveries to settlements will dry up. Then there will be a terrible price to pay for having been so dependent. Not that this will be the fault of the Aborigines.

 

If we could only make them less dependent in the meantime they would be better off in the long run. There are some cattle stations run by Aborigines, I hope these are going ok but it is an enormous ask to get tribesmen to become managers.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I'd recommend a book by an outsider who lived in NE Arnhem Land for decades. He learned local languages and actually listened to the people. It's a tragic story of how incompetence, mismanagement and outright betrayal by white fellas has destroyed much of the progress made by Indigenous people.

 

Why Warriors Lie Down and Die: Towards an Understanding of Why the Aboriginal People of Arnhem Land Face the Greatest Crisis in Health and Education Since European Contact- Djambatj Mala eBook: Richard Trudgen: Amazon.com.au: Kindle Store

 

 

[storchy neil]

I have delivered dongas to some remote places up north them white ants sure loved em

 

what cattle stations costing us millions to keep em running asked about the 16g grader at moree and the rest of the gear neil