green power solar is

[Marty_d]

Fair enough Neil, stop paying. Coal is dead, didn't you get the memo?

 

Renewables 'heading for 80 per cent of electricity market by 2030'

 

 

[nomadpete]

Marty, let go.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I'm not the one hanging on to the past, Peter. If Neil wants to get on a public forum and put his point forward, he's got to accept that people won't always agree with him.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Just agree to disagree.

 

I value the people involved, more than the desire to convince anyone of my convictions.

 

 

[red750]

A bit of abstract thinking. It's OK to put solar panels on your roof, and install a battery, from which you can recharge your electric car, but how do people who live in multi storey apartments get on? Not .much roof per apartment. Who has rights to the battery?

 

 

[spacesailor]

The owner's equally, I would have thought.

 

Could be wrong, Just the developer, retaining a little profit for their own pocket.

 

The renter's get only their bills.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... how do people who live in multi storey apartments get on? Not .much roof per apartment. Who has rights to the battery?

A good point, Red. Darwin has lagged behind the rest of Oz in installing rooftop solar, mostly due to high number of rentals. There are ways for people without their own roof to own solar panels, including strata title and shared ownership of rural solar farms.

 

 

[Bruce]

It takes quite a few solar panels to recharge a car, I think about 20 depending of course on how far you drive each day and how big the car is. Then there is the problem for commuters who are at work when the sun is shining.

 

All solvable, but expensive , such as having 2 lots of batteries.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It takes quite a few solar panels to recharge a car, I think about 20 depending of course on how far you drive each day and how big the car is. Then there is the problem for commuters who are at work when the sun is shining.All solvable, but expensive , such as having 2 lots of batteries.

That's not a problem, Bruce. It's an opportunity. Cars and buildings should be roofed with solar panels. Instead of today where we compete to get a park in the shade, we should be parking in the sun to get a free top-up.

 

Our cars could be plugged in when not in use, so their batteries could be part of a massive distributed smart storage system.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Put the solar panels onto the vehicle roof itself, only a trickle charge, but it will shade that car from the sun.[ATTACH]49713._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

I mean, one person for a few minutes drive to the office, why drive a large car. as most are in a Metropolitan area, CATCH A BUS !.

 

What next, A ban on ALL private backyard swimming-pools, force every one to use the Public swimming pools?.

 

spacesailor

 

[ATTACH]49712._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[nomadpete]

Every supermarket has acres and acres of shade sails. These sails don't last very long compared to the lifespan of solar panels. I guess that over a 25 year span (the guaranteed life of quality panels) it would be about the same price to install solar shade/ charging for shoppers.

 

A classic win/win opportunity.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Our cars could be plugged in when not in use, so their batteries could be part of a massive distributed smart storage system.

 

could you send me a couple of them batteries that don't need to use electrical currant to charge neil:groan:

 

 

[octave]

Our cars could be plugged in when not in use, so their batteries could be part of a massive distributed smart storage system.could you send me a couple of them batteries that don't need to use electrical currant to charge neil:groan:

 

It is called vehicle to grid and is designed to use draw power back during expensive peaks and then recharged overnight on off-peak. To put it another way, imagine when electric vehicles are more common they will effectively be competing with power companies during peak price times.

 

Vehicle to grid technology makes Nissan Leaf a mobile battery

 

 

[spacesailor]

The power companies will have a good laugh, if you think they'l pay for surplus power.

 

All the people I know that's "grid connected" are whinging about their poor returns.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

The power companies will have a good laugh, if you think they'l pay for surplus power.All the people I know that's "grid connected" are whinging about their poor returns.

 

spacesailor

That, of course, is possible but does not mean it should not be pursued. Of course, you could use the power directly yourself. I foresee that the balance of power between the power company and householder will become more advantageous. The technology that is being developed at the moment means that when you get home you plug your car in and you will be able to set the parameters ie the grid can take this much power at this time but only above a certain price the car will then recharge during the cheap off-peak time. This is unlike the system now where feeding power back to the grid is at a set price Here is a clip that explains how it could work

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woFdW2Jk3TI

 

 

[red750]

Apparently the early roadster model Tesla had V2G. Elon Musk was asked if it was possible, and replied that they might revisit it. The idea of V2V technology may also be examined, so if someone runs out of charge away from a charging station, they could "borrow" enough power from another car to get to a charging station.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Octave

 

"This is unlike the system now where feeding power back to the grid is at a set price"

 

Set by whoever owns that piece of equipment on your wall, Sealed so consumers can't alter their remuneration.

 

I have never seen or heard of a electricity meter owned & operated by any consumer, Large or domestic.

 

They have the power. and governments pay homage to those that wield power.

 

Their new trick is the SMART meter !, WI FI connected to Your NBN, so they don't even pay the meter-reader. Paperless, to save Their money on your bill.

 

AND still the cost goes forever up, up & away.

 

WHO's going to pay for the removal of all the obsolescent wires and boxes on all the house walls. Telstra . OPTUS, I don't think they've even given it a thought.

 

I like advancement, as long as it doesn't cost me dearly.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

RED

 

Electric cable, for / instead of a TOWROPE.

 

Not in NSW, it's illegal.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Octave"This is unlike the system now where feeding power back to the grid is at a set price"

 

Set by whoever owns that piece of equipment on your wall, Sealed so consumers can't alter their remuneration.

 

I have never seen or heard of a electricity meter owned & operated by any consumer, Large or domestic.

 

They have the power. and governments pay homage to those that wield power.

 

Their new trick is the SMART meter !, WI FI connected to Your NBN, so they don't even pay the meter-reader. Paperless, to save Their money on your bill.

 

AND still the cost goes forever up, up & away.

 

WHO's going to pay for the removal of all the obsolescent wires and boxes on all the house walls. Telstra . OPTUS, I don't think they've even given it a thought.

 

I like advancement, as long as it doesn't cost me dearly.

 

spacesailor

Space if you really look into it, these things are being worked on, It is easy to think these things are pie in the sky and maybe ev to grid will not be the way we go however who would have thought 25 years ago that billions of computers around the world would be connected and that we could communicate so effortlessly. Your argument seems to be this, "I can not imagine how software could control the flow of power and scheduling and pricing, therefore it sounds like nonsense".

 

When you say you "like advancement as long as it doesn't cost you dearly" ev to grid would not be compulsory you know, you would not be forced to sell your vehicle power to the grid.

 

Anyone who is genuinely interested in this subject more than just "I reckon its cool" or "nah that will never work", here is a study. Now, this study is not a ringing endorsement, it points out pros and cons It is quite detailed and I am still working my way through it.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517307619

 

I guess time will tell, we will see what happens. My prediction is that EVs will continue to increase market share over the next few years. Smart grids will get smarter, technology will improve exactly like other technologies. Who doesn't remember the first enormous mobile phones, too expensive for all but the richest same with PCs.

 

 

[red750]

REDElectric cable, for / instead of a TOWROPE.

 

Not in NSW, it's illegal.

 

spacesailor

Not as a tow rope, like a jumper lead if you have a flat battery.

 

This article may explain it.

 

 

[spacesailor]

BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.

 

Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI

 

And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.

 

Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.

 

All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.

 

I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI

 

And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.

 

Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.

 

All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.

 

I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.

 

spacesailor

 

space did you watch the video?

 

What is being proposed is this You come home from work, you don't want to charge your car until the off-peak period but your daily travel has left you with extra capacity. You then via your vehicle allow some power to go to the grid when the price being offered is acceptable to you. if the price being offered is not satisfactory then it does not happen. Whilst at the moment I think there are only a few pilot systems running if people like it and it works then it will become more common. The comparison with solar feedback tariffs is erroneous. People bought solar panels their only purpose is to sell electricity back to the grid, therefore, the price you get paid is very important. If you buy an EV you buy it because you want to and it suits your lifestyle you can then and only if you want to allow your charger to sell power to the grid. The difference is with solar feedback you enter into an agreement for a certain period of time at a certain price. If people are unhappy with what they get paid for EV to the grid then they don't allow it.

 

Can you see the difference?

 

The study I posted a link to pointed out pros and cons and technical challenges. I am glad that there are plenty of scientist engineers and investors who are innovative and who propose and test new ideas. There is no other time in history that I would have prefered to live.

 

Anyway, I suspect that you are not necessarily interested in the details.

 

 

[spacesailor]

True, I didn't take the time to read it, as I will never afford a new car, of any caliber, at my age a new car would be a complete waste as THEY will take my licence

 

off me for being haggard (aged).

 

I will read it at a later date. (saved address to notepad )

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Space, I'm like you as far as an electric car goes but I do have an $800 electric bike and a mate of mine has a mobility scooter.

 

The bike battery is 36 volts and 10 amp-hours, so it stores 360 Watt-hours or .36KWh which is about 10 cents worth.

 

I recommend you try an electric bike, I reckon its great... like going a bit downhill when it suits you. I haven't tried the scooter yet, my mate says it has freed him from being dependent on the wife and he really likes it. I still have my driving license but the 10 tonne endorsement was going to cost money for a special medical so it was not renewed. The big tractor here doesn't seem to mind at all.

 

The bike battery would keep the fridge cold for half the day as long as you didn't open it too much. Not worth connecting to the grid though.

 

A steam-driven generator would return some money if connected to the grid with the right agreement, but it would not be able to pay the minimum wage for an attendant. And that's with free wood to fire the boiler.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Bruce.

 

Yes the mobility scooter is a god send, But only if you don't need any exercise, which of course means, Leave the dam thing in the shed, & don't buy batteries for it. LoL.

 

Same goes for the pushy with a little "power-pack" on the rear wheel. Thousands in the fifties.

 

They all fell short of getting you home in the pouring rain ( nine times out of ten ) when needed the most.

 

Murphy's law I believe. You have a need, & up pops Murphy.

 

I was offered electric bikes at $100 a pop, but had no way to transport them, straight off the boat, so must be cheap in China.

 

spacesailor