Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[octave]

n important point to remember Pete,. . . NOTHING is 'Factual'. . .what we see is the 'OPINIONS' of those who are deemed to be 'EXPERTS' in their various fields . . .nothing more. Many 'EXPERT' opinions and details pronounced as undeniable 'FACTS' are dissembled later by other 'EXPERTS' with equally compelling data to 'Prove' their case . . .such has it been since time immemorial. . . it is an ongoing evolution, which, in turn, collects it's groupies. . .

Scientists don't tend to use the word "fact" Science does not provide the right answer it provides the best answer given the data available at the time. The fact that experts modify their pronouncements is not a failing but is a good thing. New data is uncovered and theories are modified to incorporate new evidence. This does not mean that experts deal only in opinion.

 

Germ theory is not merely opinion, the published VNE speed of the aircraft I fly is not merely opinion, you could argue whether or not it should be a few knots faster or slower but it is based on evidence which of course could and should be modified in the light of new evidence. If you believe expert evidence is totally unreliable how do you cope when you go to the doctor? Of course, it is right and proper to get a second and perhaps third opinion but to believe that your doctor can only give you an opinion which has no more validity than your gut is rather alarming.

 

Back to electric cars, I assume you think that Elon Musk has made a colossal mistake buy building his Gigfactories (I think Nisan are going to build one as well) Do you think he came up with this idea and did not even consider if the raw materials are available. I am imagining he at least did some research but perhaps you are right and we will know this when these factories fail due to lack of lithium. If this does happen you will look like a perceptive genius.

 

In terms of the whole anti-expert thing, I am amused by those who say "we listened to experts and where did it get us" in fact someone some time ago someone said exactly that somewhere on this forum, my usual answer is yes where did it get us, besides the extra 20 years of life expectancy the fact that most births end happily the fact that I can talk to people all over the world (as I am now) the fact that I work less physically hard than my father had to for a higher standard of living. etc etc.

 

Whether or not we end up being transported in battery-powered cars or hydrogen fuel cell cars or some other power source yet to be discovered the one thing we do know is petroleum is a finite resource (as is lithium - finite but not rare). Electric vehicles are not a plot by leftie beardy sandal wearing vegans.

 

 

[spacesailor]

So : "Electric vehicles are not a plot by leftie beardy sandal wearing vegans."

 

Why are they pushing them down our throat's?

 

A bit like the NBN Monopoly,

 

If it's as bad as being reported, We're better off without it!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

Petrol might run out.

 

Safe gas (LNG) should have been the foremost Car fuel in this country,

 

But someone wanted bigger profits for themselves.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

So : "Electric vehicles are not a plot by leftie beardy sandal wearing vegans."Why are they pushing them down our throat's?

 

A bit like the NBN Monopoly,

 

If it's as bad as being reported, We're better off without it!.

 

spacesailor

Who is pushing electric vehicles down anyone's throats? Although some countries are mandating a move away from internal combustion engines the lead time is quite long. You do not have to buy an EV although they are becoming (not quite there yet) the economically rational choice. A few years from now you will still be able to buy an internal combustion vehicle if you are willing to pay more upfront and also for running and maintenance but that will be your economic choice.

 

 

[spacesailor]

You mean Both vehicles will have the Same taxes & rego, (unlike other country s), and no Free power for either!.

 

The first electric cars were not Teslas, milk floats or dodgems.

 

The first one appeared in 1884, invented by Briton Thomas Parker, a year before the first car equipped with an internal combustion engine (ICE).

 

And like the steamer's they had to pay more for rego, as it went on weight.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

You mean Both vehicles will have the Same taxes & rego, (unlike other country s), and no Free power for either!.The first electric cars were not Teslas, milk floats or dodgems.

 

The first one appeared in 1884, invented by Briton Thomas Parker, a year before the first car equipped with an internal combustion engine (ICE).

 

And like the steamer's they had to pay more for rego, as it went on weight.

 

spacesailor

 

Taxing vehicles by weight could seem arbitrary but of course, it is based on the damage done and the cost on other taxpayers. Weight causes damage to roads, therefore, those who contribute most to the damage should contribute more. Likewise, those who cause more damage to the atmosphere ought to pay more.

 

If Evs are a stupid idea they will die out, society can only subsidies an economically foolish idea for so long. I do not know whether EVs will become the norm, it could be hydrogen-powered vehicles or something not yet invented but whatever the next 100 years of personal transport will be powered by the one thing we all surely agree on is that it cannot be crude oil refined into petrol. We NEED this crude oil to make plastics, industrial chemicals, and drugs. We cannot afford to burn it, are great grandchildren will think we were morons when we did not burn this miraculous substance.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Taxing vehicles by weight could seem arbitrary but of course, it is based on the damage done and the cost on other taxpayers. Weight causes damage to roads, therefore, those who contribute most to the damage should contribute more. Likewise, those who cause more damage to the atmosphere ought to pay more.

If Evs are a stupid idea they will die out, society can only subsidies an economically foolish idea for so long. I do not know whether EVs will become the norm, it could be hydrogen-powered vehicles or something not yet invented but whatever the next 100 years of personal transport will be powered by the one thing we all surely agree on is that it cannot be crude oil refined into petrol. We NEED this crude oil to make plastics, industrial chemicals, and drugs. We cannot afford to burn it, are great grandchildren will think we were morons when we did not burn this miraculous substance.

And as you pointed out in a previous post, refining oil takes a hell of a lot of electricity too.

 

The internal combustion engine is a very complicated way to get power from refined oil to your wheels. Yes EV's are new so they're expensive, so were plasma TV's (I remember seeing one of the first big ones with a price tag of $40,000 on it.) If governments subsidise a little now to prime the pump, they'll get cheaper as they get more common and guess what, it's not lost money as they're helping meet their emission reduction targets at the same time. Better use of public funds than the LNP's "Direct Action", which in other words is throwing money at the big emitters for no noticeable benefit.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Road wear is not only a weight problem,

 

But also the "Hoon", burn-outs, drifting, as well as crashes with fire does a lot more damage than mere weight!.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

Road wear is not only a weight problem,But also the "Hoon", burn-outs, drifting, as well as crashes with fire does a lot more damage than mere weight!.

 

spacesailor

If the hoon does a burnout for more than 50 metres he'll have no tyres left. Heavy vehicles have no such distance limit...

 

 

[spacesailor]

I've never heard of a trucky wasting expensive tyres like the hoons do,

 

at a grand each, I couldn't see many owners forking out for ruined tyre's .

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

My point was, hoons may affect a short stretch of road but in the end they're driving a vehicle the same weight as everyone else for 99.99% of the time. Whereas a heavy vehicle is a heavy vehicle.

 

I'm not suggesting that truckies do burnouts.

 

 

[spacesailor]

You are suggesting that, it's heavy haulage causing the problems,

 

Tyre roll across the tarmac and only press down, if road is built correctly it will not crumble into pot holes, like my local road that disintegrates after every rain.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Look at model planes. Electric planes have taken over without any coercion at all.

 

I hated how oil from the glo-plug motor soiled the nice clean framework, so I was an enthusiastic convert. And now I'm looking at getting an electric-boosted pushbike. One of the things helping make this happen is how the South Australian government has made it legal to ride your bike on footpaths, so you don't have to get killed by drunken lawyers in their 4wd's every time.

 

And chainsaws are much better now with battery electrics.

 

So electric cars for the missus to take shopping will happen soon and its great. But trucks and tractors? I don't think so.

 

 

[Bruce]

Space, the figures I saw at engineering school were that a truck was equal to 1000 cars in damaging the road. Most damage happens after wet weather when the edges of the paved zone are soft underneath.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Electric planes have taken over without any coercion at all."

 

Except I can't fly my IC motor plane (model & HB LoL), at the local flying field.

 

Next: My electric chain saw last two small branches before the ring-gear teeth fell off.

 

&: Most out back trucks drive on the centre line, the cars chew up the edge, when they have to get out of the way of a roadtrain.

 

Just an observation

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Space, you need to try out some of the new electric chainsaws. They have improved lots and I thought like you from my experience with a little battery chainsaw.

 

 

[spacesailor]

240volt so it would have more kick (torque)

 

Tried to get a new part from states, while people where at Oshkosh,

 

Over $80 in aus, $18 over there.

 

I'll put it in the bin "One day" LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

I just got a new EGO 56 volt chainsaw and it works great. No I don't get a commission. I read that the Stihl is better.

 

 

[facthunter]

My daughter has a new Husqvarna electric Mower and I have the 1957 Mayfair (Victa) my mother bought new, back. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I bought a 240v mains mower, but gave it to my grand-daughter who gave up on the time it took to mow a Small lawn compered to a full sized petrol mower.

 

No thought of returning it and my long extension lead, she put both out for the cleanup.

 

Replaced the electric mower with an Aldi power ( self driven) mower, for the wife. (good thinking there)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[nomadpete]

We have numerous petrol mowers but my wife likes (second to the zero turn for large areas) her 'chick mower'. The nice quiet electric mower that starts every time you pull the litter lever. Never needs an oil change, never has problems with stale fuel.

 

 

[facthunter]

Having a 240 volt electric lead is not a good idea. Dangerous. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I gave my wife a mower, but she wore it out, so had to buy her another one.

 

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[nomadpete]

Having a 240 volt electric lead is not a good idea. Dangerous. Nev

People have been saying that ever since Edison gave it so much bad press. I'd suggest that although electricity has been proven to be capable of hurting humans, it had also been demonstrated too often, that petrol has seriously injured too many kids. Probably (guessing here, must ask my uncle google.) Petrol kept for mowers has caused more injury than electric mowers have. It's not easy to cut the cord with an electric mower, and even if one did manage to do so, its highly unlikely to result in electric shock. (Unless the operator picked up the severed cable and pressed the end onto their skin.)

 

 

[facthunter]

There has been quite a few (early types perhaps) but people did get electrocuted. Modern stuff is double insulated with earth leakage protection etc but cutting the cable isn't very safe. Wet grass will conduct electricity. 240 Volts is about the most unsafe potential for conducting through the body. I've had about 4 or 5 electric events and nothing but a heap of shocks (50 cycles /sec) through me, that feels pretty ordinary, but I consider myself lucky. With some, the heart is affected straight away and unless you get restarted quickly it's over. I lost 3 friends from electric shock mostly tradies working under houses. I helped wire houses and did lift work as a youth. The wires were in steel conduits then. Nev