greens are

[willedoo]

QE2, well she's OK & the system works OK. Whats wrong is having half a dozen states & a territory making different laws on everything when there are only 24 million of us. The tyrany of time and distance disappeared umpteen years ago but we persist with the stupid state & federal system. Get rid of the states & get rid of a useless upper house where you can get elected on only 50 direct votes & have the ability to hold the country to ransom. How smart is that? One national government and local authorities would make management of the country far more effective & things might even get done. The upper house is a complete waste of time given the lack of competence of half of its occupants. It achieves nothing by stifling most of the progressive laws. Queenie can stay & her rep who is appointed by the government anyway won't change anything but provides a level of stability that may easily disappear once some populist Pres get the nod & starts the power grab over time.

Sounds a bit like a description of China.

 

For a start, out of the three levels of government, arguably the most incompetent, corrupt and inefficient sector is local government. The only thing that stops them from really running amok is State government oversight and State laws on local government. I can never figure out why people want to get rid of the best sector of our governance.

 

Regarding the Senate. Without the Senate, the lower house party that holds government would normally have a majority in the house of reps. That means that every piece of legislation, ie: every single one, becomes law. If that's the sort of country people want, they're welcome to it, but I don't personally want to live with a virtual dictatorship.

 

The idea might be tempting when your team's in power, but sooner or later those opposite will have the exact same power to bring in any law they like.

 

 

[willedoo]

local authorities are better at managing local interests.

Sorry, Jerry, I almost choked on my beer.

 

Seriously though, there are really good local governments and a lot of really bad ones. I think in this state it's a lot better than 20 or 30 years ago, due to better State government scrutiny of local governments.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

If there was no upper house our reps might take a bit more care about the bills they vote for.

We can only live in hope

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Sorry, Jerry, I almost choked on my beer.

Seriously though, there are really good local governments and a lot of really bad ones. I think in this state it's a lot better than 20 or 30 years ago, due to better State government scrutiny of local governments.

I hope it wasn't on your favourite beer!

 

I think the same can be said about state governments. Let me thinjk.. Flo had lovely pumpkin scones, but Jo? A bit like marmite - you love him or hate him, but he was a little on the corrupt side and that gerrymander - aka electoral rigging - seriously?

 

Kennett - My jury is out on it, but Toll seems to have been a company that came from nowhere to somewhere under his leadership of Victoria - oh and people decided they wanted to use Flemington road rather than pay for the freeway - spend taxpayers money putting up obstruction to make it all but impossible to get to the airport same day (OK - I exaggerate slightly - but only slightly).

 

Good state governments come and go and are replaced with not so good ones that we finally get a chance to vote out. Funny - same with local elections, but few people pay attention to them.

 

Been a long day, but I recall reading a post about having a decent audit function - maybe that can be at the state level looking at local governments. And by local governments for local admin things, do we mean the current state of affairs of say Vic, or maybe qld where there are a lot fewer and they cover bigger ground (as I recall, there is - or was - one council for all of Brissie).

 

I agree - centralisation of power is a bad thing - look at Venezuela - socialist government oppressing people - antithesis of what socialism is about.. but the senate and, ahem, the head of state (ol' Betty and her local delegate) - sort of act as a check on that... So - no probs, eh?

 

Also - just because the US also has a federated state system - doesn't mean the state system is protecting them from the like of Trump/Nixon/et al.. it is congress and the senate. I believe it was republican senator John McCain that shot don the latest attempt to repeal the Affordable Medical Insurance Act (Obamocare).

 

If someone can give me a good reason why primary/secondary education, criminal law, road law, funding mix (inc subsidising sparsely populated areas), planning, etc shoudl be diofferent between the states - well I am all open ears.. seriously...

 

Local boundaries can be drawn on population, geographic and other dimensions other than size. State boundaries just seem arbitrary.. Vic has sub-tropical rainforests, temparate areas and deserts as an example.. So do most other southern states (or part thereof), the difference being it goes from sub-tropical to tropical the further oop north you go..

 

 

[kgwilson]

Well we have 3 levels of government and there are unacceptably high levels of corruption in all of them. We currently sit at no 13 on the Corruption Perceptions Index that measures corruption, behind the UK & a number of other European countries plus Canada & Singapore. The USA is down at No 18. No surprises there. NZ has 2 levels of government and is 1st equal with Denmark as the least corrupt nations on the planet. What does that say about the checks and balances of a 3 tier government?

 

 

[Bruce]

How can you possibly have non-corrupt government when the politicians are all sponsored? Here we are rushing towards disaster because business interests want immediate high population growth.

 

 

[facthunter]

The number of tiers of government is not the criteria for guaranteeing lack of corruption,) but it's still a good idea to have the structure). It's things like a Bill of Rights which WE don't have. Where any government doesn't abide by the separation of powers between State the Judiciary and the Church, you get the deterioration of the situation as we have experienced here. As Transparency and accountability diminish so does your individual rights, freedoms, privacy and what we take for granted access to redress by an affordable , effective legal process diminish.

 

LOCAL GOVERNMENT is the most failed of the three. In most audits they perform the worst. That seems to be unchecked vested interest and the tieing of the CEO's (and others) remuneration to rate income.The CEO gets too powerful. He/ she's only hired to work for US after all, but it seems the only way to get them out is by a very expensive Golden Parachute, unless they commit a heinous crime. Those Councillors hooked to developers are to be kept out too. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Not only do we not have a "bill of rights",

 

But we Lose the "magna-carta" & have no civil liberties at all.

 

Also we have no safeguard (aka Fiji revolution/uprising) , to stop immigrants taking over the voting system by sheer numbers (rigging)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

Well, as ironic as it sounds, Sam Dastyari has the right idea - stop ALL political donations. If we want pollies to represent us the people, then we should be paying for elections (through taxes). If we let other vested interests pay for them, then those vested interests will be represented more than us.

 

And yes, before anyone accuses me of being a leftie greenie loonie, I am talking about ALL political donations - including unions, activist groups, environment groups. Anyone.

 

(I'm also not blind to the fact that Dastyari was caught with his own hand in the cookie jar, and was also at odds with his own party over policy regarding China - caused no doubt by lucre originating in that country. But despite the inappropriateness of the messenger, the message is good.)

 

Maybe if the pollies weren't spending half their time schmoozing their donors, there'd be less opportunity for corrupt behaviour and better policy for the general population.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

George Souris worked hard serving our electorate for decades. Even when he was Finance Minister (responsible for raising $20b+ per year) he drove himself all over his electorate, which is bigger than many European nations. He never failed to attend every tedious public function and always remembered my name.

 

Even though he knew he'd never get my vote (because of the policies of his party) he always went out of his way to help me. I'd rank those like George far above a lot of dodgy "financial specialists" and lobbyists.

 

 

[nomadpete]

It seems to me that Australia has remained relatively stable solely because of our greatest collective flaw: our apathy.

 

We are just too lazy to have a half decent revolution.

 

But

 

if we ever get any serious political activism happening, I truly fear where we will end up without a bill of rights or better Constitution.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It seems to me that Australia has remained relatively stable solely because of our greatest collective flaw: our apathy.We are just too lazy to have a half decent revolution...

My wife likes to quote that book title: "A Marriage Made in Heaven- or too tired for an Affair".

 

But

 

if we ever get any serious political activism happening, I truly fear where we will end up without a bill of rights or better Constitution.

Get Up is currently running a campaign for Oz to finally draw up a Bill of Rights which would list and limit our rights. One school of thought is that the Westminster system allows us undefined, wide-ranging rights that have not been limited.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I wasn't aware that the Westminster System protected rights of individuals. Can anyone shed light on this?

 

From time to time the 'bill of rights' concept has popped up - even to the point of a 1970 campaign proposing what it should cover. Being a legal illiterate, I don't understand both sides of the issue (now I'm not sure there is an issue!)

 

 

[Marty_d]

The problem is that most of the population (myself included) don't actually know what rights we have. A recent survey apparently discovered that 67% of respondents thought we had the 5th Amendment here (the right to refuse to testify to avoid self incrimination). Too much Law & Order I guess...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Marty they're probably the same Australians who dial 911 in an emergency. (For overseas forumites, the emergency number to dial in Australia has always been 000, or 112 if you are using a mobile.) American TV shows have so distorted our culture that the authorities have had to install a diversion to 000 for those dunderheads who dial 911.

 

 

[kgwilson]

If we had a bill of rights they'd complain that we need a bill of lefts as well

 

 

[facthunter]

The best Pollies MONEY can BUY is not good for YOU. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

We had a referendum on becoming free people or remaining subjects and we chose to remain subjects.

 

At the time, so bad was the pro-republic campaign, I couldn't decide whether Turnbull was deliberately sabotaging the campaign or if he was street-dumb.

 

I still don't know...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Street dumb? Interesting term, Bruce. (The English language seems to gain dozens of new words each year.)

 

Lots of politicians seem to be street smart. Hawk sure cultivated that image. The many appearances on Q&A by

 

Rudd and Turnbull must have helped them. Last night I watched the impressive Justin Trudeau interacting with a studio audience. I'll swallow a lemon and even admit that Trump seems street smart; he knows how to appeal to a particular audience.

 

You might be right about Turnbull. I had great hopes that he'd bring some sanity and balance to the Libs, but it looks like he may not have the ticker to challenge the crazy right wing.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not hard to notice Mal is not comfortable "out there" in ordinary suburbia with your average Joe Or Myra. The last over-long campaign saw Bill enjoying it more and Malcolm uncomfortable and not putting in the hours. Had it gone for another week the outcome could have gone the other way. That's how close it was. If you have a spare coupla hundred Million and can chip in 1.74 mill to help the Party funds you are not on the same planet as some bloke who DID work at Ford or GM or Toyota and lost their jobs, or even Sydney's Western Suburbs. The average person who becomes unemployed will probably have their house on the market within 6 months without any option. You won't get much sympathy from the Banks whose Directors make the highest salary packages in the land, either. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The more I read about how bankers and financiers have enriched themselves and corrupted the economy,

 

the higher used car salesmen rise in my estimation.

 

 

[facthunter]

They aren't called Banksters for nothing. Why make money when TAKING money is so easy?. I reckon they cost this country over 100 billion per year. It's not just the declared profit you must count. They also have running costs, most of which are not essential to the big scheme of things at all.. Example having giant Buildings on the most expensive land in the country. Their central offices could be anywhere. Cooke islands, Lichtenstein Dubbo... Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Their central offices could be anywhere. Cooke islands, Lichtenstein Dubbo... Nev

Most banks don't believe in having employees or branches for customers anymore. It's getting harder to phone a human for assistance. They know that the rapid adoption of block chain technology and crypto currency means they are likely to be out of business within a decade.

 

 

[facthunter]

They deserve to be shunned. They have behaved abominably. There's evidence everywhere of bad practices that are not in the interests of the CUSTOMERS. The investors after the top staff are all that matters. to banks. The customers are what they feed on. Get the kids hooked on debt at a young age. Years ago it was to save in the little bank with the slot in the top. Now its' Mr CRED with the school getting a bribe for each account opened. $10,000 dollar credit cards for pensioners that have no means of paying it off if they run to that limit. Foreclose on farms and sell them at a profit. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Incredible how they're still fighting tooth & nail to avoid a Royal Commission. If they didn't want to look suspicious, you'd think they'd throw their arms wide and say "Bring it on!"

 

W... er, Bankers.