green power solar is

[Bruce]

It is only recently that electric push-bikes dropped below 2 or 3 thousand as advertised around here. This Sydney friend who is looking to buy one was told by an "expert" that you need to spend $3,000 to get a decent one. Of course, we rural people think everybody who lives in Sydney is rich.

 

So you should have bought a job lot at $100. Gosh 400 bikes with $2500 profit each would make anyone a millionaire...

 

 

[kgwilson]

BUT you really think the Power Moguls would not cash in on getting more loot for less effort.Smart meters are almost compulsory, as my sister in law, was told new meter, ( no buts), after installation the found said meter couldn't connect to owners's WI FI

 

And they would still need access to read the Smart meter.

 

Just like Compulsory Internet, NBN. Do they really think, people will not rebel. & find other way's to get back onto the internet, without that compulsion.

 

All Our NBN internet will be vetted by the secret service, Just like they (secret service) read our mail, Then put a bar-code sticker on to close the envelope.

 

I complained the first time it was opened, & the PO said customs service did it.

 

spacesailor

Smart meters are only smart for the energy supplier as they have determined what the software does and that is to benefit themselves. Distributed supply is coming and is being developed all around the world including some large companies such as Siemens. Closer to home Paladin Energy in NZ have produced a solar power controller that monitors the mains power in and out 3700 times a second and diverts solar produced power to the water heater. This effectively stores energy as hot water so your water heater becomes a battery. It can also divert power to heat the pool, charge batteries & the EV etc so you benefit dramatically rather than send it back via the so called smart meter to the energy company who will pay you a pittance like 6 or 7 cents a kWh & then sell it back to you at 38 cents a kWh during peak times.

 

In a distributed system every individual with solar panels (& batteries) becomes an energy supplier as well as a customer. During the day when demand is low the batteries are charged, water is heated etc. At night if you have excess power then that goes into the system and may be bought by your neighbour. This can all be coupled with huge wind, solar, pumped hydro, battery farms and other renewable energy systems to ensure 100% renewable energy supply and use. It is just simple and effective use of well designed energy management software.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Who will own this " Distributed supply".

 

I have a contract with My power supplier who owns the equipment that meter's my usage, I don't think they would like someone else's meter replacing theirs.

 

Perhaps I could buy my own electricity meter from Ebay, & put in my tariff, 8 cents LoL

 

Gas water heater, gas cooker & no pool to heat. Plus no Fixed solar panels, yet

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Who will own this " Distributed supply"...

YOU do. You are now a power station, just like the big boys. Installing you own smart meter allows YOU to control how much of your power you feed to the grid and how much you use to charge your battery, etc.

 

 

[Bruce]

I don't understand, old K.

 

If I could go off the grid, then there that be real independence (unless they could charge you "supply charge" for the fact that their poles go near your house )

 

 

[spacesailor]

Sounds like

 

Perpetual motion,

 

On the grid charges car, add solar, off grid, car charges grid !.

 

Flat batteries can't recharge solely by solar.

 

Or have I missed something

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Sounds likePerpetual motion,

 

On the grid charges car, add solar, off grid, car charges grid !.

 

Or have I missed something

 

spacesailor

Not perpetual motion, Spacey. Your battery is helping to solve the main problem of renewable energy: variations in supply. Plug your car into the grid while you're not using it. If there's a surplus of renewable energy available, it can charge up your car's battery. When demand exceeds supply your battery (and thousands of others) feeds power back in.

 

Modern electronics should allow you to take control of how much your battery will give back, and at what price. The electricity market has been revolutionised by technology like SA's Tesla battery bank which Instantly plugs gaps in power supply until other sources get on line.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I don't understand, old K.If I could go off the grid, then there that be real independence (unless they could charge you "supply charge" for the fact that their poles go near your house )

If you go off grid you're out of the game- independent. If you stay on the grid you can earn money from feeding in power, but they will charge you for the convenience it brings.

 

 

[octave]

Sounds likePerpetual motion,

 

On the grid charges car, add solar, off grid, car charges grid !.

 

Flat batteries can't recharge solely by solar.

 

Or have I missed something

 

spacesailor

What your missing is this, you don't charge your car during peak cost time (typically early evening when people are cooking dinner etc.) During this time the generators charge retailers huge prices (it is like any other market, supply and demand) The generators also have to have the capacity available for these peeks and this feeds into our bills. It is nothing to do with getting energy from nowhere Your car has power available as your trip to and from work has lets say only half discharged your car. If you decide you are not making any trips for the rest of the evening and of course you are not going to charge it until the early hours WHEN OFF PEAK Electricity is CHEAPER you sell the grid some of the power from your batteries when prices are high and you replenish it with cheap off-peak power.

 

This is already being trialled in Europe and the US At this stage, it is mainly business, large fleet operators etc.

 

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/electric-cars-and-hybrids/could-v2g-turn-your-fleet-into-a-revenue-generato

 

https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3025606/world-first-nissan-revs-up-plan-for-business-fleet-focused-vehicle-to-grid-trial

 

Basically, it is selling something at a high price and buying it back later when the price is lower. If the price paid by the power company is too low no one will sell

 

 

[kgwilson]

It is all so simple and your intelligent controller will know what prices are being charged and what price you can get for your power at any millisecond in time.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Still doesn't compute ?.

 

I don't have "OFF-peak".

 

I pay one tariff, which is the same day or night, broken into "First units at this price"

 

Second units at the same price.

 

so what is the "Off-peak"

 

Both add up to my total units used at said price and that's my bill for this quarter.

 

If smart meter's need Wi-FI to read itself, I'm not letting the power company use my internet & power to bill me

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Still doesn't compute ?.I don't have "OFF-peak".

 

I pay one tariff, which is the same day or night, broken into "First units at this price"

 

Second units at the same price.

 

so what is the "Off-peak"

 

Both add up to my total units used at said price and that's my bill for this quarter.

 

If smart meter's need Wi-FI to read itself, I'm not letting the power company use my internet & power to bill me

 

spacesailor

Off-peak power is discounted electricity at times when energy usage is low such as late at night. You may not have an off peak power but you could get it if you wanted it and if it were advantageous to you.

 

Clearly for EV to grid to be profitable you would need to have variable priced power. You clearly are on a single rate tariff and therefore you wouldn't be able to sell at a higher price and buy at a lower price. Also, I assume you don't own an electric car so I am guessing it is not relevant to you.

 

Here is an explanation of what off-peak power is Peak & Off-Peak Electricity Times | Tariffs & Rates – Canstar Blue

 

Most people are on a single rate tariff but if you were charging an electric vehicle it would make sense to be on an off peak deal which would make charging your car overnight cheaper.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Also, I assume you don't own an electric car "

 

I am open to any free vehicle, Petrol, diesel, gas, & electric. (NEW as I can't afford one)

 

Should I put it in my Christmas list. It will give my family a big laugh.

 

Or a solar battery, aircraft, flights, Gee I'm getting carried away here. LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[kgwilson]

When I moved into my new house it had a smart meter but all 3 tariffs were the same. I put in solar panels. The power company said it will be cheaper for you to stay on the single tariff. I checked, it wasn't. I complained & it took them about 3 months to sort it out. Then I asked for a refund from the original date based of the 3 tariffs. After about a dozen phone calls & emails I got the refund. As soon as that happened I switched suppliers.

 

 

[storchy neil]

think about your smart meter can it be told to slow down your usage at any given time remotely so as the provider does not have a power out neil

 

 

[storchy neil]

since solar installed my peek 36 cents kwh off peek 22 cents kwh back to grid 713 cents

 

before solar installed 18 cents kwh peek 12 cents kwh off peek

 

space check that out if you have no panels could be different laws nsw neil

 

 

[Bruce]

I was just looking at storage battery costs. The SA govt is offering a subsidy of $500 per kWh.

 

LiFe's from Hobbyking are about $1000 per kWh, but the cheapest battery system appears to be much more than this.

 

My guess is that there are big profits out there, confined to the suppliers.

 

A 5kWh setup should cost $2500 after the subsidy . This would store 200 cents worth of electricity at 40 cents/kWh. If it had a life of 1000 cycles, it would return $2000.

 

Mind you, if electricity moved from 40 cents to 40 dollars per kWh, the figures would favour the batteries.

 

 

[facthunter]

There will be an oversupply of power at times and you will be able to get it for almost nothing on those occasions so as to keep the local grid stable. Smart meters and switching systems are part of the plan. You will negotiate a lower tariff if you let them have some of your storage or interrupt part of your supply for an agreed time at short notice. Nothing responds more quickly than a battery or switching something off, so we will see more of this in the future.

 

. The trend for costs in these areas is down for wind solar etc., whereas in everything to do with hydrocarbons and carbon it's UP and unpopular with climate concerned people. (more all the time).

 

Electrons, which are electricity flow, are the same no matter how they are generated. Transmission losses will always be there. for large grids and large grids add nearly half to the cost and cause unreliability. Susceptible to severe weather events fires etc

 

Generators will always charge what the market will pay, which must exceed the costs or it doesn't keep happening.. Short term prices (at peak demand) can be based on costs over 80 cents /Kw hour or more and still be viable as they only top up as and when needed. and back up otherwise cheap sources.. Critical Coal takes a day or more to bring on line and is only efficient at near max rated output. It's expensive infrastructure with a life of 50 years or more required to pay it off. Far more expensive than running inefficient old worn out structures.. Even Diesel gets very expensive at low % of rated power and intermittent use of smallish units. Apparently Europe uses a lot of Palm oil in it's diesel . A contentious practice even though it's considered renewable. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

with in 130 ks of of me there is going to be 7102 ha off land that will not have a single tree on it or with in 500 mtrs land will be cleared of all vegetation for your solar farm to generate 3165 mw of electricity

 

now should I want to put in a lateral spray irrigation system to cover 106 ha and there are 6 gum trees in its path I cant do it unless I plant 1000 times the amount off trees I remove

 

the made in aust sticker will not be on any of the panels but stamped on them made in china

 

what part off the wind a turbine is made in aust neil

 

 

[facthunter]

The manufacturing ( and hope of) about 5 years ago, disappeared Neil. due to LNP govt policies. killed it off and set us back years or tens of years. Policies which are still dividing them from within and costing this country billions on policy stagnation.

 

I prefer Solar farms to open cut coal mines as one will kill the planet and one won't. No land will be degraded by having a solar array erected on it. No mine is ever "restored" to as found. Look up the McArthur River in the NT. Profits from coal go mostly overseas.. We should be rejoicing over the ending of the life of the power station Hazelwood in the Latrobe Valley. One of the dirtiest in the entire world where a fire not long ago in the Brown coal seam made the place virtually uninhabitable and had life long effects on people's health.. There will be plenty of work cleaning up the site, but the Valley will turn a corner and be a better place, as a result. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

sorry nev that's a typical labor or green answer try and think up some more crap

 

nev have you a new way of stopping the grouth off grasses that does not involve weed killer

 

hazelwood the royalties have been tripled in the last few years

 

bail out that is what you mean for the car industry why in the hell should I have my taxes to bail out a union run business

 

have you a plan for Latrobe valley when it turns the corner that will bring back jobs

 

four years time Victoria wont be worth a zac cause china will own it neil

 

 

[spacesailor]

" or interrupt part of your supply for an agreed time at short notice"

 

When living in NZ, with an all electric house The power supplier turned off ALL the heating by a Ripple-switch.

 

After three days I had to buy a Kerosene heater, or freeze to death, Cold winter with frozen taps Inside the house even the water in flower vase froze solid & broke the glass.

 

so don't give away your choice of when to Switch off, they wont care.

 

That's why it's now Gas / electric, even without the Gas Mantles of the old lights, & always have Kero table lamps on standby.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

Sometimes I think I'd like to go off grid just to be independent from the energy retailers, even if it cost more. It would be nice to not have to deal with them.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I would like to be independent, every "brown-out", few & far between these days, but always around the corner.

 

Was caught out some time ago, but beat it the last couple of times (POWER-CUT) with a little generator, that I loaned out, silly me again, never got it back.

 

It feels great when watching telly in a power black-out.LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[storchy neil]

I have at my place 69 kva 9 kva 2.5 kva gens all with fuel handy ready to go change the fuel every couple of months neil