greens are

[facthunter]

They both were notable workers and gained nothing from concealing their birth status. They were elected to their positions by people who voted freely as they are entitled to do at the moment. Not everyone has the same values but are entitled to be represented by people they choose. That's the deal. Brandis is a bit disingenuous with some of his suggestions. He'll be posted to somewhere soon like smokin Joe was. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

The good news is that they can both still renounce their other citizenship and stand for election again in the future. Their honesty in immediately standing down, without trying to hide or deny it (unlike some members of the major parties), won't do them any harm in the polls.

 

 

[storchy neil]

my point is

 

sorry officer I thought my licence to drive was current

 

judge mr bradly your licence is your responsibility you were driving on a not valid licence fined 500 dollars plus cost neil

 

 

[facthunter]

The work they did was not hypothetical. They did nothing fraudulently either. Certain countries have an automatic restoration of citizenship for descendants, so should they be excluded too?. The rules were changed in Canada about a week around the time she left at age 3 months with both parents always being Australian citizens. They are not claiming any excuses and have resigned and lost their jobs. That's more than enough in my view.. You have made it clear you HATE the Greens Neil, so you are not likely to be very impartial about these two are you?. Your analogy above is not really appropriate with the complexity of the situation involved in the citizenship issue and the rules written in by the so called Founding Fathers in a BRITISH penal colony where ALL citizens were BRITISH, and we didn't envisage the movement around the world like it is today. You could work anywhere today , in Australia, with half the workers around you being born overseas. Australia has changed whether a number of us like it or not. The Ab originals didn't get much chance to approve or disapprove the immigrants and how it affected their government. They became non citizens regarded as fauna......Perhaps the rules are out of date. A lot has changed in the last 150 years in this Country, and anyone here wanting to go to a better place?. You'd have to look hard to find it.. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

no nev the facts are they failed a basic requirement that has been around since 1974 75 perhaps someone can bring up the actual date if I knew about this how come they didn't know about this LAW NEIL

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm sure they did, as there was a lot of focus on one T abbot about his citizenship as he was born in the UK of British parents and many requests under FOI in Australia and searches in England were not successful in solving it. The Greens involved didn't see they could be affected and were surprised when it surfaced . One was 3 months old and the other 18 months I think. With all the effort directed to clarifying the T Abbott situation not being successful it looks like it may not be such a simple matter as is made out. Nothing like going on line to Vic Roads and pulling up your file or checking the expiry date from your last licence renewal.. It's a bit like Dutton expecting all refuges to have their papers with them or they are illegals. Trumble is making the most out of the incident blaming the Greens for being disorganised. Funny coming from the NBN, Centrelink, Census, Border farce ID papers, Doubly dissolutional election, and many other fiasco's including the FEUD to the death (of the PARTY) with M Monk.

 

 

[Cosmick]

no nev the facts are they failed a basic requirement that has been around since 1974 75 perhaps someone can bring up the actual date if I knew about this how come they didn't know about this LAW NEIL

Australian Constitution 01/01/1901

 

 

Part IV Both Houses of Parliament

 

44. Disqualification

 

Any person who:

 

1. is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power; or
    
   

 

 

[storchy neil]

thanks comick been in force a long time my thinking was some like that but there was a sheeeet fight back in the seventys or there about about the same problem of duel citizenship regarding political figures

 

And I aint old just mature :tongue in cheek:neil

 

 

[facthunter]

116 years ago and a very different world to what we are in today. You become a person of whatever country you are in when you are born even if it's in a train carriage. Nothing to do with the nationality of your parents or where they permanently reside. Weird? People go overseas to work these days for months or years . You get anywhere in 24 hours. Nev

 

 

[octave]

Australian Constitution 01/01/1901

 

Part IV Both Houses of Parliament

 

44. Disqualification

 

Any person who:

 

1. is under any acknowledgment of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or a citizen of a foreign power; or
    
   

"Throughout the 1960s, Australian citizens were still required to declare their nationality as British. The term ‘Australian nationality’ had no official recognition or meaning until the Act was amended in 1969 and renamed the Citizenship Act. This followed a growing sense of Australian nationalism and the declining importance for Australians of the British Empire. In 1973 the Act was renamed the Australian Citizenship Act. It was not until 1984 that Australian citizens ceased to be British subjects."

 

Citizenship in Australia - Fact sheet 187 – National Archives of Australia, Australian Government

 

In 1901 this did not disqualify British Subjects. This change came with the disintegration of the notion of the British Empire The notion of Australian citizenship is relatively new. It is clear that these two needed to resign, the law is the law even if it is a bad law. I do find it irritating that people seem to think these 2 lost their jobs because they did not know about the requirement rather than what their status was. A couple of years ago I lost my citizenship certificate. I needed to present it to get a passport. I naively thought that I could just identify myself and they would check their records to find evidence of my citizenship, alas it is not necessarily that straight forward, it seems there is not a filing cabinet or computer file with a big list of citizens

 

Yes, these 2 failed to follow up their nationality situation. I watched their press conferences and neither of them blamed anyone but themselves and they resigned in a dignified manner.

 

 

[David2ayo]

my point issorry officer I thought my licence to drive was current

 

judge mr bradly your licence is your responsibility you were driving on a not valid licence fined 500 dollars plus cost neil

A very easy thing to happen, especially if you move around, and, as Neil says, it seems to be one rule for the 'ordinary man' and another for the Ruling Class. In NSW they will take your licence and/or rego if, for example, you get pinged by a speed camera on a long weekend, maybe twice , the letter goes to a home address and is ignored by whoever is there, and you end up unlicenced or unregistered or with a bit of luck (?) both. Many of these rules are designed by people who have good education and a steady life, and when you get people whose lives are a little chaotic and combine that with a lack of understanding, it results in an unfair outcome.

 

David

 

 

[kgwilson]

I married an Australian. I assume she is a citizen given that she was born here & has an Australian passport. When we lived in NZ she was automatically granted NZ citizenship when she married a NZ citizen. All done for free. I guess she can't become a Pollie unless she renounces her NZ citizenship & I have no idea how you do this. We always owned a property here so when I retired we moved into it. I thought I should apply for citizenship & that's when the bureaucracy hit.

 

First I had to become a permanant resident even though NZrs have some odd status of being able to live & stay here indefinitely. Just don't become a criminal or you get deported which is pretty fair. There is a 58 page "Residency" booklet & 30 page form and the cost was about $5000.00. I think it is more now. Plus I had to get all sorts of information that was also going to cost $xxxx. Once that was all done after a period of time, I think another year I could apply for citizenship. This was cheap at only another $600.00. I had a check & took the on line citizen test. Passed it 100% without looking at anything. I read somewhere that when a lot of Australians were asked to complete the test they actually failed it.

 

I had a good think & asked myself what benefits did I get from being a citizen. I had no intention of becoming a criminal so deportation was not a concern. I had a medicare card, a tax file number, owned real estate, had bank accounts, paid rates, stamp duty and income tax etc & came to the conclusion that the only thing I could not do was VOTE. If I was a citizen not only could I vote but I would be compelled to vote. Personally I think forcing you to vote is undemocratic, but with the preferential system my vote could end up going to someone I didn't want in.

 

The result was/is that I did nothing. So I can't become a Pollie. I don't have dual citizenship. I don't have Australian citizenship & I can't vote. Not such a problem & it saved me heaps in time, effort, stress & money.

 

 

[Bruce]

You are welcome kg. I reckon New Zealand has better politics than here and so they should take us over.

 

 

[facthunter]

That wouldn't be hard. The last one John Key, did a fair job and didn't do it for the money. New Zealanders blame the gov't for everything that goes wrong, drink too much and hug you in the street and punch above their weight often. Life isn't quite as easy there as here. We are a bit soft.. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I took the citizenship, so now I pay more for an Aussie passport, & most country's charge more than the Kiwi's for a Visa.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Cost me $60 to escape Christchurch. Its flooded at the moment. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You are welcome kg. I reckon New Zealand has better politics than here and so they should take us over.

Bruce do you mean there might be a secret undergound Kiwi conspiracy to mount a Coup d etat?

 

Every Nu Zeeund accent I hear now triggers my defence alerts.

 

 

[facthunter]

Bit gravelly but they are OK if they don't run aviation businesses. outside enzed. Nev

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Good at warbirds though.

 

 

[storchy neil]

so the salvos claim that cold is killing 1 in 15 is a lie the price of green power would not b a contributing factor in that neil

 

 

[facthunter]

You have me there Neil. I don't know how to reply to that. Nev

 

 

[octave]

so the salvos claim that cold is killing 1 in 15 is a lie the price of green power would not b a contributing factor in that neil

 

Those figures come from a study in the Lancet which is a peer reviewed, well-respected journal, so yep I would accept that these figures are at least reasonably correct. I am assuming that you accept these figures and the source they came from so perhaps you would be interested in one there other papers

 

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf

 

AIR POLLUTION-RELATED EFFECTS OF COAL AND LIGNITE COMBUSTION IN EUROPE

 

Deaths/Cases per TWh DEATHS SERIOUS ILLNESS MINOR ILLNESS Lignite 32.6 (8.2-130) 298 (74.6-1193) 17,676 (4,419-70,704) Coal 24.5 (6.1-98.0) 225 (56.2-899) 13,288 (3,322-53,150)

 

What percentage of a power bill comes from environment cost spoiler alert it is 8% whilst poles and wires account for 53%

 

AEMC - Price trends

 

Whilst it is unacceptable for peoples lives to be shortened by the increased cost of power (mainly from poles and wire costs) we cannot just ignore the downside of continuing with the old ways of generating energy. Even if we started building coal fired power stations tomorrow we would not lower prices and we would end up behind the rest of the world in terms of modernizing our energy production.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's over 10,000 coal mine deaths per year admitted (and much more in reality) in China and dog knows how many because of the smog in places like Beijing. Check the price for electricity generated by the Critical coal process with sequestration (and that's not PROVEN to work). Highest of any source of energy under consideration. Coal is only cheap where older power stations that have amortised their costs are being used. Low hanging fruit gets picked first.

 

Poorer quality at further distances = higher and rising costs for the future. for coal and gas. More dust and contamination from pollutants other than CO2 Gas...Methane escaping. Much worse greenhouse effect then CO2

 

Renewables falling in cost rapidly and already the cheapest of any NEW possibility. Black lung emerging among miners in Australia. What a disgrace and this is the open cut, not underground.. We have shot ourselves in the foot with flogging the dead horse of COAL. You can't get banks to fund it world wide. (but they wouldn't know much about investments would they?) Australia the CLEVER Country. There's no other place in the world more suitable for Solar and wind. Particularly NW Tasmania for wind, and some parts of Bass strait. Nev

 

 

[octave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upXeTMHUqE

[Old Koreelah]

Awesome, Octave. All over freezing Northern Europe people are adopting solar energy, while here in sunny Oz the dynosaur coal-industry's lackeys are running a resistance movement.

 

We waste so much of the energy we get from burning coal; that technology will help re-use it.