green power solar is

[Jerry_Atrick]

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/renewables-to-be-cheaper-than-coal-even-without-climate-policy-csrio-says-20181221-p50nnq.html

[spacesailor]

There's one thing that will cripple our Grid system !.

 

IF we have yet another large'st meteor strike like the last one, Trains hauling coal or oil will not run, solar panels under a foot of snow will not produce'

 

Wind farms ? will they survive the blast.

 

Nuclear power once up & running will last at least (hopefully) fifty years. Time enough to dig our way out?.

 

AND back to those HORRID COLD WINTERS of old, were people froze to death, as well as lots of animals species wiped from the earth.

 

Will make the most ardent Greenie turn BLUE, with cold.

 

spacesai

 

 

[facthunter]

That might be possible Bruce but the risk of it being exposed would be rather significant and you would be sued out of existence for damage and loss of assurance of a supply . Usually a lot of repair is required. You don't just leave it off for a minute and turn it back on again. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Jerry-A

 

Read it, AND,

 

"He said the energy network would also lean more heavily on households and businesses to not use their electricity during peak times.

 

“Demand management is a resource we expect the electricity sector will need to draw on more deeply in coming years to assist in balancing the system and reducing costs.”

 

IF the consumer is switched off at peak demand time, We would not need batteries, or any other stand-by things as there will be NO DEMAND.

 

And our price should (but not always) fall as we are not using power at peak times,

 

Out the back with our wood bbq,! or charcoal.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

With a large solar flare a large section of the North American grid went down some years ago. with current surges. Nuclear wont change that. All this stuff is in constant fine balance and often running near it's limit, like many businesses with low margins on a high cashflow and therefor no ability to be flexible or have a built in buffer. Like Australia only has 3 weeks supply of liquid petroleum and it's mainly from Malaya (Tapis) How bloody silly is that? One old battleship blocking the shipping lanes and WE are "Effed" in 3 weeks.. What use are the Subs (when we get them) and JSF's then?. Nev

 

 

[octave]

uclear power once up & running will last at least (hopefully) fifty years. Time enough to dig our way out?.

Nuclear power plants need to be refuelled every couple of years. More importantly, we need a relatively stable climate to produce food.

 

 

[kgwilson]

If there is a meteor strike the nuclear power plant would likely be stuffed or damaged to a degree that it runs out of control (worse than Chernobyl) & blow up. Then you would have rampant radio active fallout to deal with as well as the cold.

 

 

[spacesailor]

The hit would not necessarily be on our turf.

 

Lot's of shakin to be sure, but the after event would in all probability leave us with another Looonngg winter, no sun, lots of snow, then the dreaded cold.

 

Brrrr, I'll get my winter woolies just thinking about it.

 

If all the greenies were to go were it suits them and leave the warmth to us, that took the trouble to move to the warmer places on earth,

 

We all should be Happier. (Hopefully)

 

The earth my be warming but couldn't we just Use the cooler regions of this globe. 29c to 39 is ok for me, he other half wants 23c to 35c, both of us say 10c to 20 is Cold !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

A few use that argument but it's not that simple..A couple of degrees only,( and we are more than 1/2 way there and increasing very rapidly) on a path that will set off other most likely irreversible effects . Permafrost thaw and large methane release, from peat etc (far worse effect than CO2) and you have ocean levels rising and low level coastal areas made uninhabitable and the seas already becoming more acid.. The ocean acidity and atmospheric Carbon dioxide levels are easily measured and not disputed by anybody . really.

 

The 3rd pole "Himalaya's Snow melt" flow water threatened, where about 1/3rd of the worlds people will have trouble feeding themselves. That's not something insignificant. Snow is highly reflective and any reduction in snow cover means more heat from the sun lands here. Glaciers are receding fast EVERYWHERE they exist.

 

This is not something you can just say "a few hot days have always happened". There's MORE hot days, More cyclones and extreme weather associated phenomenon due mainly to elevated water temps, that puts more energy into weather systems . More frequent, once in a 100 years events. The greenies who get blamed are not causing this. Burning carbon is and deforestation.. The greenies are just the messenger. Why ridicule and ignore the scientists? Their research powers most other development and they are as unanimous as you would be likely to get on anything, on this one 97%. .Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Permafrost is there because of the Nuclear-winter. prior to the meteor strike, the north of the America's was not covered in snow.

 

It was lush green vegetated, were massive animals roamed. ( and a different Humanity )

 

The sea was not at the height of today's beach heads.

 

I agree the sea was originally Fresh water, Perhaps the rain's washed the salt out of the land, and in the far future it may be too thick for ship's to sail across the oceans.

 

As for those billions of humans, All scientist say "Over populated:, Unsustainable"

 

Doesn't take a lot to push world famine over the edge of sustainable.

 

I & other's believe the end of humanity, is set in time and we Will go away, whether kicking & screaming or silently.

 

AND then : Who takes our place,?

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

29c to 39 is ok for me, he other half wants 23c to 35c, both of us say 10c to 20 is Cold !.spacesailor

Speak for yourself. 10 to 20 is fantastic for me. Anything over 20 is a heat wave.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Marty_D

 

Heaps of room in the Big island, New Zealand.,

 

Perfect weather: 15c summers

 

It's heaps warmer Now, lots of Poms live there ArrowTown, is a must to see, So English,!

 

I lived in Wellington, NZ. for 17 years, nearly killed me(LoL), got a bad case of Asthma, Along with my daughter.

 

She was in hospital almost weekly, & was put on a Heart/lung transfer list. Only use Puffer's now in the good country.

 

Never leave home with out one in my pocket, (ventolin)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

New Zealand The shaky isles. The Land of the wrong white crowd..

 

Earlier on the Mainland and New guinea and Tasmania were land linked. Bass straight is only a few hundred feet deep. Same with the Torres straight Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Don't worry about oceanic acidification. It'll be diluted by all that freshly melted polar ice cap.

 

 

[spacesailor]

When the warmth get's the humidity high, the salt will not go up in the clouds, then the oceans will be very acid,

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Salt is not the same as acid of course and Higher atmospheric temps mean more water can be carried in the atmosphere which in turn gives it more energy (heat) for cyclones and hurricanes when it condenses as it rises . Acid dissolves hard shells from plankton etc. Fresh melt will dilute it but may change the ocean currents as well due different densities than now. in certain localities. Ice and snow reflect light and heat better than open ocean. so another adverse effect of snow diminishing causing warming.. . Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Fresh melt will dilute it but may change the ocean currents as well due different densities ...

Very true, Nev. These side effects may be more damaging than increases in weather extremes. The Greenland ice sheet is melting perhaps five times faster than expected. The outflow of cool, fresh water could disrupt the Atlantic Conveyor (Gulf Stream). There are already signs it is weakening.

 

Without this warm current, Western Europe would lose its mild climate and quickly plunge hundreds of millions into famine. The ensuring mass migrations would dwarf those that toppled the Roman Empire.

 

Our climate has always changed, but this might be the most rapid ever: happening far faster than people can adapt.

 

Most people now live in cities to enjoy modern conveniences- and have become dangerously dependent on fragile transport and communications systems that are easily disrupted by storm and flood.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Sorry guys, you didn't see my tongue, firmly in cheek.

 

Back to reality....

 

The next great famine is highly likely to be a result of acidification of ocean causing gaps in the food chain.

 

 

[Bruce]

I dont agree about extinction for humanity. We are just too good as animals at surviving. We can not only eat cockroaches, we can party on them.

 

We can subsist in deserts or tundra. We can sweat and cool ourselves like few other animals can.

 

Civilization is another matter and much more fragile.

 

 

[spacesailor]

YOU are defying the scientist.

 

Science predicted "THE END IS NIE"

 

We have to negotiate the "predicted collision with our Galactic neighbor "ANDROMEDA" (WIKI( The Andromeda Galaxy (M31) is the closest spiral galaxy to us, and though it's gravitationally bound to the Milky Way, )).

 

Science predicts " The Sun will expand to a red giant " (and cook us ).

 

It's in ALL the good sci fi books & movies !

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

you are right space, but that stuff is millions of years away. Old K and nomad are referring to stuff which is ten years or so away.

 

There is a prof from the US who says that humanity will be extinct in ten years and I disagee with him, but we sure are in for some bad climate-change things.

 

 

[facthunter]

Spacey , It's not happening soon. WE will stuff it up long before then, because of our inability to get along with each other and behave like INTELLIGENT beings to act for the good of all. Not short term personal gratification..

 

Bruce, your average person considers it an emergency when they can't get their "usual" brand of coloured milk at the supermarket .. Cut the usual supply chain and you would have total breakdown of social order within weeks. The veneer of civilisation is very thin. Nev

 

 

[red750]

I received a lengthy email yesterday regarding the renewable power generation. It said the biggest problem is that the distribution grid was built to cater for coal mines and coal power generation, and is a long way from wind farms, solar farms or hydro schemes. The power generated by these renewable schemes cannot be fed into the grid, and some are generating power that cannot be used, without overloading the distribution system.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... Cut the usual supply chain and you would have total breakdown of social order within weeks. The veneer of civilisation us very thin. Nev

Nev you're being optimistic. In Nth Qld there was looting within three days of a recent cyclone. Oz has about three weeks supply of fuel, most supermarkets have food for a few days, most household even less.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I received a lengthy email yesterday regarding the renewable power generation. It said the biggest problem is that the distribution grid was built to cater for coal mines and coal power generation, and is a long way from wind farms, solar farms or hydro schemes. The power generated by these renewable schemes cannot be fed into the grid, and some are generating power that cannot be used, without overloading the distribution system.

Then it's time the distribution system was upgraded. What happened to the billions spent on "gold plating" the network?