green power solar is

[facthunter]

It's relying on the energy connected with a change of state to make it more compact.. Nothing really new in that but . Having a mixture makes it more complex as there will be multiple temps/pressure relationships and the possibility of reactions. It's easy to distill off pure gases and deal with them. .

 

 

[Yenn]

Why store the heat produced during compresion and add it later. That makes me wonder why turbochargers are more efficient when they have an intercooloer. Maybe I will look at the video.

 

 

[octave]

It's relying on the energy connected with a change of state to make it more compact.. Nothing really new in that but . Having a mixture makes it more complex as there will be multiple temps/pressure relationships and the possibility of reactions. It's easy to distill off pure gases and deal with them. .

Nev I am at this moment reading a detailed pdf detailing the process complete with equations that are beyond me. I am not sure why the mixture of gases adds to complexity. Basically they take air and cool it to -196 which is the point at which nitrogen condenses whilst oxygen condenses at from memory around -180 this is then stored. When power is require the liquid nitrogen, oxygen and other constituants of air is heated to a temperature where nitrogen and oxygen etc are a gas. The heat comes from stored heat generated by the compression phase. I dont see why there is any need at any point to seperate the various constituents of air. Definately dont take my word for it. A very quick google will take you to detailed information fron pretty reliable sources.

 

 

[octave]

Cryogenic energy storage (CES)

 

Cryogenic Energy Storage

 

 

[Bruce]

Space, the liquid nitrogen at the doctor's surgery is stored VENTED and BOILING. The rate of boiling depends on the insulation of the container and the ambient temperature of the flask's surroundings.

 

Sorry octave but I wrote this before looking at your links which I am sure will agree.

 

On the compressed air storage, I reckon the lifted weight system looks better but they are all expensive. My guess is that sodium-based batteries might win out. At least the pollies are beginning to understand that storage really matters.

 

 

[willedoo]

[willedoo]

There was an interesting show on tv a couple of nights ago with Jeremy Rifkin talking about what he terms the 3rd. industrial revolution. He spoke quite a bit about what China is doing with renewables. Russia is starting to get into it as well. Their first solar power plant opened in 2014; now they have a dozen with a total capacity of 150 MW.. Russia has started producing their own domestically manufactured solar panels and the first batches have just been exported to Europe. The maker aims to build solar power plants with capacity of up to 1 GW by 2022. The above video is an idea which would work ok in Russia, as they have a lot of ex Soviet era abandoned mines, sink holes etc.. Also a lot of redundant industrial acreage and ex airbases, old abandoned military bases etc.. A lot of land area for solar which wouldn't require any land clearing or loss of agricultural land.

 

 

[storchy neil]

what % off reliable power is produced by wind power solar power

 

coal is 24/7 with out coal you will be in the dark or using diesel powered gens end off story oh sheeeet that battery whitch is the great con

 

and by the way thank you coal for putting 66 BILLION dollars in the hand off aust neil

 

 

[facthunter]

That won't go far to help PAY to move all the houses affected along the coast (Where most of Australia LIVES) to a higher level and cope with the millions who live in the various river delta's around Asia or cope with China's water going missing when the Himalaya's don't have snow cover to provide melt for the growth of crops for 1/3rd of the world's population. The Himalaya's are known as the Third Pole. NO Glacier any where is growing. They are ALL receding at a rapid rate . COAL is the PROBLEM, NOT the answer. Most profit from COAL goes overseas. Go swim in the McArthur river or drink it Neil. Rivers are not meant to be drains or sewers. that fish and platypus can't live in and we can't drink. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Sorry Nev.

 

But we Humans have Poo,d & pee,d in ALL our river since and including the Romans.

 

Take Manly And Bondi beach. Both have sewage outflows at handy distances.

 

Thats were coastal dweller's dump their sewage.

 

Inland it's goes into the RIVER's

 

Even London'ers of old, Threw the sewage into the street's, then the rain took it to the Thames River.

 

"rivers are not meant to be drains or sewers. that fish and platypus can't live in and we can't drink. Nev "

 

spacesailor

 

 

[nomadpete]

The rivers are NOT intended to be the sewers of hoards (billions) of a single species.

 

Rivers are fine with small amounts of waste from a variety of creatures. But not ok with the vast amounts of waste that humankind is putting down them.

 

 

[Bruce]

Adelaide was the first city in the world to have a modern sewerage system, where the poo is separated from the stormwater.

 

Sewage engineers are more important than the medical profession in saving lives .

 

Just thought you guys should know some facts.

 

 

[storchy neil]

without dams you have no river flow neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

without dams you have no river flow neil

So before humans built dams, there were no rivers? Fascinating!

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Adelaide was the first city in the world to have a modern sewerage system, where the poo is separated from the stormwater.Sewage engineers are more important than the medical profession in saving lives .

 

Just thought you guys should know some facts.

Well, that may be true, but what if it were instigated my medical or bio-research that suggested it may be healthier to do so? Wouldn't it then be those people whp are teh real lifesavers and the Engineers the conduit of they life-saving skills?

 

 

[Bruce]

Jerry, in those days, operations were done by barbers. Their red and white striped poles represent bandaged and bleeding limbs. It was not until after 1900 or so that it became a good idea to go near a doctor if you were sick. They could bleed you or kill you in many other ways. George Washington was a victim of this.

 

Charles Darwin, as a 16 year-old apprentice doctor, "treated" poor people for awhile in Shropshire.

 

But that was then, and I thank my lucky stars that I live here and now. If anything they are too good at keeping people alive too long, but how can you complain about a profession being too good?

 

 

[facthunter]

They can never be TOO good.. We are not even 1/2 way to understanding ALL the facts about living things, and we don't know what we don't know.. The side effects of many drugs are problematic. Their effects wear off and the target becomes immune eventually . The body's defences need to be utilized where possible. It's enabled enough of us to survive to get HERE..

 

"WE" tend to expect a silver bullet to "fix" things. Some new cure all that works like magic.. Unlikely to happen. Most of us don't respect our own bodies. Often good treatment is wasted, where the person just continues doing the dumb things to them selves that required the treatment in the first place. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

shows that your stupidity of not reading what I wrote RIVER FLOW neil

 

 

[kgwilson]

So before humans built dams there were rivers but they didn't flow?

 

 

[facthunter]

If you slow the flow by damming it and take some there's LESS going to the next people. Shallow storage areas equal lots of evaporation. Less going downstream. Flood irrigation brings the salt to the surface.. IF you have dams and locks you can make it more navigable. (Some of )the fish don't like it. Let's face it, the rivers stuffed. What river in this country isn't, ( more or less) your estuaries are full of bull sharks. They probably breed in those man made Marina's. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Irrigation can be done smart or stupid. Smart means controlling the saline water table somehow.

 

I think that in Australia we have the ability to do it smart, as long as the political will is there. Those ancient Babylonians didn't have the knowledge to do it smart.

 

 

[storchy neil]

kg yes my grandmother walked across the murrey river near barmah in her sunday best before my mother was born it was at a trickle

 

after the hume weir it has been hard to find a place were you could do that

 

oh by the way apparently the gov has found to their surprise a great number of persons that want to build a real power station as your solar and wind is not as good as expected gee that is a surprise to me I think not

 

it had to happened the crap that has been told about wind and solar being the cheapest is total crap take out the subsidies payed to agl and others it is the dearest

 

the vic gov is now losing 33 cents of royalties that was paid by the power companies neil

 

 

[facthunter]

The Murray is not the River in consideration. (The Darling is the one most threatened). I would suggest it as been better administered than the ones associated with the Darling.. Irrigators paid more than in other states, and they used to ridicule us for paying too much. .Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

Bruce, Chernobyl happened in 1986 and Fukushima in 2011. There have been another 9 serious accidents. If the world had been using nuclear power everywhere for the last 50 years it'd need something like 15,000 plants, there'd be a serious accident every month, and we'd have run out of mined uranium in about 5 years.Why nuclear power will never supply the world's energy needs

 

On the other hand, if the world had started rolling out large-scale renewable plants 50 years ago, imagine how fast the innovations in wind, solar, hydro, batteries, and collection & storage in general would have occurred.

 

As to what would never have happened - Exxon Valdez, Deepwater Horizon, Gulf War to name a few.

 

But a few billionaires would not be billionaires if we'd gone that way.

Just as a point of interest, recently I was doing some reading on Chernobyl and decided to check it out on google maps. Street view is available at Pripyat, the abandoned nearby town. Not much to see though, as a lot of trees have grown in the streets blocking the view of a lot of buildings. I bet the google team would have been drawing straws for that job.

 

 

[spacesailor]

", if the world had started rolling out large-scale renewable plants"

 

I thought the world STARTED with renewable's, They called it the industrial revolution !.

 

NOT their fault that OAK tree took too long to grow. to cinder size and every other tree was inferior to the Massive oak. (for charcoal(aussie hard-wood is good))

 

To day, No government or anyone else for that matter Grows OAK tree's, Just the fast growing Cheap Pine. 30 years to chopping size then Maybe 50 before it rots, unless treated with nasty chemicals.

 

spacesailor