Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[nomadpete]

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You mean like this?

 

You were lucky. Pure luxury.

 

We just had the horse drawn ones

 

[Old Koreelah]

Our PM has once again displayed the ignorance that characterises his government, claiming Labor's policies would force Australians to give up "grunt" cars and replace them with weak electric vehicles.

 

It seems he doesn't realise that modern electric cars have shattering acceleration that leaves current fuel cars looking as slow as old electric milk floats.

 

The 'Utey Myth' that has our politicians in its grip

 

 

[Marty_d]

Pure hypocrisy. Labor is only saying what's actually trending anyway, and the government knows it full well.

 

Now the idiots have bent over for their coal-mad QLD brethren and given the final approval for the Adani abortion.

 

Jeez I hope they get caned at the polls for that particular decision. What a pathetic legacy in the (hopefully) dying days of this rabble.

 

 

[storchy neil]

where is the power coming from to charge your batteries COAL

 

that lying shorten on the cancer scheme it is all free NOW

 

you sheep better start asking your idiot leader what is the COST his con on climate change it HAS not been costed

 

about 90% or more off the power you are using tonight is from COAL

 

I am waiting for the vilification of my opinion neil

 

 

[octave]

where is the power coming from to charge your batteries COALthat lying shorten on the cancer scheme it is all free NOW

 

you sheep better start asking your idiot leader what is the COST his con on climate change it HAS not been costed

 

about 90% or more off the power you are using tonight is from COAL

 

I am waiting for the vilification of my opinion neil

 

Engineering Explained Busts Myths: EVs Not Worse For Environment

 

 

[Marty_d]

where is the power coming from to charge your batteries COAL that lying shorten on the cancer scheme it is all free NOW

 

you sheep better start asking your idiot leader what is the COST his con on climate change it HAS not been costed

 

about 90% or more off the power you are using tonight is from COAL

 

I am waiting for the vilification of my opinion neil

Maybe you should get a new opinion.

 

Today 24 fire chiefs from around the country signed a letter begging the government to do more about climate change.

 

These are guys on the front line who have been fighting fires for years.

 

They know that fire seasons are longer, bushfires are happening where they never used to (tropical & temperate rainforests for example) and winter bushfires are the same intensity that summer ones used to be.

 

They know the reason is climate change.

 

Are you going to say that experienced firies are pulling a con?

 

In California this year 14,000 homes and 100 lives lost in huge bushfires.

 

What's the cost of that Neil?

 

When every year the bushfires get worse over here, will your eyes finally open?

 

Increasingly catastrophic weather conditions will cost more than solar, batteries, electric cars, hydro power, wind farms and all other renewable solutions combined.

 

Maybe you conservative sheep should start questioning the lies told by your head-in-the-sand leaders.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Engineering Explained Busts Myths: EVs Not Worse For Environment

I can't wait to own an electric car, not just for the efficiency, but for the simplicity.

 

I spent most of yesterday trying to locate a fault under the bonnet of my wife's car. Over the years I've dismantled many an engine, but this one beat me. Under that forest of pipes, tubes, wires, relays, fuses, capacitors, servos, pumps, filters, belts, pulleys, heat exchangers and reservoirs- is a modern internal combustion engine, a marvel of engineering efficiency and reliability- until it isn't.

 

 

[octave]

where is the power coming from to charge your batteries COAL

The video link I posted points out that even if an electric car is only charged by coal-fired power plant it is still more environmentally sound than internal combustion, including mining and construction of batteries and vehicle right through to disposal.

 

If you average out between states about 85% comes from coal oil and gas. In places like Tasmania often they will for a time be generating 100% from renewables. The ratio of fossil fuel power production is only going in one direction, I know it makes you angry and unhappy but that is how it is.

 

An internal combustion engine is at its cleanest when it leaves the factory and as it ages gets less clean and efficient. An EV is as clean as the fuel it is charged from and this changes. An EV can be charged from coal, gas nuclear wind solar tidal biomass etc. It is not tied to one particular fuel. I read an article recently warning that Australia only has 3 weeks of fuel supply at any one time. A disruption to that supply would be a disaster. EVs are much more versatile.

 

Something that is conveniently forgotten his how much electricity it takes to refine each litre of fuel

 

 

I don't believe that I or anyone regularly "vilifies" your opinion. I think the problem comes when opinion is confused with facts. I always attempt to argue a case with facts and references. I think if you read back some of your postings you may see that they are usually angry and do attack other people rather than contest ideas with facts.

 

 

[Diddy Pilot]

where is the power coming from to charge your batteries COALthat lying shorten on the cancer scheme it is all free NOW

 

you sheep better start asking your idiot leader what is the COST his con on climate change it HAS not been costed

 

about 90% or more off the power you are using tonight is from COAL

 

I am waiting for the vilification of my opinion neil

Hmmm whilst you have been under a rock, over the last ten years, I fitted solar panels to my house, then realising I was generating enough electricity to power all my needs and feed enough back into the grid to be making money. I did some research and ended up fitting more panels on a separate battery feed system. This battery ensures that whenever my wife or daughter need to charge their cars (yes I still have a diesel ute) we can charge their cars, usually overnight. and I still get a credit back each quarter from the electricity company which I then use to pay my elderly mother's electricity bill.

 

We in Australia are in a much better position than most to benefit from such technologies.

 

When I started down this ecologically sound approach to supplying my power needs the technology was new, more expensive and considered radical. If I was to do it today it would cost half as much as prices come down as more people go down this path.

 

If instead of claiming that coal is the only answer people looked at things differently they would realise we only use coal now because of choice and ignorance. If you want to claim that coal is needed for immediate surge capacity, look into battery storage and the community battery systems now being installed.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Coals out in the UK.

 

BUT people still have open WOOD fires.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Litespeed]

Open fires are very inefficient but a quality slow combustion design can be very efficient and have low emissions.

 

Add a water jacket and you get hot water and lots of it. The best designs are multi burn chambers that have large mass and can even duct water to small radiators around the home or blown air. And naturally you can add a oven and hotplates ala kitchen stove.

 

A thermal mass rocket stove is a good example if designed well, can be a extremely efficient converter of wood to heat with very low emissions.

 

And it is using carbon that is in the earths carbon cycle. So its net effect on climate change is zero. Its the energy sources that rely on carbon Long buried that have fubared the climate.

 

No I am not advocating all should be burning trees for heat. But it can be great in certain circumstances.

 

Naturally we should be planting billions of trees for the sake of the planet and local environment.

 

Since trees suck the most carbon in their early years then selective logging and planting of many dozens of trees for every one felled, you can actually reduce carbon dioxide in the air.

 

But please no cutting of the oldies with holes etc. Animals call that home..

 

 

[Litespeed]

I, many moons ago was a chimney sweeper and even built fires of many designs, restored ancient stoves etc.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Litespeed,

 

Maybe you can tell me the reason for constructing an arched opening below the floor level of a brick chimney?

 

I noticed this whilst exploring ruins dating back to early 1900's. This extra archway was not an airway to the fireplace chamber, but was the same size as the fireplace and was a foot or so below the floor of the building.

 

Sorry about the thread drift, but this has puzzled me.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Perhaps, Pete, it's for ash removal.

 

My home's old Rayburn slow combustion stove produces quite a lot of ash. In the cooler months when we light the fire, the afternoon ritual is to use a custom-built tray to scoop out a couple of litres of loose ash, which I then take outside and spread all over the place to return some nutrients. We then use the same tray to pick up some leaf litter from under our eucalyptus trees. This kindling starts the fire, which burns wood cut from branches which have fallen from the trees I planted for this purpose in early 1980s.

 

Carbon cost: about zero, and we get to remove some of the ground fuel to reduce the intensity of a wildfire.

 

 

[nomadpete]

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There has to be a logical reason for the builder to go to the trouble of making a brick arch below the floor. It is inaccessible (once the floor exists), has never had a fire in it, and has no passage through to the chimney. Most of the chimneys on Maria Island are like this, so I assume it was once a common practice.

 

[Bruce]

At the farm, I wanted to have the hot water made from a solar heater in the summer and a jacket on the combustion heater for the winter. We have unlimited firewood , at a cost of about $30 pa in wood getting gear wear and tear.

 

Alas, the cost of doing this was about $6,000 compared with an instant gas hot water heater at $900 plus about $50 pa for the gas.

 

That's why I think green stuff is an indulgence for rich people.

 

 

[Bruce]

But here's my main gripe. Farmers like us could each remove many tons of carbon from the air by charring stubble and timber. If this were done everywhere, the planet could yet be saved. The money to pay for this would have to come from the world's military budgets.... fat chance huh.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

At the farm, I wanted to have the hot water made from a solar heater in the summer and a jacket on the combustion heater for the winter. We have unlimited firewood , at a cost of about $30 pa in wood getting gear wear and tear. Alas, the cost of doing this was about $6,000 compared with an instant gas hot water heater at $900 plus about $50 pa for the gas.

 

That's why I think green stuff is an indulgence for rich people.

Rich people? I disagree, Bruce.

 

I was also put off by high prices quoted for renewable infrastructure, so bought an old SC stove for $400, a used heater tank for $100 and built my own solar water heater panel for $200 (using discarded glass panels from public phone boxes).

 

They've been almost maintenance-free over thirty-odd years, saving us lots of money we didn't have.

 

 

[Bruce]

Good onyer, old K. Some people reckon you and I are rich on account of owning aeroplanes. If only they knew huh.

 

You are right in that I could have done better with a diy setup, and I reckon the hot water would feel better as a result. But at the time, I had too much other stuff to do building the house. And there are new regulations aimed at preventing incompetents ( children and geriatrics and mentally deficient ) from scalding themselves. I would have ignored those regulations if I did a diy setup.

 

At the moment, I am considering making a hot water storage tank, using a jacket with waste wool insulation, and heating the water with a solar heater and a combustion heater coil of copper pipe. If this looks like actually happening, I would like to get your comments on the design ideas.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... there are new regulations aimed at preventing incompetents ( children and geriatrics and mentally deficient ) from scalding themselves...

I built before those rules, but it's a valid point: my hot water can get scalding hot, so I installed a quiet fan to push air past a de-insulated section of the tank. It keeps the water from being too hot and warms the bathroom.

 

... At the moment, I am considering making a hot water storage tank, using a jacket with waste wool insulation, and heating the water with a solar heater and a combustion heater coil of copper pipe. If this looks like actually happening, I would like to get your comments on the design ideas.

I've seen some crook designs, where the pipes weren't large enough or the bends too tight.

 

A colleague had a Beasley with a heat exchanger coil in the tank and it performed poorly.

 

I got lucky with my design, which uses 19mm copper pipe to allow the water to circulate naturally.

 

In overcast weather when the solar is useless, we burn 5-7kg of firewood in the old Rayburn. The wetback is awesome, it heats the whole 230 litre tank in about an hour.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

A Rhodesian boiler sits about 3 m above ground but the fire is tended at ground level. Plentiful hot water gravity fed. But you have to have a very cheap employee to feed it!

 

 

[Litespeed]

[ATTACH=full]4011[/ATTACH]There has to be a logical reason for the builder to go to the trouble of making a brick arch below the floor. It is inaccessible (once the floor exists), has never had a fire in it, and has no passage through to the chimney. Most of the chimneys on Maria Island are like this, so I assume it was once a common practice.

Ah, that is for the slow roasting of drop bears.

 

No seriously, I all depends and is hard to say without seeing the building including its substructure before it became a ruin. Debris can make it hard to tell what the real floor structure and what was underneath originally.

 

Some were to slowly radiate heat into the floor for heat and to keep the flooring dry, many had cob floors- mud basically. It also helps in keeping the moisture seeping through the soil from around and under the building. Same goes for those built on piers with a wooden floor, it keeps under the floor dry and warms it slowly.

 

That's a educated guess.

 

Another possible reason is to ensure the cool cellar in the floor does not freeze in winter. Many old homes had a cool cellar in the floor in the kitchen or close to the fire. It helped regulate the temp for the food stores and provide a low moisture environment.

 

I have seen this setup before.

 

I would expect it is a throw back from the English times exported to Australia and adapted. The building of fire systems with dual use and even pumped water/air heating goes all the way back to the Romans who were experts and refined it to high art.

 

I will look into further and see what I can find.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Hot water jackets and coils are a godsend in the cold but beware.

 

The water is very hot and can even create superheated steam which can be extremely dangerous.

 

The same precautions of a electric or gas boiler apply but your potential heat is much higher. It must be done with proper design and relief valves that can be accessed and serviced.

 

Getting good natural circulation is the key, hence most have a tank in the ceiling for sufficient gravity draw and temp differential. Long term a copper tank is by far the best.

 

Don't be scared to do it, just be sensible and use best practice.

 

As a side note, a runaway boiler of any type can destroy a home when it explodes and goes off like a actual rocket. Good example on mythbusters.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Brick arches under load-bearing structures are to give strength while minimising materials costs. Common in 19th C steam plant.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hot water jackets and coils are a godsend in the cold but beware.The water is very hot and can even create superheated steam which can be extremely dangerous.

 

The same precautions of a electric or gas boiler apply but your potential heat is much higher. It must be done with proper design and relief valves that can be accessed and serviced...

Good point, LS. I replaced my relief valve with a copper pipe paralleling the chimney. The supply tank is up the hill, at a level about a metre below the top of the vent pipe. When the tank is near full, a few seconds after you shut off a hot water tap, a spurt of water onto the roof tells me the vent is clear.

 

Haven't hear that for while...