Gender Balance - Impossible pursuit?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Aussie Federal Police unashamedly targeting a 50/50 gender balance in its ranks: AFP Facebook post targeting female recruits sparks social media meltdown, however is it really achievable? And if so, at what cost?

 

I am not against the principle of gender balance. But it assumes that women and men are wired the same way and the simple truth is, in general, they aren't. My take on it is that in order to get a sustainable 50/50 balance, a higher percentage of women will have to be recruited as the chances of attrition among the female ranks is higher simply as more women choose to stay at home after bearing children (at least on my anecdotal evidence). Although undoubtedly over the years, the rate of females becoming full time mums has reduced (partly out of self-fulfilment and partly out of economic necessity) and of course there will be a level of male (and female) attrition out of career change, etc. my question is should the pursuit of gender balance be based on population or sustained working population?

 

Tough question but I think targeting 50/50 realy means new recruiting of a higher percentage of women than men - and is that fair way of addressing gender balance in society?

 

 

[old man emu]

While I have always supported equality in the workplace, policing, especially front line policing, is one area where consideration should be given to a person's physique. I have known some women police constables who could make an origami swan out of a drunken Islander, and some male police constables who couldn't get a fan-belt in a Mitsubishi.

 

The problem is that it is policy that as soon as a woman finds that she is pregnant, she is taken off duties that involve interacting with the public away from the police station. Nothing wrong with that as a means of protecting mother and child, but it does seriously impinge on staffing levels, and the other females and males attached to a Station have to take up the slack. And not for nine months, either. Apart from the length of the pregnancy, there is also the 12 months' maternity leave. This absence from the coal face has serious economic effects on the operations of a Station or Command. Then one has to take into account that a woman, on average, has at least two pregnancies over about five years, so of that five years, the rest of the staff have to carry the shortfall for three years.

 

Prior to, and after, a woman's child-bearing years, most women I have served with have been great work partners. The problem comes if a group of women establish a sewing circle and wheedle themselves into backroom jobs where a lot of policing time is lost in arranging tea parties and such. This throws more load onto those women who haven't been invited into the sewing circle.

 

To my eyes, there has been a change in the way younger generations view their work lives. Baby Boomers and older joined the police with the intention of making it a life-long career. This single life-time career idea does not appear to be something in the make up of younger generations, be that good or bad. It is definitely bad for policing where experience is an important teacher and graduation from the University of Hard Knocks is more valuable during an overnight shift on Saturday than all the Diplomas in Policing and Criminology.

 

OME

 

 

[Bruce]

Some years ago, a girl visiting our house had a mental health crisis and the GP rang for an ambulance. He was initially refused on the grounds that they only had a female crew on duty and a potentially unruly mental-health patient needed at least one male attendant because of strength issues.

 

Why did they not have a strength test to get to be an ambulance driver? OME you are quite right..

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

When are we going to get gender equality in teaching, nursing and childcare?

 

 

[Admin]

The whole question of gender balance at work is wrong. Many females choose to stay at home with the kids, bringing up the family and is a dominant female domain, citing that females can relate and look after kids better than males...also supported by the courts and society's general acceptance. This may add up to a certain percentage yet they don't deduct that percentage from the 50/50 balance. This results in more females being able to do what they want than males. Enough is enough with this whole equality thing and males should now start fighting back and stand up for themselves and stuff being so called politically correct

 

 

[Bruce]

There are far too few males in primary school teaching these days, and the kids are missing out.

 

The best primary teacher I had was a Barossa Valley german-heritage guy who saved me from the awful English idea that people who worked with their hands were somehow second-rate. He had us growing vegetables in little plots and bringing the kites and stuff we made on weekends along as "homework", which he praised us for.

 

 

[robinsm]

At the risk of being flamed, I see this gender balance issue as being anti male, stupid and a divisive nonsense. I have have no problem with women in the workplace, I have worked with and for, women for most of my 40 plus years of working life, but I have a problem with policies that are aimed at pleasing the tree hugging, loonie left, rent a mob minority. The traditional role of the male is as a worker and income earner. Nothing against women doing this but as mentioned earlier, we are wired differently. The women's main traditional role is that of a care giver, mother and supporter. If people had not come to rely on 2 incomes to support expensive increasingly extravagant lifestyles and learned to rely on one income then we would not be having this discussion. Imagine the difference having a parent (either male or female) at home all the time would make to our children, as well as the unemployment problem. Like many people on this site, my family has relied on one income and have the house, car, computers etc. My children also has a parent at home full time doing what parents do, raising children, providing a valuable support base for the rest of the family. Sorry people but we are different, we have biologically different functions and I feel that greed, wants and convenience has replaced, to a large extent the comfort, needs and important child raising functions of the "used to be" family unit where all were partners contributing to the over all functioning of the unit.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Really? "We're wired differently, man work, woman raise kids..." absolute tripe.

 

Culturally in the West we've done that for the last 500 years or so. In other places eg many African cultures, the men sit around talking all day while the women do all the work (and look after the kids). It's just habit and preference, not "natural roles".

 

On the one hand you can't argue that there's too few male primary school teachers, and then argue that men shouldn't help in child raising.

 

In our family I work 4 days a week and look after the youngest on the other day, my wife works between 1 - 3 days a week too. I would argue that if opportunities were equal and flexible working hours possible, there's no reason why each partner couldn't work half a week and do the "women's work" of child care, washing, cooking & cleaning the other half.

 

If you're going to bring up the nature argument, there's many animals that share the child rearing - male penguins keep the egg on their feet and don't eat for months while the female goes fishing, male seahorses actually carry the eggs, many birds share the raising functions. On the other hand male lions do f-all but lie around in the shade while the women go hunting, then stroll in to take the first serving ("Lion's share") of the kill.

 

There used to be jobs where muscle power was required, and yes men are usually more muscular than women. Now anything over 16kg has "2 person lift" written on it anyway. Brainpower is what's usually required these days and the sexes are equal in that regard.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Marty, shouldn't you be out in the shed practicing putting smilies on rivets???

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty, shouldn't you be out in the shed practicing putting smilies on rivets???

No more solid rivets!!! (For a while).

 

 

[Bruce]

Wrong Marty. There are jobs where you might have to lift a person, like ambulance or police or fireperson ( see how wonderful I am when I didn't say fireman?). These jobs need somebody who can lift more than 16kg.

 

If this were done properly, there would be some strong women but more men would pass the strength test and get those jobs.

 

AND I am still annoyed that I have to clear the branches off the paddocks myself because it is impossible to get one of the hundreds of unemployed in the district to help.

 

 

[old man emu]

It is said that it takes a village to raise a child. Too bad that most of us don't live in villages anymore. It's too bad that we have let the greed of a few make it impossible for a modern family to pay for four walls and a roof without both parents working full time, not only to pay off the king's ransom they had to borrow to get the four walls and a roof, but to pay for someone to mind any children they have while they work and travel to and from their place of work.

 

Suburbia has destroyed community.

 

OME

 

We Old Man Emus are the ones who stay back to raise the chicks while the missus goes off to dance classes with brolgas.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Marty_d , you're right - men don't work these days and women don't raise the kids - they leave it to the state

 

Seriously, many African tribes share the duties, but the are generally distinctly shared rather than job shared.. Both gather food, but women generally do what we typically think of gathering - picking fruits, digging seeds, small animals, etc. The males generally go for the bigger game. Both perform upbringing, with the women focusing more on what them women do to the girls and the males focusing on the ceremonial, defence and large game hunting matters. Of course, it's a broad generalisation, but the point is, it is not sharing the burden like it is in our society - they are distinct roles performing distinct rearing functions. Even to take the penguin example, you don't see the female relieving the male from his duties so he can go get some grub. The female is actually ensuring they have the energy and perform the feeding of the young... while the male stands around doing nothing, probably gas-bagging to their mates (as in friends)..

 

So, while in some species, there are the females who do what is typically masculine for our species, there is rarely an overlap of their roles. So there is still what we call a gender imbalance... or more accurately, well developed gender roles in a society.

 

I am not saying that sharing the load is bad for society - it is good for society - I am saying there are certain biological differences (and yes, solidly nurtured role diffeences) that make a gender balance in the workforce impossible without requiring a higher rate of females being recruited than males to ensure a sustainable 50/50 split..

 

 

[Bruce]

The aborigines used to live 90 percent on what the women gathered as the male hunting parties generally came home empty-handed. Well think how hard it would be to kill a kangaroo with just a spear.

 

When they got a decent kill, the men would feast on it that evening and throw scraps out to the women, piccaninnies and dogs waiting behind.

 

 

[Admin]

Asrgh...the good ol days lol

 

 

[facthunter]

So you would be happy to come back as a woman (if it could be done) . 3/4 of the world treat them as a slaves and deny them education. The Saudi's have just allowed them to drive cars... Whoopee

 

 

[Admin]

My comments are specific to Australia as that is the only country that I really care about...changing anything globally would send us around the bend

 

 

[facthunter]

It's usually termed "affirmative action" which is contentious potentially, as the response is often "you got the position not because of your skills, but for political reasons". The current figures in many organisations show a marked preponderance of males in the middle to high management positions. The LNP are notably down on female representation. Should this be "rectified"? Your call. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

It's usually termed "affirmative action" which is contentious potentially, as the response is often "you got the position not because of your skills, but for political reasons". The current figures in many organisations show a marked preponderance of males in the middle to high management positions. The LNP are notably down on female representation. Should this be "rectified"? Your call. Nev

Male or female... I think they should replace hardline conservatives with people whose views reflect reality. I hear TA is now saying that climate change (which he thinks is BS) is actually good for the environment. Just like "coal is good for humanity". I don't know how a Rhodes scholar can be so damn stupid.

 

 

[facthunter]

Women in many positions are really scrutinised far more than a man, so perhaps they respond by being less relaxed and feel they have to do especially well to be just good enough.

 

To get a Rogue's Collar, you just have to be recommended by certain esteemed people I think. Hawke majored in skolling beer I think for his

 

Perhaps Tony Abott has bought coastal sites on the arctic coast near St Petersburgh. as the new sunshine coast.. to share with Vlad the Lad. (his mate)..Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

On the other hand male lions do f-all but lie around in the shade while the women go hunting, then stroll in to take the first serving ("Lion's share") of the kill.

Where do I apply for that job?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Where do I apply for that job?

What, eat raw zebra guts and service smelly lionesses ten times a day? Brave man!

 

 

[old man emu]

What, service smelly lionesses ten times a day?

I'll have what he's having.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Steak tartare at a nightclub?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Steak tartare at a nightclub?

They may be more your wildebeest... but then after a few drinks they turn into foxes.