green power solar is

[Bruce]

I wish you to be right Marty, but my pessimistic side still thinks there will be dreadful shortfalls on overcast and windless days. Storage works for sure, but it is too darn expensive.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I wish you to be right Marty, but my pessimistic side still thinks there will be dreadful shortfalls on overcast and windless days. Storage works for sure, but it is too darn expensive.

That's the point though Bruce - there's 50,000 batteries as part of the system.

 

 

[willedoo]

But yes Marty, your born-again natural range-fed muesli has radiation.

And bananas; the banana equivalent dose (BED) is used as an informal measurement of ionizing radiation. From memory, eating one banana is about the dose rate of one hour exposure to normal background radiation.

 

The most radioactive things I've encountered are some radium aircraft gauges and turbine engines that use thorium in the compressor casings. Readings around 400 - 600 times background radiation.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

PV cells are a lot more efficient than they used to be and even on overcast days can reach a good level of capacity (> 50%), The reality is it will be a mix of central and distributed systems for some time - at least until local power storage works domestically and commercially. Still, solar cells, local wind turbines complemented with small module reactor sites would reduce the carbon footprint to about 1/10th of what it is now - and would be pretty reliable - all it takes is will power.

 

 

[Bruce]

Once I worked out that it would be $1000 to buy batteries to operate her fridge for a day. That's at one dollar per watt-hour, which is what hobbyking batteries cost. Elton Musk gets them for half of this, but its still too expensive for me.

 

BUT how about this idea... a thermally insulated tank ( all that waste-wool can be used between the inner and outer tanks) on the ground. Then a couple of solar water-heating panels on the roof with a PV driven pump to circulate the water. If I can keep any bureaucracy from getting involved it should be quite cheap.

 

Solar hot water is just great. It feels so much better knowing it was heated for nothing. Yes, you do need to turn a blind eye to the true cost, but I still want to do it.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Go to the local tip and extract from the millions of dicarded tech devixces their batteries; hook them up and voilla! Saved yourself $1000

 

 

[Marty_d]

Once I worked out that it would be $1000 to buy batteries to operate her fridge for a day. That's at one dollar per watt-hour, which is what hobbyking batteries cost. Elton Musk gets them for half of this, but its still too expensive for me.BUT how about this idea... a thermally insulated tank ( all that waste-wool can be used between the inner and outer tanks) on the ground. Then a couple of solar water-heating panels on the roof with a PV driven pump to circulate the water. If I can keep any bureaucracy from getting involved it should be quite cheap.

 

Solar hot water is just great. It feels so much better knowing it was heated for nothing. Yes, you do need to turn a blind eye to the true cost, but I still want to do it.

When our old hot water cylinder crapped it about 6 years ago, we went for a solar system - "Hills" brand (same as the hoist) - 30 evacuated tubes on the roof connected to the insulated HWC in the house. Automatically pumps up the water when the temperature in the tubes up top is hotter than the water. On hot days when you turn on a tap you can actually hear a boiling noise from the HWC.

 

Yes it probably cost 4-5 times what a normal HWC costs, but we would have saved a fair bit in running costs.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I had a primitive solar hws back in the 80's. Back then the electricity retailer penalised me by insisting on installing a separate power Meter (with a quarterly cost far in excess of the electricity used).

 

The HWS cost three times a 'normal' electric one. But I broke even at the six year mark, allowing for all expenses (including boost electricity on cloudy days). After that I was ahead for the next 4 years (sold up, but the HWS was still working.) In the past, I didn't get ten years out of a normal HWS either.

 

Solar Hot Water should be compulsory.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@nomadpete - that should have been illegal. Over here, we had an top up tarrif for the electric company (privatised from a government insitution, just like those of most Aus states) if you put PVs on your roof.. Absolutely corrupt...

 

Agree - solar hot water (in Aus - over here you would want to put yourself into the position of needing cold showers too often to maintain any semblance of sanity) should be compulsory (at least on new builds).

 

Over 'ere, the electric companies are forced to offer various power saving goodies for "free" but they are allowed to recoup the expense through their bills..

 

And bananas; the banana equivalent dose (BED) is used as an informal measurement of ionizing radiation. From memory, eating one banana is about the dose rate of one hour exposure to normal background radiation.

The most radioactive things I've encountered are some radium aircraft gauges and turbine engines that use thorium in the compressor casings. Readings around 400 - 600 times background radiation.

I didn't see this earlier, but i is true - which is the reason why if you by "ripen at home" rubbsh from the supermarket, they say put it in a bowl with a banana - it will ripen before it goes off.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Just maybe solar IS useful in UK. As long as there is backup for long periods of grey weather. When I moved to Tasmania I expected two to three months of running a generator if I went off grid. The stats for 'nil sun' days would suggest this to be the case. So I opted for grid feed-in PV, and paid to connect to the grid. I was most surprised to find that my modest PV array was capable of producing half a kilowatt whist it was overcast and light rain was falling! My calculations based on actual data over the past couple of years, indicate that I SHOULD have gone 'off grid', as the annual solar supply from a 3kv array has more than equalled our consumption for that period.

 

In summary, solar is better than I thought.

 

 

[willedoo]

I didn't see this earlier, but i is true - which is the reason why if you by "ripen at home" rubbsh from the supermarket, they say put it in a bowl with a banana - it will ripen before it goes off.

Jerry, I think bananas have a high ethylene content, which is the gas used for forced ripening of fruit. It does seem to work with natural ripening, putting fruit with bananas.

 

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[Bruce]

In Tas ( or England) I would think a copper coil in the combustion-heater chimney ( or wrapped around the base of the flue) would serve during the winter. The system would need another circulation pump, this one in parallel with the fan on the combustion heater.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The poms (& most of Europe) do heating really well. Mostly hot water radiator panels in each room. I haven't seen them down here - mind you, we don't get the cold temperatures either.

 

Below is a picture of the Bauernhof we stayed at in Bavaria. That shiny surface on the roof is solar panels - about 244 of them! The lady who runs it says they get 44kWh per day. This runs the entire farm, the power / hot water / heating / floor heating for 5 guest apartments and the main farmhouse, all the electrical equipment for a 50-cow dairy etc.

 

[ATTACH]49217._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[spacesailor]

Stick a banana in a microwave cooker & watch the sparks fly.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Jerry, I think bananas have a high ethylene content, which is the gas used for forced ripening of fruit. It does seem to work with natural ripening, putting fruit with bananas.Cheers, Willie.

Yes.. er a little embarresed by that one.. I'll blame my good mate, Wolfie Blass

 

 

[Bruce]

Jerry, if you make it to Adelaide one day I'll take you over the Wolf Blass winery at the northern end of the Barossa Valley, that is if you are humble enough to fly in the home-built old Jabiru in the pic.

 

It is actually owned by a French conglomerate these days, but we still call it the Wolf Blass winery.. its really big and I like their wine, not that I am hard to please when it comes to red wine. Then you can visit there on the ground and sample some stuff.....

 

 

[Bruce]

Marty, I would doubt that those solar panels could provide winter heating for that big place not to mention electricity for a dairy.

 

I bet there was a mains connection.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty, I would doubt that those solar panels could provide winter heating for that big place not to mention electricity for a dairy.I bet there was a mains connection.

If there was, it was damn well hidden.

 

No overhead power lines to the farm and it's 6km from the nearest town.

 

You forget that they insulate REALLY well. Wall construction is usually double concrete block with foam insulation in the gap. Windows are triple glazed. In -4 degree outside weather, the only heating we had on in our apartment was the under-floor heating in the downstairs bathroom, and we still had to crack a window in the bedroom to sleep comfortably.

 

Plus, what you're seeing is the typical German house/barn setup. The farmhouse and 2 apartments are contained in that white bit at the right end of the building (it's 4 storey - two up to the eaves and another 2 in the roofline). The other 3 apartments were in a separate building where Granny lived - also on the same power system. The rest of the long building in the photo is all barn, so unheated apart from the body heat of 50 cattle, 2 horses, 2 ponies, a couple of rabbits, a guinea pig and about 25 million cats. The animals are put in for winter and don't walk on grass again until spring.

 

Our next door neighbours here in Tas, a family of 5, live in a house powered only by 12 solar panels and the occasional burst from a genny. I counted 244 panels on that German roof.

 

 

[nomadpete]

There is so much misinformation about solar.

 

It is practical

 

It does work.

 

Get used to it.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Bruce - thank's for the offer! I may take you up on that one. I am quite humble and am looking att he home-build thing myslef - when I can land my next contract which is harder than I thought (had a 10 year stretch until December).

 

Much of Australia's big wine producers are (or were) French owned. It appears a company called Treasury Wine Estates owns them now (and Penfolds, Rawsons and a few others around the globe). And they are an ASX listed company, so I suppose it is back in Aussie hands now.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Five years ago, just after the NSW government pulled the plug on the solar feed in tarriff that nearly sent them broke, I installed a 2kw system connected to the grid of course. I spent some time doing research & downloaded a very good guide from the Clean Energy Council. I rang 3 solar supplier/installers & had one knock on the door. Three out of four lied through their teeth about how quickly it would be paid off providing false figures and ignoring the fact that the supply charge would stay the same. According to the 3 it would pay itself off in 2-3 years. My estimation was 5-7 years at best. I keep monthly records of how much my panels produce, what we use and what we export plus what we import at peak, shoulder and off peak rates.

 

The system has just paid for itself recently (thanks to the huge increases in energy charges) & the panels have more than 20 years life in them & the inverter is under warranty for another 5 years. I am exporting 51.5% of the power I produce. I was only getting 6 cents per Kwh but now I get 11.5 cents per Kwh for the power I export. My latest quarterly power bill was $155.00. The only gas appliance I have is the barbecue.

 

I have a heat pump hot water system which mainly uses power from the solar panels during the day. It's maximum energy input requirement is 800 watts. I have a large upright freezer and 550 litre fridge./freezer. I also have 2 air conditioning systems, a 2.5kw unit in the main bedroom & a 7.5kw unit in the living area. Both of these are inverters. The bedoom one only runs at night & only when it is hot. I also have ceiling fans in all bedrooms & living areas.

 

I have always been energy wise but when you install solar you need to change your mindset a bit. For example run the dishwasher, washing machine, vacuum cleaner & any other thing where there is a choice during the day when the sun is shining. If you work you can delay the start time on modern appliances so they run when you are not home & the sun is producing free power. On days when the weather is expected to get hot, I start the living area A/C while it is still cool in the early morning. Once it has the house at 24 deg it runs at a trickle using no more than 800 watts, often less.. If I wait till it is hot it will use 2.01KW for a long time before it can get the temperature down to reduce its power input requirements.

 

If I was building a new house now, I'd put in a decent solar system with batteries & tell the energy companies where to go. I have a friend who did this three years ago as he built on acreage & they wanted 20k to bring in the power. He spent less than this on his system including a backup generator for those cloudy days. So far he has only run his generator to make sure it still works. He has a big house & several sheds, 3 freezers etc. He only uses gas (LPG) for cooking, everything else is solar.

 

 

[willedoo]

The rest of the long building in the photo is all barn, so unheated apart from the body heat of 50 cattle, 2 horses, 2 ponies, a couple of rabbits, a guinea pig and about 25 million cats. The animals are put in for winter and don't walk on grass again until spring.

Marty, I think that's a pile of crap.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't think the GRID will ever be reliable. It can't be for many practical REASONS. You would have to essentially duplicate much of it massively increasing the cost.

 

I've been looking at diesel generator sets. They are not that expensive, if you really need that reliability. ALL back up power is expensive because used as a backup, it's idle otherwise. ( a redundant item). Back up for the grid is no different except the way it's been operating the back up supplier can charge the earth for the supply at that stage., and has been doing that and you are paying. The beauty of batteries is they are virtually INSTANT in response. NOTHING else gets near it in that respect. Hospitals and even picture theatres have had back up power in the past., usually their own generating set. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

nah nev it aint expensive diesel what hospital got generators that don't work cause some gerk didn't fill up the diesel tank neil

 

 

[facthunter]

Service and test the equipment occasionally, Neil. Nev