green power solar is

[Bruce]

My grandparents didn't have a tap inside the house. They cooked on kero burners and had a weekly visit from the iceman for their cold chest.

 

I never thought of them as poor and I don't think they considered themselves as poor.

 

They had wonderful sing-songs around the piano instead of television.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes I was forced to learn the Piano. It's my excuse for being weird. Child abuse. I had to light the COPPER every Monday morning as well.. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I was the scrawny one, I got the job,s bigger kids couldn't or wouldn't do, likt sitting in the hole digging out the ash from the fire.

 

When older was offered ajob welding the inside piping for the oil rigs.

 

I was in the correct BMI range for my hight 5'10", 7 stone wet weight, little kids kicked sand in my face then.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

So the other day 91 top scientists from the IPCC released the modelling of what will happen if we don't keep global warming to +1.5 degrees or less. Serious consequences for the world and Australia. We can already see the increasing frequency of droughts, longer bushfire seasons, extreme weather events. It's only going to get worse, and if you're worried about boat people now, they're a drop in the ocean compared to what we'll get when Pacific islands start disappearing.

 

What was the Australian government's response? The deputy prime minister dismissed it. The Environment minister, who herself has strong links to mining, dismissed it.

 

Do we seriously still keep these idiots in office? Please, whatever you do next election - vote someone in who understands science and the urgent need for action.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Marty_d, I couldn't agree with you more... The reality is, though, between the major parties, neither will bring about the change required and they are symbiotically attached to economic growth as the saviour of the problems that face the human race and are self-serving trough feeders. That leaves the Greens (can we trust the Democrats?).

 

As I mentioned in the Political Humour thread, this is a global problem that needs a coordinated global solution (as do many other things). Unfortunately, as a species, we are tribal and territorial, so I only see that we will eventually wipe ourselves (and most of everything else) out and the earth will be given time to recover and start afresh... Because the existential threat won't be realised by our psyche until it is too late.

 

[edit] It may seem a negative outlook, but there's a lot of inertia to change... However, when someone comes along with the intention to fixe things globally or at least lead by example in an almost uncompromising way, I'll vote for them [/edit]

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think it's worse in Australia because we really have no excuse. We have more sunshine than pretty much anywhere else, with lots of land to put solar farms on. We have countless areas along our coastlines that would suit pumped hydro. We even have businesses crying out for regulatory certitude so they can start investing in renewable energy. We have a world-leading scientific organisation. We even have a population who, by and large, accept the reality of climate change and are looking for leadership.

 

Unfortunately we also have a small but vocal conservative rump who are heavily influenced by the fossil fuel industries, and a weak-willed government who listen to right-wing shock-jocks even though they represent a tiny audience.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I don't think it is worse in Australia. Many countriues have splendid sunshine and conditions ripe for various different types of renewables. However, even China, with its green credentials at home, buils coal-fired powerstations for its "friends".

 

BTW, it is October 12 at about [edit] 123:30pm in London. Normally, my voice has gone up an octave or two at this time of year. The temperature outside - 21 celcius... Time to start worrying...

 

 

[Bruce]

Australia could be the Nigeria of uranium too. Not the Saudi Arabia of uranium, because unlike the arabs, we are too silly to nationalize the industry.

 

And our abundant sunshine should be a warning that we are too close to the equator to escape the worst of global warming.

 

28 here today Jerry, 21 sounds good for London. Do you lot also elect extreme religious types to parliament? Here we have the examples of Rudd, Abbott and now Morrison. And a lot more I suspect, after all they keep it quiet.

 

 

[facthunter]

A few members of the Coalition have stated "THEY are incapable of dealing with this matter because it just cannot be handled by the various factions in their ranks. Trent Zimmerman notably . He also said "someone else will have to do it" Remarkably candid and appropriate comment for which I congratulate him. . Not all pollies are dead set idiots on the take but unfortunately enough are, in our present Parliament to put is in this ridiculous and inevitably very COSTLY situation.. Wentworth will be interesting (I Hope).. LNP deserve to lose that one. How could they NOT expect to? Carrying on like a mob on a lynching exercise.. They couldn't even count.. Rule #1 in Politics. First have the NUMBERS. #2 think of the consequences. #3 have a plan "B". They are only there because" People" vote for them. Were they "thinking" of how the voters would view all this? The short answer is NO and THAT shows how obsessed they are with themselves and not the real world.. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

Bruce the biggest effect will be at the poles and the other sources of melting ice .The Third pole. High mountains near the equator that provide melting snow water reliably (up till now) to feed about 1/3rd of the world.. Other low lying fertile areas will be lost as will as low islands. You think you got immigration problems NOW? Baby you ain't seen nothin as well as food shortages and Disease superbugs ebola Flu you can't cure etc

 

The deniers say what's a few degrees . A couple of warm days...Just turn the aircond on. well a few degrees is tropical storms that are extreme because of all the additional energy in cloud water as we;; as an ice free North Pole. All the predictions are happening, but you have to have your eyes open and not pretend it's not happening before you even get started.. The longer the delay to act the more cost and mayhem. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Bruce, had to correct my post - it was 23:30, not 13:30 that it was 21 degrees in London. I drove out of London this morning at 5:45 and it was still 19 degrees.. We have 620+ lower house parliamentarians and I suspect a similar amount in the upper house - so I am sure there are a couple of barmy types in there. But the high profile types are not religious zealots - in fact, despite their incompetence and buffoonery, they are generally moderate and accept there are problems. Unfortunately the benefactors keeping their parties afloat and pu significant sums of money into them are not quite so accepting or at least acquiescent that things need to get done at the "cost" of profits or disrupting the apple cart. So they put in distant measures so ambiguous that it means nought now - although admittedly - compared to Australia and America's lack of action, they are very progressive.

 

We have our fair few deniers, too at the political and private level - they are usually reasonably well off and have the most to lose (or at least be most disrupted) by an abrupt change in direction. A parent of children that go to the same school as mine is an exec with a coal miner or broker - and he denies vehemently. He can't argue the science, so he focuses on the meteorological cycle of earth, but ignores the incredible pace and magnitude it is happening now and why; and he also denigrates and accuses those purporting human induced climate change as liars with vested interests. When I pointed out his position may come from vested interests rather than objective assessment of the facts, well, lets just say my kods don't get invited to their place anymore...

 

Unf., the majority of the people with real power and pull the strings of government are of this type...

 

 

[Bruce]

Wow thats a hot night in London Jerry. And as for the deniers, well the situation is similar here but a bit worse. Australia just looks so big on a map that it is easy to think that nothing can harm it and there is room for millions more.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes come and share our desert and drought Your little farm will perhaps come to nowt. Doesn't matter. Our cities are world size and getting bigger. Most live there and consume the best from your place, go figure. so you will feel as though it's much the same. What's in a name.? The crocodiles are controlling our populations with a large % of people committing suicide. as well. Our street beggars are widely dispersed, very musical and cost almost nothing.. It's so natural, you'd think it was meant to be a perfectly designed sort of thing

 

The trappings of wealth are very evident but most of it's owned by the banks to which, if we are honest, we owe many thanks. Without their generosity in lending us more than we can repay, these glorious monuments to consumer excess would not see the light of day.. You can bet on anything here and somebody has to win.. We lead the world with our poker machines and It can get you in.. We have 20% of the whole world's here. and most are owned by churches, so it's not even a sin.... Nev. .

 

 

[Bruce]

Gosh Nev, pokies owned by churches? Sinful, say I.

 

I'm so sick of gambling ads on the TV that I'm going to email my MP and tell him that they are disgusting and what makes it worse is knowing that some of my taxpayers money is going into evil gambling pockets via centerlink due to the fact that they ( Centerlink) pay benefits in cash.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Bruce

 

If centrelink stops paying for the food of the Unemployed & the Unemployable.

 

Will you in a charitable way let them sit at & eat your dinner table?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Almost a classic making of a loaded question by effective labelling of those involved in derogatory terms. IF you had used " of people such as the disadvantaged and disabled" would it have had the same impact? Of course not... I could cover the same issue more fairly by saying "should society allow a situation to exist where people live without food or shelter because of their circumstances? " People who end up in hopeless situations are not always there because of anything they have done or planned... Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Many 'disadvantaged' individuals are there because of circumstances beyond their control, and .many remain disadvantaged because of their lack of applying their desire to overcome disadvantages. Maybe because they give up, maybe because they find they are in a 'comfortable place' psychologically, maybe because taking control of life involves taking risks and they are risk averse - can't deal with the risk of failure.

 

My point being, there are many possible reasons for anybody remaining at the bottom of our food chain. And not all are forced by circumstance to stay there. And endless unquestioning support can actually create harmful dependence (institutionalisation)

 

 

[Bruce]

I get angry at the idea of there being homeless people outside all night in bad weather. I know that some of them are undeserving, but still I demand that the government provide for their basic needs of food and shelter.

 

Where I part company from who I call the bleeding hearts is that I would garnish their welfare money to pay for these things while they stand for the rights of welfare recipients to blow their money on drugs/gambling/alcohol etc so they finish up hungry and homeless.

 

And space, there are 30,000 unemployed in the suburbs around here, so the problem could not be solved by me personally. But if the number were small enough, then yes I would give some direct action a go.

 

 

[nomadpete]

When I was a kid, there were kids coming to school hungry. But their parents were not 'welfare dependent'. Too proud for handouts.

 

When I was 50, I lived in what is euphemistically called a ' high welfare dependant suburb'. The majority were to be seen at the checkouts with trolleys filled with expensive junk food. The streets were filled with expensively hotted up cars. The local grog shops and take aways had cars lined up. Pretty much anyone i spoke to had ways to make the most of the system. They were proud of it. There was excessive 'appearance' spending all around. That is what happens when welfare becomes too easy. The vast majority of the people around me were quite capable of holding 'normal' jobs but they grew up in a system that they understood, and it was normal to 'work the system' which was much easier than taking the risk of working their way up in a real job where there was a risk of rejection if they didn't go along with the rules of employment.

 

Having lived that, my sympathy for 'the disadvantaged' has waned significantly. We all have a lot of control over how we deal with 'disadvantages' that life deals out.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The problem with any system is that someone will find a way around it and use it to their advantage. They know all the rules and how to bend them to get what they need but can't work out (or don't want to) how to do anything that others find worth paying them for. These individuals may be in the minority but are at the forefront of publicity leaving all the genuinely disadvantaged tarred with the same brush. There is no such thing as a Utopian society, someone will always be at the bottom of the societal food chain.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

There are some who are genuinely in need and welfare should be available for them. There are those that fall on hard times and need a leg up -I would expect a lot of the auto-manufacturing workers would fall into that bucket; just handing out the dole is useless for them. And then, there are some who show ingenuity and are able to milk the system.. Apart from them getting something for little more than some brain power and setting themselves up to check all the boxes, imagine how much better the country would be if they turned their talents to productive pursuits!

 

ScoMo came out with some 1/2 baked plan to require those unemployed and able bodied and able to get to jobs that migrants normally take (e.g. seasonal fruit picking) to work or lose the dole. There are more holes in that than swiss cheese and creates a slightly unfair playing field for those closer to the work. It does beckin the question - should some form of national service - part time (more time for those unemployed) be brought in? The service could bemilitary, but also community based, which would give young-uns better exposure to different partsof society and hopefull introduce something that was starting to wane when I was a young-un - respect and emplathy...

 

 

[spacesailor]

I am the very first in my families history. Not to be conscripted !.

 

Some royal decread "the press gang" illegal. so why bring back what decimated the Irish workforce of New York.

 

as well as the English lower class.

 

Some country's use it wisely, south Africa, Switzerland. are two.

 

Australia Will exempt pollie's children, as well as lawyers, doctors,& other high society (Gina, murdock + film star's children to boot)

 

as was done before in other country's.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

My marble was in the lottery to be conscripted for Vietnam but it didn't come up. My father tried to join the RAAF in WW2 but they had learned in WW1 that it wasn't a good idea to take the bloke who operated the town's power station so he wasn't allowed to go.

 

Quite a few mates of mine went to Vietnam and I would not have objected at the time, that's how silly I was.

 

And space, the age of conscription has gone by. It was killed off by high-tech weapons.

 

 

[facthunter]

So rich people don't work the system? They are the most expert of all.. The richest of them, Kerry Packer said paying tax is voluntary for the Rich. and he would know... Everything is tax deductible for the rich Nothing is for the poor . For them, High interest loans (credit cards) Grog, gambling clubs and pokies & drugs Compelling advertising for stuff you don't need. Get it now, pay later,are all there to give hope and comfort when you don't have yachts and beemers, paid for by the company. and a house in the right suburb. to show off.. You end up with a $#!t House in a $#!t suburb where you do what the others do or you don't fit in. Rich people do what the others do too Competing for the biggest D**K prize. Most conspicuous and classless consumer prize . Most face lifted, botox using, mutton in sheeps clothing, bimbo wife that you hope will never meet your mistress.. Kids out of control and resentful. I try to keep out of both syndromes. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Kerry Packer was paid in franked dividends, so the tax was already paid. He had an army of lawyers and beat the tax office over this issue.

 

This wasn't lost on a mate of mine who started paying cash where possible and telling the tradies that his cash was the same as a franked dividend since the tax had already been paid when he got his cash at work.