the postal vote/survey/plebisite

[octave]

In post 182 I said: If getting "married" makes them happy, then so be it, and I don't care what they do. I'm not denying them anything. As kgwilson said, it's wasting far too much time, money, and this thread. I hope it's worth it. We have devastating hurricanes in the US and West Indies, earthquake in Mexico, genocide in Myanmar, not to mention North Korea, and we are rabbiting on about this.

I agree we are spending a lot of time and money on this but remember it is not the gay community that insisted on a plebiscite they would rather the pollies just vote on it and get it done as has happened in many other countries

 

 

[Marty_d]

Good point Peter.

 

The government should immediately announce that they've decided to cancel the postal survey and give the $122 million to those countries devastated by cyclones and earthquakes. Then they could just have a free vote in the parliament and the whole issue would be over.

 

I wonder who wouldn't support that? Labor, the cross-benchers and half the government would, so why don't they do it?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think we shoudl give Turn-bull-sh!! a break... With a majority of 1, if he allowed a free vote and the LNP fellas felt a little short-changed, his majority would slip very quickly. I think this is the only way he sees he can get it across the line and maintain the LP's fingernail hold on power... If it went to a free vote and won, he may suddenly lose the support of the LNP on other key agenda items, if not supply itself.

 

Whether you think that is a good thing or not depends on yur personal politics. He is darned if he does and darned if he doesn't.

 

BTW, the UK has had SSM since 2013. A bloke at work got married that way.. didn't even know he was gay (but I am arguably more ignorant than most at these sorts of matters). His husband (or wife, or just partner - what do you call them??) had been a house-person for about 10 years apparently. They have a child who so far seems "normal". Point is, you won't always know who they are by the way they talk/walk.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think I agree with your sentiment thought, Red. In Richmond (SW London/Surrey), the Richmond Theatre annually puts on the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I have actually never seen it myself, but it certainly attracts gregarious and expressive characters from the LGBT community. Some very interesting sights, indeed. I am personally OK with it.. it is for an occasion where they express themselves much like me wearing my favoutite team's footy jumper to a footy game (well, acutally I don't - but I did once wear a top with a small emblem of theirs on). But I see no need for such expressions to over-emphasise it on a day to day basis.. Just be nornmal because, in reality, hardly anyone cares. Of course, you could argue it is simply a it more outrageous (ina good sense, not derogatory) akin to punks or mods or any of the others... So, I suppose, I am not so against it, just don't personally see the need for it.

 

 

[old man emu]

Geoff,

 

Did you gain a son or another daughter?

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think we shoudl give Turn-bull-sh!! a break... With a majority of 1, if he allowed a free vote and the LNP fellas felt a little short-changed, his majority would slip very quickly. I think this is the only way he sees he can get it across the line and maintain the LP's fingernail hold on power...

That's exactly right. It's about politics, it always has been about politics.

 

Actually I reckon this term of LNP government has been revealing. There's a fair bit of stress between the moderates, who are "liberal" in the sense that they believe in small government, staying out of people's way, the free market etc - and the raving conservative god-botherers who are in reality socially very IL-liberal. Not to mention the NP part of it which I guess at least gives some comic relief.

 

And if KRudd was a stealthy, knife-wielding assassin waiting for the chance to plant the blade between Gillard's narrow shoulders, then Abbott is a

 

sulky schoolboy who's been ejected from the classroom and is breaking all the school windows in a fit of pique.

 

Turnbull is like the Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke (yes yes, I know, in this context it should be a Dutch woman) - his moderate and socially progressive personal leanings have been entirely subsumed by the need to keep the whole thing from exploding.

 

The only good thing about this is that all Labor have to do is look pretty cohesive and don't do anything overly stupid, and they'll romp in next election. Just hope the Greens get some more seats too so that climate change doesn't slip off the agenda completely in the mad rush to contain power prices.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Eeew.. that's a vision I didn't want...

 

Oh" Right... you're talking ideologically

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

That's exactly right. It's about politics, it always has been about politics.

Actually I reckon this term of LNP government has been revealing. There's a fair bit of stress between the moderates, who are "liberal" in the sense that they believe in small government, staying out of people's way, the free market etc - and the raving conservative god-botherers who are in reality socially very IL-liberal. Not to mention the NP part of it which I guess at least gives some comic relief.

 

And if KRudd was a stealthy, knife-wielding assassin waiting for the chance to plant the blade between Gillard's narrow shoulders, then Abbott is a

 

sulky schoolboy who's been ejected from the classroom and is breaking all the school windows in a fit of pique.

 

Turnbull is like the Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke (yes yes, I know, in this context it should be a Dutch woman) - his moderate and socially progressive personal leanings have been entirely subsumed by the need to keep the whole thing from exploding.

 

The only good thing about this is that all Labor have to do is look pretty cohesive and don't do anything overly stupid, and they'll romp in next election. Just hope the Greens get some more seats too so that climate change doesn't slip off the agenda completely in the mad rush to contain power prices.

Maybe I should have been a little more explicit - I think he is showing leadership in this case - pushing through something that he thinks is the right thing to do and finding a mechanism to force those within his wider flock to fall into line. Of course, if the majority of the LNP's constituents vote no, then he is very much in a rock and a hard place. (Assumed) majority vote yes, few hicks vote no, LNP dig their heels in, Labour in at next election

 

 

[storchy neil]

Talking of labour labour now tinkering with a coal fired power station oh dear we're is greens now cat amongst the pidgeons Neil

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Maybe "usually" in my post 184 was a bit extreme. Yes, some go to great lengths to conceal it. Maybe "quite often" may have been a better term. Some, though, wear it like a sign around their neck. It's harder to pick with the females.

Er... Red.. Don't concede just yet: Computer program can tell if someone is gay from a photo with 91% accuracy

 

 

[Marty_d]

Er... Red.. Don't concede just yet: Computer program can tell if someone is gay from a photo with 91% accuracy

Depends on the photo, doesn't it? If it's of 2 people with no clothes on, I can tell with 100% accuracy if they're gay or not!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Mixing two threads here, but I heard today, the Greens described as being like a watermelon - green on the outside and red in the middle.

Well it's a bit funny at the moment isn't it... with the LNP's mad scramble to blame big power companies, regulate gas, and of course their conservative member's attempts to prevent the individual from marrying who they please - they're looking more "red" than Labor & Greens.

 

 

[hihosland]

Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber.

 

~Plato,

 

 

[facthunter]

Why do they feel so threatened by the greens? Farmers whose properties are being destroyed by CSG and open cut mines etc are in furious agreement with them. Perhaps there's a big disconnect between farmers and their "traditional" owners er.. Party. Outside of QLD ( remember the Party of Jo, and the Fitzgerald enquiry), it hardly exists.. Water and good soil being looked after. What a good idea. Water was always predicted to be potentially worth more than oil. It's really happened, but some don't know it yet. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

Gee jerry I better not put photo off me on me computer cause it will sue me for being racist or homophobic or sometim Neil

 

Hey nev on jo at least he fixed that beef road in QLD ?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Why do they feel so threatened by the greens? Farmers whose properties are being destroyed by CSG and open cut mines etc are in furious agreement with them. Perhaps there's a big disconnect between farmers and their "traditional" owners er.. Party. Outside of QLD ( remember the Party of Jo, and the Fitzgerald enquiry), it hardly exists.. Water and good soil being looked after. What a good idea. Water was always predicted to be potentially worth more than oil. It's really happened, but some don't know it yet. Nev

The battle over water is well under way, with big irrigators having the ear if the Nationals.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Storchy

 

"jo at least he fixed that beef road in QLD ?"

 

All I remember of the PEANUT farmer is.

 

A family with four children have to walk on either side of the road, as more than four constitutes an illegal activity.

 

I would have gone to live in Queensland except for that ridiculous law.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

Last night we were talking about this with our kids, just to see if they'd heard anything about it at school or on the radio. My 9yo son asked what it was about, and I told him - "At the moment only a man and a woman can get married - but some men fall in love with men, and some women fall in love with women. So the vote is to ask people whether they should be able to get married too."

 

He asked me if I was going to vote yes or no, and I said "Yes".

 

He thinks about this for a minute and says "I think if I was able to vote, I'd vote yes too. It only seems fair."

 

No judgement about men falling in love with men or women falling in love with women. Just the fairness of them being able to do what other people can.

 

I thought that said it all, really.

 

 

[facthunter]

Kids are great. They seem to have a feel for injustice and unfairness. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

OK, stealing the water the taxpayers bought back is not OK. (but that's gone pretty quiet). The NP conference just voted to cut any funding for renewables. Silly old Boswell. Back with the Dinasaurs. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

How come the Government can make a decision to send other Australians into danger (Afghanistan, Iraq, Philipines etc, etc ad nauseum) without having to make a song and dance of getting the opinions of the electorate, but has to go to extraordinary lengths and financial expense to remove three words that it inserted in an Act without prior consultation with the electorate?

 

 

[Marty_d]

How come the Government can make a decision to send other Australians into danger (Afghanistan, Iraq, Philipines etc, etc ad nauseum) without having to make a song and dance of getting the opinions of the electorate, but has to go to extraordinary lengths and financial expense to remove three words that it inserted in an Act without prior consultation with the electorate?

Because the sacrifice and maiming of generations of soldiers in foreign wars is absolutely fine with conservatives. The thought of people being able to marry who they want to is not.

 

 

[Yenn]

Does the government make the decision to send Australians into danger. It looks to me that it is only the PM who does that. When was going to war ever debated in parliament?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I can't get through the Australian paywall, but a quick glance of the Canadian law would indicate it is when their children come home and and believe their identity is crossed and my guess is if the parents said no and tried to "correct" their thinking, then the last resort would be re-placement (note, haven't had time to read the law or the whole articles). Whether you think this is progressive law making at it's best or PC gone absolutely mad and are planning a revolution to bring back the dark ages is neither here not there. However, to put it into context, the amount of pressure, potential ridicule, ostrascisation (sp), peer pressure, parental and family pressure that exists, one would have to a) be of very strong character and b) pretty darned certain that was the path for them; so in denying them their disposition, is it analogous to saying to a biy they are a girl and vice versa?

 

It is a difficult and vexing question... I have no idea how I would react if one of the little-uns came home and said that to me and wanted to express themselves in public that way. I would definitely admire their bravery - do I have the same level of bravery?

 

I would hope that anything as draconian as removing children would happen after attempted education and only if the child is physically or mentally at threat from abuse.