green power solar is

[Bruce]

I wonder what it would take to convince Sco Mo about climate change. Maybe Abbot losing his seat would do it.

 

On coal, I have no objection if they can make it clean.

 

You would think scrubbing the CO2 out of the exhaust of a power station would be easy enough, it must be quite concentrated there. It seems the cost of energy is what makes things expensive.

 

 

[Marty_d]

ScoMo is intelligent enough to personally accept the validity of climate change science, but ambitious enough to ignore it. He knows he wouldn't lead the LNP for long if he didn't pander to the crackpots in the team (Abbott, Canavan, Abetz, Christensen to name a few).

 

 

[storchy neil]

ah that coal 200 000 homes and factorys with out power in Victoria and the wind and solar saved the day what a load of crap about time some people got new glasses neil

 

 

[nomadpete]

Just shows that you can't always count on 'good old coal' to keep your lights burning and the beer cold.

 

Coal fired electricity didn't save the day, either.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Coal WAS king when I was a kid.

 

In Europe it would still be cosy on a frosty morning, Or to keep our Phil warm when freezing cold outside, OR, Is he living in a "Smokeless area"

 

The government stopped the public burning coal, & had to use second-hand "coke" that had the gas removed by cooking the coal, then selling said gas to us.

 

we could smell the mattresses & rubbish people used to keep the "home fires" burning. luckily we had someone down the mine digging that black gold & getting a couple of bags for our home. (even had frozen neighbors sleeping in front of the fire).

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

Don't knock the COAL too much !.

 

As it did a lot of good, Stopped the burning of wood (charcoal), so Some of the forest that stretched from, the west (UK )

 

To the East Turkey. has remnants pn different countries. in UK, New forest. Germany Black forest. & more.

 

without Coal we would have denuded the whole area, & be like the far East.

 

Why haven't they (the East ) replanted tree's for at least SHADE.

 

Same for Africa, still burning Charcoal, & NO tree planting.

 

India, another "Sacred cows" ,still burns charcoal.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

In parts of India they have extensive eucalypt plantations but the locals strip all the branches off them for fuel as soon as the branch gets bigger than a green shoot.

 

 

[Bruce]

Just read up on the miserable lives led by the poor in India. Their lives are being made much worse by the increasing heat.

 

They are many sick and dying from several factors of which the increasing heat is a prime driver.

 

And yes, space, coal has done good in historical times. It may even have staved off an ice age. But ask an Indian worker who can't work from heat-stroke and now can't buy food, what he thinks of global warming.

 

If CO2 is a good thing, then you can have too much of a good thing, I reckon.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm sure my Grandfather who died slowly of silicosis from working in a coal mine in Newcastle when I was a kid would have a different view. You can't breathe the air in Delhi outside the house and the shortening of their lives is dramatic and attributed directly to the smog.. Have a look at Beijing and there's acknowledged over 10,000 miners die in mines in China annually and the ACTUAL figure is considered to be much worse. ALL of Newcastle is undermined and subsidence is always happening. You get your fossil fuel without the price of it's downside being paid. The company takes the profit over seas and usually pays bugger all tax, and leaves the clean up to the taxpayer. This is without considering the more obvious by the day, effect of human induced climate change..WE are energy junkies with OUR lifestyle.. Waste everywhere to be seen. Nev.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Just read up on the miserable lives led by the poor in India. Their lives are being made much worse by the increasing heat.They are many sick and dying from several factors of which the increasing heat is a prime driver.

 

And yes, space, coal has done good in historical times. It may even have staved off an ice age. But ask an Indian worker who can't work from heat-stroke and now can't buy food, what he thinks of global warming.

 

If CO2 is a good thing, then you can have too much of a good thing, I reckon.

I first visited India in 1973. Then there were 593 million. Now there are over 1.3 billion and they will become the most populous county on earth surpassing China in 2022 according to some experts. It is no wonder the poor lead such miserable existence. Their caste system sees to this anyway but the more than doubling of the population in 45 years has enhanced their misery. I remember oppressive over 40 deg heat in Delhi in June 73, the sun just a big orange ball as there was so much dust & smoke from cooking fires in the atmosphere. Plenty of slums in the big cities, people living in cardboard boxes or anything they could find but most seemed to accept their existence & just got on with life. Walking through the old city one day I came across a bloke who had just died in the street. I stopped & looked around & people just went on with their day. A short while later a couple of blokes with a hand cart turned up & unceremoniously bundled the body on and wandered off.

 

The pollution was bad then but now it is just atrocious. Many have respiratory problems & the wealthy stay indoors most of the time. The worst contributor to their polluted atmosphere is sulphur dioxide & guess where most of that comes from? And our politicians want Indias Adani, one of the worst polluters in the world to build a coal mine here.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Kind of ironic... many of the voices in the other thread about drug testing say things like "if they're stupid enough to take something that kills them, then let them"... but the same voices stand up for burning coal for electricity generation, even though it kills so many.

 

 

 

[pmccarthy]

And oppose nuclear power which could have greatly reduced the suffering. Too late now.

 

 

[Yenn]

It was 1984 when I went to India and the pollution wasn't caused by burning coal. It was cow dung in those days.

 

The fuel stores were works of art, cow pats piled about 1.5m dia and 2m high with a spiral line all around them as the pile was added to.

 

The other polluter was trucks, blowing vast quantities of diesel smoke.

 

They used to say, see the Taj Mahal in the moonlight, we couldn't on full moon it was hidden in smog.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

In Delhi it was cow dung and two stroke exhausts from the tuk tuks, now illegal. Coal was and is seen as an environmental plus so electric power could be more widely distributed.

 

 

[Bruce]

There was a lot of rubbish spruiked about the "green revolution" in India and indeed food production per head increased for years as farmers used more chemicals and fertilizers. The long term effects on population and resources are now being felt. One of the world's biggest aquifers is largely spent.

 

And India is the worst-placed country in the world for global warming ( Australia, the US and China are badly placed too, but India is the worst )

 

 

[Marty_d]

Makes you worry. World's largest population, worst effects of global warming, and nuclear weapons. Not to mention tensions with China who are a waking dragon (India and China have had a little war already), constant tension with nuclear-armed Pakistan, plus growing religious fundamentalism. Yet another potential flashpoint.

 

 

[storchy neil]

being bandied around is that the cost off last weeks power outage in vic sa will cost around wait for it (you have a stab at it) xxxxxxxxxxx owing to the FACT wind and solar failed

 

aint it great that your taxes are being wasted on the biggest con ever of renewable energy neil

 

 

[octave]

being bandied around is that the cost off last weeks power outage in vic sa will cost around wait for it (you have a stab at it) xxxxxxxxxxx owing to the FACT wind and solar failedaint it great that your taxes are being wasted on the biggest con ever of renewable energy neil

Neil 3 coal-fired generators went offline.

 

Power generators fail ahead of horror 44C day

 

POWER GENERATORS FAIL

 

A third electricity generator in Victoria was shut down overnight as people suffered through sweltering temperatures, ahead of an expected 44C day.

 

About 6500 properties lost power on Thursday evening as the mercury struggled to dip below 30C.

 

Victorian Energy Minister Lily D’Ambrosio told 3AW this morning that three units at the coal-fire power stations Yallourn and Loy Yang A were not working.

 

“This means we can’t rule out brownouts,” Ms D’Ambrosio said. “We have ageing coal-fired power stations. They are becoming less reliable.”

 

A spokesman for EnergyAustralia told news.com.au that one unit at Yallourn, located in Latrobe Valley, came offline this morning after leaks were found in one or more boiler tubes.

 

“These tubes are required in the production of steam, which drives the turbine,” he said.

 

The issue was first noticed about midday Wednesday but the station decided to keep the unit running in a “controlled and reduced capacity” to help meet electricity demand during yesterday’s hot weather.

 

“Our ability to safely operate this unit was essential yesterday and helped ensure Victorians remained with power,” he said.

 

“Following this peak period on Thursday, we were forced take it offline because the condition of the tube leak deteriorated.

 

“We will be assessing the unit throughout the day. At this stage it’s unclear when it can return to service.”

 

Another unit was also down for scheduled maintenance so the power station is currently only operating at 50 per cent capacity.

 

A third unit at neighbouring Loy Yang A reportedly went down on Tuesday due to a tube leak with repairs expected to take about three days.

 

United Energy, Powercor and CitiPower spokeswoman Emma Tyner told ABC radio 6500 customers were affected by electricity outages overnight. The number had reduced to about 800 by 9am, mostly in the Powercor network, she said.

 

 

[spacesailor]

AT LAST !.

 

The scientist HAVE at last acknowledged that the humble tree is in trouble.

 

The new scientific test's, have the N American pine tree DEAD in 31 years.

 

Researcher's in New Mexico, are conducting tests on Conifer trees, by heat & drought experiments.

 

Their conclusion is, The trees are on upper end of their heat cycle, Lots of natural conifer forest have large "die-back" area's due to ongoing drought conditions. and triple wild fires.

 

I alway said PLANT more TREE's, if only for shade, Shading the soil lets other plants grow, plant your solar array high enough to let cattle eat the grass Below,

 

How many have I got in this little suburban block,?

 

6 Gwava, 2 pomegranate, 1 fig, 1 plum, and a great big Jacaranda. Didn't count ornamentals, like a dozen rose 6 frangipani trees.

 

I missed the Orange and Lemon tree's.

 

When the Sydney New airport gets operational, IF there's still jet-fuel for the planes. the smog from take-off (24/7) "over Sydney's water-supply", will rival India.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[storchy neil]

for Christ sake 1.1 billion is what it will cost vic and sa tax payers the lying Andrews labour gov is lying bloody and you voted for that sheeeet

 

you A B C are lying $24000 er mwh for electricity the wind and solar could not keep up neil

 

 

[storchy neil]

space in aust we drag a big chain like an ancor chain across trees so as the cattle can eat the leaves neil

 

 

[Bruce]

The voters in Abbott's seat will have a wonderful chance to chance to reject a powerful climate change denier.

 

if Abbott loses his seat, it will be noticed and have an effect all around the world.

 

In recent years, deniers have been increasing their power and here is a chance to even the score and move away from lunacy.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Storchy,

 

We are amused at your inability to accept any evidence that does not fit your world view. You have a right to a view but not to create your own facts. How can the wind and solar be blamed for the old coal burners breaking down? Or do you have special knowledge from a parallel universe?

 

Just in case you did not know- the Earth is Round not flat.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

This from Criag Kelly Liberall MP NSW Australia:

 

Let’s look at the evidence from 24th Jan ...

 

As wind power collapsed into the afternoon, prices in South Australia surged to $14,500 Mwh (they averaged around $40 Mwh before all these ‘cheap’ renewables flooded into the grid) at around 4.30pm ‘’the world’s biggest battery’’ started to dribble in 30MW to the grid.

 

The 30MW was less than 1% of South Australia’s total demand, and less than 0.1% of the National grid’s demand.

 

The world’s biggest battery continued to dribble out around 30MW until 7.30pm, then it ran flat, rendering it completely useless as peak demand hit at 7.30pm.

 

Meanwhile the emergency diesel generators (chewing through a reported 80,000 litres of diesel an hour) were doing the real work in SA, pumping out over 400MW at a time on demand - and they continued to so as demand peaked at 7.30pm, when the world’s largest battery had given up the ghost.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Point 1

 

You cannot compare spot prices with average prices. They are different measures.

 

Point 2

 

Clearly, although wind power did not fill the gap throughout the day, it obviously contributed to the grid until the wind failed. So it helped to keep the spot price down whilst it was producing. Just as the coal fired generators kept the spot price down until they failed.

 

Point 4

 

No power source is infallible. The battery idea is not designed to cope with filling the massive gap that occurred when multiple major (coal fired) generators failed on the same day.

 

Again I say:

 

The power outage is the inevitable result of large scale privatisation of essential services. This short sighted governmental policy will always result in poor reliability due to cost cutting of maintenance.