green power solar is

[Old Koreelah]

... it's now Gas / electric, even without the Gas Mantles of the old lights, & always have Kero table lamps on standby.spacesailor

We still have the kero lamp my family used in the 50's. It gets the odd workout when storms bring down a line.

 

It does us a power of good to be reminded of how dependant we have become.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Here is some balance to counteract the false propaganda about wind farms. It seems that wind turbines really DO KILL BIRDS.

 

A 2009 study using US and European data on bird deaths estimated the number of birds killed per unit of power generated by wind, fossil fuel and nuclear power systems.

 

It concluded:

 

wind farms and nuclear power stations are responsible each for between 0.3 and 0.4 fatalities per gigawatt-hour (GWh) of electricity while fossil-fuelled power stations are responsible for about 5.2 fatalities per GWh.

 

That’s nearly 15 times more. From this, the author estimated:

 

wind farms killed approximately seven thousand birds in the United States in 2006 but nuclear plants killed about 327,000 and fossil-fuelled power plants 14.5 million.

 

In other words, for every one bird killed by a wind turbine, nuclear and fossil fuel powered plants killed 2,118 birds.

 

Interesting!

 

 

[nomadpete]

Furthermore, although it has nothing to do with green energy, it might relate to cat hugging Greenies who just lurv cute, cuddly furry pussycats.....

 

Cats kill an amazing number of birds annually, as this study estimated...

 

Cats (feral) 79,600,000 1 in 2.3 deaths.

 

Cats (domestic) 54,880,000 1 in 3.4

 

Reference:

 

Journal Avian Conservation and Ecology in 2013 by scientists from Canada’s Environment Canada, Wildlife Research Division.

 

Of course, that's only for Canada.

 

 

[storchy neil]

very …….slowly …...now.... what …..part..... of.....your..... wind ….turbine ….is...…. made.... in.... aust....neil

 

 

[storchy neil]

your right about the cats two dead birds on my lawn this morning that bloody instructions for cat curry may be needed neil

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Very interesting stats, Nomad. Much as I prefer renewables to nuclear and coal, those figures make no sense to me. I've heard lots of birds are killed by wind turbines, but how do nukes kill them?

 

Cats are a whole other issue; plenty of my greenie mates are totally hypocritical on this. We need a calici - style virus to contol their numbers before they destroy our unique wildlife.

 

 

[facthunter]

There are plenty of birds that anihilate other birds when they take over as well.. Wind turbines don't rotate that fast and birds have reasonable eyesight. The truth is made difficult to find by those who profit from you not knowing it. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

A full article here

 

https://doi.org/10.1080/1943815X.2012.746993

 

However, it seems that the stats we're compiled using very biased numbers, especially about the nuclear plants. My own experience is only related to coal fired power stations. These are a definite health hazard. My personal thoughts are that nuclear would pose similar risk to coal (once you ignore the long term waste issues). I have visited several wind farms and never saw a dead bird, and was hard pressed to hear any noise from them.(yes they were running at the time).

 

 

[storchy neil]

well well well just a little news for you guys looks like there are moves to go to the dreaded coal suck it up princes it has to come neil

 

 

[kgwilson]

Most wind turbines rotate at about 12 to 15 RPM. These have blades of 30 to 50 metres giving a diameter of 60 to 100 metres. The latest very large turbine installed offshore in Scotland produces 9.5 mW of power from blades 83.5 metres long meaning a diameter of more than 168 metres. This one turns at between 6 & 9 RPM.

 

A 2009 study using US and European data on bird deaths estimated the number of birds killed per unit of power generated by wind, fossil fuel and nuclear power systems.

 

It concluded:

 

wind farms and nuclear power stations are responsible each for between 0.3 and 0.4 fatalities per gigawatt-hour (GWh) of electricity while fossil-fuelled power stations are responsible for about 5.2 fatalities per GWh.

That’s nearly 15 times more. From this, the author estimated:

 

wind farms killed approximately seven thousand birds in the United States in 2006 but nuclear plants killed about 327,000 and fossil-fuelled power plants 14.5 million.

In other words, for every one bird killed by a wind turbine, nuclear and fossil fuel powered plants killed 2,118 birds.

 

Since then turbine blade design has improved and the bird mortality rate has decreased dramatically.

 

Interestingly the Bald Hills wind farm in Victoria (now complete) was originally turned down in 2006 by fossil fuel political interests on the basis that it endangered the orange-bellied parrot that was said to be at risk of extinction within 50 years, despite the fact that the bird had not been sighted in the area in the previous 25 years.

 

 

[Marty_d]

well well well just a little news for you guys looks like there are moves to go to the dreaded coal suck it up princes it has to come neil

Yeah, well hopefully there'll be a change of government before that happens. Morrison and his team are just trying everything out of desperation now because the chances of them getting re-elected come March are bugger all.

 

By the way, it's "princess".

 

 

[nomadpete]

No Marty. It's not princess. Neil is gender correct. Unless you are not what you appear to be!

 

 

[facthunter]

Then it should be "Prince" (singular) but the usual saying is princess and I would put money on that being what Neil meant. ( Not that I'm an expert on what neil means, or a betting man) Nev

 

 

[red750]

Is anyone an expert on what Neil says? (Sorry Neil)

 

 

[red750]

A report on Sunday Sunrise, that Port Pirie, SA, has set up micro grids (a street or suburban block), where all rooftop solar panels are linked to a community battery. Residents supply or draw power as required. This greatly reduces their reliance on the state grid, and has almost halved their electricity bills. They spoke to one senior resident who claims he can now afford to take his first holiday in years. Promoted by a local councillor.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Is anyone an expert on what Neil says? (Sorry Neil)

This is the last thing I can find and it was reported in the Guardian on 23 October.

 

The Morrison government has held out the prospect of government support for new coal-fired power stations “where they meet all the requirements” of yet-to-be determined mechanisms to boost investment in new electricity generation.

 

This was just after losing Wentworth and was the beginning of multiple incoherent statements which are still happening in some sort of incomprehensible effort to appeal to different groups of society to gain voter support. It isn't working.

 

 

[Bruce]

That's a great story red. I've often thought our street would be better off outside the council, since we could hire contractors to do the rubbish etc much cheaper than our rates, which have to carry fat-cat salaries before paying for essentials. it is interesting that electricity supply might be the first thing to show that smaller can be better.

 

 

[facthunter]

The BIG operators don't want this . They have known for years they will have a smaller and smaller market, with higher cost/customer and are $#1tting themselves. Renewable is cheaper and as time passes more so.. Banana boy even want s to renege on Snowy Hydro's pump hydro and use COAL instead..Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

nah kg bit latter than that looking at how many would be interested in doing a new generation coal fired station same as japan looking interesting neil

 

 

[spacesailor]

A Welsh village put in their own optical cable for internet, cheaper than the big boy's & speed unlimited (940mpm).

 

Unheard of this side of the globe.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... I've often thought our street would be better off outside the council, since we could hire contractors to do the rubbish etc much cheaper than our rates, which have to carry fat-cat salaries before paying for essentials...

Residents of rural shires are in effect forced to subsidize larger and richer nearby centres because that’s where many of their higher-paid staff live. State government regulations prevent them asking candidate for General Manager where they will live.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

America has most of the problems, and it also creates some of the solutions. When a Republican mayor in Texas becomes a champion of renewables, there is hope:

 

Texan city fights Trump on climate change

 

 

[storchy neil]

gee I am stupid thank you for paying my gas and power bills with your tax until 2025 since I have not had to put my hand in my pocket to pay a bloody cent since your solar and save the planet ideas came into force read and weep merry Christmas neil

 

 

[facthunter]

If it bothers you, you could negotiate a Proper and Reasonable feed in tariff. You know you are being paid an extortionate amount and you keep making out it's clever. What you have is an anomaly It's NOT a market forces thing. Why it's still valid years after it was introduced is hard to fathom when all other tariffs were altered. and the most out of whack one retained. WE /They pay you too much whether we/they need it or not . The NEW market will pay more when it's needed and practically give it away when they have an excess. That's when the STORAGE factor comes in. The Fairness test for many things is "IF everybody did it how would it play out?". Regions will become autonomous and self sustaining. The GRID will have to justify itself in new circumstance where Monster 50 year life power stations don't monopolise the concept and design of a universal inefficient and unreliable grid for a spread out country like what we have. The grid was perpetuated and promoted on the false assumption that suppliers would fall all over each other to compete on price. That never happened and the go was to maximise profits NOT provide excess power availability , just in case someone wanted it at short notice as it costs heaps. COAL power stations are subject to total failures on hot days at zero notice. They are the cause of a problem frequently, NOT the answer .. Vested interests dominate this discussion . They have been spreading erroneous and confusing "information", as the Tobacco Industry did and some (rightly) fear court action. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I thought the failures on hot days were artificially induced so the spot price would go through the roof.

 

Gosh its terrible to be such a cynic.