new conservatives vic party

[facthunter]

The thing is when you break every promise as the Abot has, you just can't believe ANYTHING HE says. HE doesn't seem to get that. His CONTROLLER Credlin says he's no good without her wired into his ear, and he's a destroyer who it appears would bring the party to it's knees, as he's doing now, if he gets to control it, afterwards.. ( Keep the wreck). These days everything you say and do is on file and comes back to haunt you.

 

Front page praising/ condemning must have an effect, so they suck up to Murky, or pay for the omission dearly. Fortunately that's not guaranteed to work as well as it has in the past. The combative and plain stupid way they carry on in Question time making it a full time election platform ( NEVER answering the question) demeans the whole process and turns people off. (What else would you expect) They must believe WE are stupid. That's the insulting bit. Individual people there are OK. It's the stupid antics they get drawn into by the Party "controllers" who plan the pantomime and campaigning tactics. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

I believe that credlin is a very astute person the liberals that got shoved out at the last election were not paying attension to their electrolate you cant just blame abbot the blame lays with the sales men and woman

 

your footy teams losing so you sack the couch how about sacking the team and start again

 

its a bit like the bloke that worked for me many years ago said I was an idiot didn't know what I was doing bought a truck off his own lost his house lost his truck lost his wife and kids

 

Individual people there are OK yes nev but you need a team

 

why do people assume that so called educated money hungry people are good leaders they in my opinion have and do not listen to the working class as you said nev we are stupid to them

 

look at benardie one nation both are gathering a following benardie got out off the libs would not bend to turnbull crap Dutton just got bought by turnbull bishop not worth a vote back stabbing pyne neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes, but Bernardi and Pauline Hanson are rabidly insane. All very well saying the "so called educated money hungry people" are not good leaders, but I don't know why you think uneducated anti-science money hungry people would be any better?

 

Actually you must think Bob Brown was the best politician ever, the man has principles, wasn't money hungry (gave much of his salary away) and yet still educated... winner!

 

 

[storchy neil]

bob brown best for cost Tassie hydro power from the franklin cost jobs I was there greens cost jobs where have the greens made a contribution to the work force of Australia and don't say solar power cause not 10 % is is made in aust no they import from china france tiwan neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

bob brown best for cost Tassie hydro power from the franklin cost jobs I was there greens cost jobs where have the greens made a contribution to the work force of Australia and don't say solar power cause not 10 % is is made in aust no they import from china france tiwan neil

Making jobs is not the only thing a government is responsible for. The protection and security of the citizens is the primary responsibility.

 

The scientific FACTS around climate change (as opposed to what Malcolm Roberts thinks) say that a rise of more than 2 degrees is going to cause all sorts of negative impacts in all areas of life.

 

There's a deadlock in federal government on this issue, caused mainly by your conservative mates, who have convinced themselves that the science isn't real.

 

The Greens may never produce a single job (although if you read their policies, they actually would - just not in areas like coal mining) - but at least they understand what's important. Every government on Earth should be concentrating on protecting their citizens, by mitigating the effects of climate change.

 

Yes solar panels are made in China, France, Taiwan, Germany, a host of other countries. Whose fault is that? Australia had the opportunity to be leading the world in this regard, but because it didn't involve fossil fuels, our short-sighted governments fumbled the ball.

 

 

[storchy neil]

oh shheeeet I for got Germany

 

fancy having to import our electricity bit like that battery for south aust so far fetched 400 acres off battery well done 99 what is the cost of cleaning up after use by date neil

 

 

[facthunter]

A lot less than nuclear. Chernoble will never be cleaned up. Batteries are not in the same league as . You would re use the material. The trace metals and other really bad stuff(other than CO2) and the black lung disease in miners now, Dust all over the countryside is another side of the "clean" coal misinformation. Look up the cost of generating by that method. The Highest of all sources.

 

What is the reason all that stuff is not made here Neil? Coal money and influence affecting LieNP direction and policy . This is where WE lose big time. Still subsidising COAL. No global warming? Tell me one place the glaciers are growing , not receding rapidly and IF Qld gets the weather it has for the last 3 years no one will live there. Hardly any repair after Cyclone Debby, and you can't just keep on fixing stuff back to the design it was before it got destroyed, to just get destroyed again. Not weather change? Read different newspapers or get your info from sources that tell the truth...Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I reckon nuclear is the way to go. Chernoble was a dangerous antique. The Japanese built a reactor on a tsunami coast.

 

Even run by Russians, hybrid fusion/fission would be safe from these risks and the radioactive waste would be less than the stuff they take out of Roxby.

 

So in my book it is the greens and the left of labor who will be responsible for the global warming to come.

 

And another thing... the cheapest way to remove CO2 from the air is to pay farmers to make charcoal for burial. I see zero support for this from the greens.

 

 

[facthunter]

Charcoal is great for the soil. Think it was used by the Indians in South America. Australia hasn't got much fertile topsoil and we are destroying a lot of aquifers. We put subdivisions on some of the best soil areas, that used to be market gardens. Clever Country? BS.

 

Bruce, I was for nuclear but don't think it works cost wise as well as safety, which has improved a lot in newer designs. Corporate structures make shareholder returns paramount so safety erodes without oversight from an authority that can't be bought. The process also ADDS net heat to the system. Solar tidal wind etc do not. That energy is there anyhow. I'd like to see less dependency on GRID. It's always going to be capable of failure and helps the big guys make money . er sorry TAKE money when It's a monopoly. Corporate monopoly equals rip off . Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

To once again make the analogy: a century ago people bought ice produced in a central facility to put in their home ice chest. Few people then could imagine that eventually every home, business and motor vehicle would have its own efficient, reliable refrigerator unit. The same now applies to electrical energy. It can be produced locally from lots of sources, and the cost of storage is rapidly reducing.

 

How many developing nations today would set up a national grid when self-contained power systems are becoming so affordable?

 

 

[facthunter]

Depends whether the facility is set up to help the people or make profit for the developers. Grid = control by rentseekers. They don't do it out of the goodness of their heart. That's why I don't believe these monopoly structures should be privatised. There should be a clear indication that there is a cost advantage to the consumer before any of this infrastructure is ever sold off.. Most times a set dividend is demanded of a government owned utility anyhow , so that offsets the capital outlay and governments can borrow money cheaper than just about any other entities and if experts find something must be modified or replaced they have the figures and the responsibility of doing it.

 

If it's owned by a foreign group of investors, unless conditions have been carefully written into the agreement, they will tell you to visit a taxidermist, or cough up the cost yourself. The people have then lost control of an essential facility, which is fairly much the situation we have here now. I seriously question whether we need a grid that goes from Cairns to Port Lincoln. High total output power sources need to have a large enough market to ensure the supply (output) is utilised. If it's not sitting about at a constant near max , the critical coal power station is not efficient nor is any gas or diesel working well below rated max output. 30 cents (diesel best)/ Kw Hr at 80% of max rated, can easily become 90 cents/ Kw/hr if the output drops to say 30% of max, or for that matter goes to max power 99 % and sits there. 80% is the magic figure, so the experts say but there is a cost just to get it up to speed or for that matter have it ready for use, on call. With batteries you just flick a switch,( if they are charged). Almost the same with hydro, (if there's any water left there). Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

That's why such essential services as water, sewerage, electricity should always be run by a government organisation, not by profit focussed private Enterprise.

 

These should be operated as a service to the public. And it is not possible to lower operating costs by creating the illusion of competition through multiple suppliers. We don't consider running multiple highways side by side in competition with each other, neither should multiple separate water mains, phone networks, or power grids be built. It must be costing us more in the long run to pay for multiple duplicated CEO's, offices, staff, etc.

 

There should be transarency and oversight in the arrangements to keep them on their toes.

 

I've seen as much (sometimes more) corruption and inefficiency in private enterprises, than existed in their government run predecessors.

 

The inefficiency created by corporate greed undoes any advantages that privatisation might bring.

 

 

[Yenn]

It seems from all this that nobody likes government. I really can't understand why. They are telling us all that we are doing it hard and what is more we seem to be believing them. The latest is the sky rocketing cost of electricity. Government is telling us this is happening, polliticians are saying it is happening. What I can't understand is that when I looked at a 2013 bill this morning I see there were two prices. Beginning of the billing period was 21 pluc cents per kWh, end price was 26 plus cents. My latest bill shows 24 plus cents. Does this look like skyrocketing price increases to you?

 

It is easy to believe what pollies and those who want to influence us are saying, especially if there is someone to blame, but we need to read between the lines and also check the truth of their statements.

 

 

[Bruce]

Yenn, 5 cents in 24 is 20 cents in 96 or a bit more than 20 percent.

 

Inflation is supposed to be about 3 percent i think.

 

So yes electricity is soaring in comparison to the CPI .

 

 

[storchy neil]

yen what was the supply charge for your bill in 2013 compared to 2017 mine was in 2009 $46.78 2017 $126.25 neil

 

 

[Bruce]

Of all the nasty charges, the "supply" charge is the worst. How weak of the pollies to allow it at all.

 

It directly impacts upon people who try to do the right thing and draw less from the grid.

 

Just like bank exit fees, it is so nasty and unjust it should be outlawed.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you accept user pays, it's justified. You pay more to rent oxy bottles than your supply charge, so lets get real. A few hundred dollars to MAINTAIN a supply to your property is not excessive. Better value than many other things we willingly pay. The whole thing is POLITICISED.. The LNP worship coal because they get money from the "subsidised" COAL industry. YOU don't matter. They say the price of electricity has doubled or tripled when some of the costs other than the ACTUAL power you use has gone up. The ACTUAL power cost is just over 1/4 of your power bill . IF they start building NEW Coal Power stations at 2 billion each and years to construct, you will really see cost increases. All this information is available but not in the Murdoch Papers. .Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

When I go to the shop, I don't expect to pay for the cost of maintaining the shop, I expect that to be part of the price for the goods.

 

Allowing power companies to charge even people who use nearly nothing an exorbitant "supply charge" stinks.

 

In SA, they encouraged people to plumb in rainwater tanks. Some of them seriously reduced their mains water usage, but they pay the same bills as before because the next increase was in the supply charge.

 

AND we got our rates notice today... $1700 for a modest place in an unfashionable suburb but we are proud to have the highest-paid council CEO in the state.

 

 

[facthunter]

It costs them to maintain the system if you choose to stay on it. I'm for solar etc but as more do it there's less paying for the "system". I (rightly, I think) regard it as a service, although we have lost control of it and the related costs. THAT was predictable but in the rush to privatise and have "choice" (Of the name on the top of the bill) was a con. There's ONE system so where's the choice? It was overcapitalised in some places and undermaintained in others. For a (relatively) small number of users we have a lot of costly infrastructure especially in remote areas where there must be a lot of cross subsidy (I would think) as the remote areas could never pay the actual cost with losses of efficiency, extra poles and wires and sub stations etc. It's over 40% of the total bill amount and one way or another must be paid . I don't think the analogy with the "shop" stands well.. The shop charges an amount to cover it's operating costs Rates ,Transport etc or goes broke. The "monopoly" grid must be reliable.. (unless you are not on it then it's everyone else's problem).

 

This can be sorted out, but it's heavily politicised with the main emphasis being on who gets the blame /credit and winning/stealing the next election. The facts and figures are available to all who are truly interested in this problem which must be done properly or we really waste money LOTS of it. Electricity is easy compared with Transport. Fossil fuels are unlikely to ever be cheaper than they are now, but the issues of burning them must be addressed. Talk of people dying because of electricity prices.( Craig Kelly) People are dying of black lung and other causes near mines where the water leeching out of the dynamited earth is being used to dampen the dust, (as you would) and it's got dreadful pollutants in it ( because coal is formed in sediments,) and is now being transported by the dust to properties near the mines. (Hunter Valley). Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

That was the difference. The supply charge. I don't think there was one in 2013, but now it is nearly a dollar per day.

 

The thing is that the cost per kW has not increased much, but the rip off is elsewhere.

 

 

[facthunter]

It implies a COST to be connected (which does have an identifiable basis in fact as providing and maintaining the network is twice as costly as the electricity you use) then you pay for what you use. These "suppliers" are not unaware of where this is heading. The more the price increases the more people will leave and do their own thing. Their situation is critical and they play a necessary role although no one has any sympathy for them.. The real blame should go to the Federal government for showing NO leadership in a rapidly changing environment, forcing the states to go it alone, and playing games for political ends. Uncertainty means the required PLANNED investment has not taken place because it's over a long period that any profit is made, not a 3 year political cycle. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

What about people who disconnect? At the farm, we have no water or sewage connections and we are way better off without paying the inflated prices and "supply" charges. Of course they get our money with inflated council rates. It would be great to be able to opt out of the council and agree that no council services are to be provided.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Nev,

 

You have touched on a sore point. The whole Fed /vs State governing issue! Sad two say that the Hansen mob have tainted a positive national concept on this score.

 

Australia should be one nation. But is behaving more like seven separate countries, with separate laws and unbelievably with extradition arrangements between states.(just to mention a few)

 

The sooner we tackle proper constitution reform the better. Either get rid of the Feds and admit we are NOT one nation, or get rid of the states, and become one nation. The duplication of just about every administrative activity is crippling us. So is the fragmentation of infrastructure

 

 

[nomadpete]

The wholesale cost per Mw of generated electricity has roughly doubled in the past ten years. But there is no point in looking only at generation cost. When you pay a power bill you are automatically participating in a generation - transmission - distribution system. No single part of it is the whole story. To compare grid power with DIY, you only have to look at the long term amortisation of your DIY system, reduce it to $/kWh, and compare the number with your last bill.

 

The only fly in the ointment is you won't know how much extra to allow for unexpected (possibly major) failures in your DIY setup.

 

 

[Bruce]

There is actually a lot less duplication than there used to be. The feds have taken over lots and generally shafted the states.

 

Parafield airport is an example... the feds sold most of the land and rode roughshod over council zoning laws.

 

We can only dream of having the same level of services that Canberra has because they spend on themselves first.

 

But in SA, most government expenditure happens within walking distance of parliament house, so we are no better ourselves.