Las Vegas Shooter.

[Phil Perry]

Dunno where else to put this. Loads of speculation about this bloke today, this is the best and clearest story I could find.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017...

 

I am interested in shooting and guns, as a hobby. Have been since I was in the AIr Cadets aged 13 yrs. ( .22 + .303 ) I enjoyed target and competetition shooting both pistol and rifle.

 

I never felt the desire to kill another human being.

 

What I cannot understand, is why Civilians, in the USA are allowed to own weapons of automatic destruction. . . .

 

They are no use at all for target shooting, they ONLY have ONE purpose, and that is to kill as many humans as possible in the shortest possible time. . . .they are not a 'Fun' weapon to shoot, and the ammunition that they use in a few seconds is ridiculous.

 

Why Oh Why does the American Government trot out the public ownership of MILITARY hardware is part of the second amendmnet all the time ? ? ( Rhetorical ) Do the POLICE really NEED fully automatic weapons ? ? ?

 

What SANE Police commander in a 'Western' city would sanction the use of fully automatic weapons in a civilian area where there is always the possibility of severe co-lateral damage, ( That means dead, innocent, men women and babies ) even in a live terrorist shootout situation. ?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The NRA and military lobby in America is totally out of control. Better men than those currently in charge have tried to bring some sanity to firearms ownership, but have failed. The USA seems cursed to repeat these scenes.

 

Let's not give the moron any oxygen. Don't use his name or picture. Why should cretins earn fame by bringing misery to the innocent?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Agree OK.. But one answer as to why the gun lobby is so powerful can be found here: America's gun business, by the numbers

 

Total eco impact of 43bn is a strong argument....

 

 

[Bruce]

I like Phil's point. Why oh why do you need machine guns? On the farm, a single shot rifle would do nearly all the time.

 

I would accept the odd problem where a rapid second shot would help. Automatics and semi-automatics are insane.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nothing's going to change. Despite the majority of Americans wanting some sort of gun control, the NRA owns too many politicians - including the turd who's floated to the top. He wanted their support during the election and promised to say whatever they wanted him to say in return.

 

You could have a mass shooting every day, the pollies would all wring their hands and say it's terrible and their prayers are with the victims, but if someone tried to limit the 2nd amendment by suggesting that mental patients don't really need semi-automatic assault weapons, they'd whistle and look the other way.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I like Phil's point. Why oh why do you need machine guns? On the farm, a single shot rifle would do nearly all the time.I would accept the odd problem where a rapid second shot would help. Automatics and semi-automatics are insane.

Australia had this debate decades ago. I had heated discussions with shooters who claimed they needed big self-loaders to safely hunt pigs. I knew a middle-aged bloke (not a risk-taker) who hunted pigs in open country with a bow and arrow.

 

 

[octave]

Whilst I am a very compassionate person and I have still have great compassion for the people killed and mutilated and those psychologically damaged, I can no longer feel any empathy for the US as a country. It is moronic for a country to have such an appalling problem with mass shooting and not to have the intelligence to look around the world at countries where this phenomenon is rare and not to ask why. There is a saying that the definition of "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

 

If the US does not change something this will happen again and again.

 

The evidence shows that sensible regulation does work

 

6 Things to Know about Mass Shootings in America

 

 

[facthunter]

Funny, OK. I know a fellow who hunts pigs with a crossbow as well.. Rapid fire military assault weapons are specifically designed to mow down lots of people, quickly.

 

The NRA does "own" Trump. HE particularly encouraged their support, (which could be a little ominous IF he's ever impeached). NRA wield power over most of the other parties (Particularly Republicans ) as well. It's a particular kind of American madness, this love/worship of firearms. Just where does it stop? Particularly cowardly behaviour where you just slaughter unarmed fellow citizens/ people going about ordinary pastimes, without any warning.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Just put things into perspective;

 

1) 524 persons have died from gunshot wounds in Chicago this year. ( 23 just Last weekend alone ) Chicago is a 'Gun Free' city.

 

2) Fully Automatic rifles are Illegal for public ownership in All US States, if manufactured after a certain date ( sorry have not got that date ) .. . .However, . . '.Dollar shop' corner Gun stores all over the USA are openly selling 'Conversion Kits' which alter a semi - automatic to a Fully Automatic weapon. It is ( evidently ) not illegal to sell these kits,. . .just illegal to USE one to modify your rifle in the privacy of your own home.

 

https://www.dnainfo.com/chi...

 

Here is a video clip, taken by a Las Vegas Police officer from her Police car. It shows a burst of automatic weapon fire from the FOURTH floor of the building where the original 'Shooter' was reported by Police and Media to have been on floor 38. . . .Accomplice ?. . . or #FakeNews ?. . .who knows. . . if you blink, you'll miss the twinkling of the supposed fourth floor shots before the police are instructed to get the hell out of there on their radio. . .

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=988246407989467

 

 

[Marty_d]

Um... the fact that the shooter was on the 35th floor is evident because of the broken windows (doesn't look like the windows on the Mandalay Bay open).

 

I didn't see any broken windows on the 4th floor, so a bit confused about where the supposed 2nd shooter shot from.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Whilst I am a very compassionate person and I have still have great compassion for the people killed and mutilated and those psychologically damaged, I can no longer feel any empathy for the US as a country. It is moronic for a country to have such an appalling problem with mass shooting and not to have the intelligence to look around the world at countries where this phenomenon is rare and not to ask why...

There should be a special place in hell for those disgusting humans who mould gullible peoples' mindsets; like Trump's favourite radio shock jock, who claims the massacre of twenty little kids at Sandy Hook never happened.

 

"Fox News is warning its viewers that liberals will use Las Vegas to try and take their guns away."

 

The gun control debate is so toxic there's no point talking about it

 

 

[facthunter]

You could be forgiven for thinking they are stark raving MAD. IF you must have a gun in your life, perhaps you are deficient in normal potency and have found a substitute. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Yep Nev, a gun sure is a good symbol for the masculine member.

 

I reckon the US is crazy because the founding fathers were puritans.

 

I cannot think of a more awful brain-virus ( like a computer virus ) to infect anybody with. So their thwarted appetites take satisfaction from violence. And symbols become a substitute for the real thing.

 

This is not my original thinking. It has been stated for years and even had a slogan during the Vietnam war.. " Make love not war" was a popular tee shirt.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You could be forgiven for thinking they are stark raving MAD. IF you must have a gun in your life, perhaps you are deficient in normal potency and have found a substitute. Nev

We hear stories of Americans who lost interest in migrating to Oz when they learned they couldn't keep their military weapons. They'd feel naked and and unprotected. This obsession is fed by shock jocks who warn them about how terrible it is to live in Europe and Oz, where "the government has taken away everyone's guns".

 

 

[Marty_d]

We hear stories of Americans who lost interest in migrating to Oz when they learned they couldn't keep their military weapons. They'd feel naked and and unprotected. This obsession is fed by shock jocks who warn them about how terrible it is to live in Europe and Oz, where "the government has taken away everyone's guns".

Anyone who listens to shock jocks is just hearing their own opinions and values spouted back at them anyway. Normal people who accidentally alighted on a shock jock's station would change the channel in disgust.

 

It's going to take the public to rise up similar to civil rights protests, TARGET their representatives (not with guns) and make it clear that any who support the NRA will not be re-elected. There's an opportunity here for democrats and independents to make this a real issue and fight for the people.

 

 

[Yenn]

"There should be a special place in hell for those disgusting humans who mould gullible peoples' mindsets"

 

OK your above quote really is condemning all yanks. That is what the Yanks have been doing for many years. Just look back in history at how some of the wars started. Cuba was lies, The Phillipines was started by lies. Viet Nam another one.

 

They have never stopped lieing, in fact they openly expect all people to lie.

 

The next war will be founded on lies. North Korea is a rogue state they say. That is after USA has had 30000 troops lined up just below the 38th parallel pointing their weapons at the North Koreans. They are just behaving like the school bully, both at home individually and abroad collectively.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It's often been said that the main difference between Americans and Russians is that the Russians know they are being lied to.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Anyone who listens to shock jocks is just hearing their own opinions and values spouted back at them anyway. Normal people who accidentally alighted on a shock jock's station would change the channel in disgust.

It's going to take the public to rise up similar to civil rights protests, TARGET their representatives (not with guns) and make it clear that any who support the NRA will not be re-elected. There's an opportunity here for democrats and independents to make this a real issue and fight for the people.

I wish it were that simple, Marty. I suspect that Congress will not act until the reps themselves suffer a massacre.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I could never understand KJU's motivation to push the rest of the world so hard, until I read a recent article on it, which unlike many others had the ring of truth for me.

 

Basically it's a matter of divide and conquer. Because Trump is the POTUS, and he's such a sh*t, America's allies are much less likely to form a cohesive and solid bloc against the DPRK. This is his one chance to develop a US-city-reaching nuclear ICBM in order to bluff the US into deserting South Korea, leaving it open for takeover by his regime.

 

If Kim has a missile capable of taking out San Francisco or Los Angeles, the US will NOT intervene in a takeover of South Korea, and they won't launch a pre-emptive strike if there's any likelihood of North Korea being able to do a retaliation launch before being wiped out.

 

I'd hate to be a South Korean right now.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I wish it were that simple, Marty. I suspect that Congress will not act until the reps themselves suffer a massacre.

Like most politicians, self-interest is the prime motivator for the lawmakers of the USA. The only thing that will bring action is if the public form a bigger threat to their job than the NRA. So far in this, as in most things, apathy is the best friend of the forces of darkness.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The gun/munitions industry simply brings in too much money to be ignored is probably one key factor. Of course, if that industry wasn't there, or was de minimis, then Americans would spend their money on something else, but while so much economic impact is attributable to an industry, it will wield significant influence.

 

Looking at the criminologist's article of 6 things to know about gun ownership, the elephant in the room is not the high level of gun ownership to mass shootings per se (although I will not dispute if there are no gins, there can be no shootings). The contention is the level of gun ownership is highly correlated to mass shootings is not borne out by the numbers as this would imply a relationship (usually linear or first derivation) and the stats don't bear it out (there are always outliers). But the US at 88 guns owner per 100 people (a worry in itself) results in 78 mass shootings over whatever timescale. In the same timescale, the next 9 highest rates of ownership countries have between approx. 40% and 50% of that rate, but have on average 5% of the mass shootings (with two noticeable outliers) and the numbers of shootings against the countries with lower numbers of guns owned bob around almost randomly. So I would argue it is not a high correlation at all.. So there has to be something else.. And from what I can see, it boils down to two distinct but related factors:

 

1. The culture of the country. Spurned on by the second amendment, glorification of guns in action films and a definition of masculinity/power being crystallised through the barrel of a gun, the US has an obsession with the gun as a means of exerting and defining themselves. Coupled with a relatively non-inclusive culture and one where societal problems are materially addressed using punishment rather than evaluation and appropriateness, the US has a culture that openly accepts a gun is a necessity in addressing human issues. When someone of unstable character is undergoing severe mental stress, the culture is such that they can revert to the gun to attract attention, address perceived wrongs inflicted upon them or simply stick it to their world or get back at their world for their insecurities, etc.
    
   
2. What is the nature of gun ownership in the different countries? I can't think of many countries in the list that allow wanton ownership of guns deigned for combative or conflict situations. Semi and fully automatic weapons are not designed for the pursuit of shooting as a sport (target, clay pigeon or even hunting). Nor are many pistols that are sold or owned in the US. Forgetting about whether or not they should be banned - why do people want to buy them and in some cases amass a horde of them (as opposed to collections)? Again, it comes down to the culture. Many of these weapons as termed assault weapons, the key being in the name - we don't assault targets, clay pigeons or even deer/roos/wid pigs... we assault people.
    
   

 

 

Without knowing the rate of ownership of point 2, above, the numbers in the 6 reasons article are pretty worthless. Of course, with a .303 or even a SLR, I can commit a mass shooting if I am positioned right. It would take longer and ultimately result in less people being caught up in it.. but I can do it. But the culture of guns as an assertion of power and/or masculinity is not a prevalent factor in most society's except the US. This probably has to be addressed and will take a long time. Simply making these items illegal to possess without changing US society's attitude will drive it all underground and that's when things get even worse.

 

 

[facthunter]

USA is the land of the winner, the $ and the hairy fairy in the sky( God bless America) and the left over effect of slavery. GOD want's YOU to be rich. I can't recall that sentiment in the god book. Money enslaves the rest of the world. It's replaced colonisation. Rejects any sort of social compact by the people as evil socialism. Most currencies trade in the US $. That gives a big advantage to the US that they won't let go easily. They can't cope with Co existence with the rest of the world. They must be Top Dog. The World's Policeman and big bully. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

USA is the land of the winner, the $ and the hairy fairy in the sky( God bless America) and the left over effect of slavery. GOD want's YOU to be rich. I can't recall that sentiment in the god book. Money enslaves the rest off the world. It's replaced colonisation. Rejects any sort of social compact by the people as evil socialism. Most currencies trade in the US $. That gives a big advantage to the US that they won't let go easily. They can't cope with Co existence with the rest of the world. They must be Top Dog. The World's Policeman and big bully. Nev

So true Nev, but the US is fast losing its economic dominance. China, Russia and others now do deals in Yuan backed by gold and oil. A new global currency (Special Drawing Rights) will likely replace the US Dollar. Japan, Russia and others are playing with cryptocurrencies.

 

America will not react well to being eclipsed; with almost half the world's military spending, it will not surrender its preeminence quietly.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Um... the fact that the shooter was on the 35th floor is evident because of the broken windows (doesn't look like the windows on the Mandalay Bay open).

I didn't see any broken windows on the 4th floor, so a bit confused about where the supposed 2nd shooter shot from.

Huh !. . .you think that's gonna stop a good conspiracy theory ? I'll ask my mate from the grassy knoll what he thinks about all this tosh.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Still apt...

 

N.R.A. Defends Right to Own Politicians