Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[kgwilson]

Within 2 to 3 years the lower end of the BEV range will be as cheap or cheaper than the ICE equivalent. These cars (eg. Tesla 2, BYD EA1 Dolphin) will have over 500km range, 5-10 minute charging and 1 million km battery life all with virtually no maintenance required. Why then would you even contemplate buying a new ICE car. The ICE UTE market will dry up too. The Tesla Cybertruck is not even in production yet but has over 1.2 million advance orders. 

[onetrack]

The manufacturers will cease providing spares for IC-engined vehicles, and that will then be the death knell for them. This will happen simply because the manufacturers will scrap the tooling used for making those spare parts, as they will need to install new tooling to manufacture a different range of components for EV's.

 

Manufacturers of transmissions, rear axles, IC engine components, and related companies such as muffler and exhaust systems manufacturers, will simply disappear - and businesses wrecking older vehicles for parts and components will flourish. 

 

Fuel prices will be an interesting area. I believe oil companies and fuel distributors will keep prices as low as possible, to ensure that the widespread introduction of EV's is slowed.

[facthunter]

Vehicles aren't kept that long anyhow. Supply-demand is the price setter for petroleum .Who really knows in which direction it will go but ultimately the markets will be less. Aviation is the area where an alternative is hard to find but fuel can be synthesised fairly easily for essential uses. The conventional car is service intensive compared to electric and that's why they are not worth owning outside of a warrantee. Labour costs become critical in continued use but minimalised in the original build by more robotics.. Nev

[spacesailor]

Doe,s that make me an Exception !.

This one Delica 19 years ( l think ) , last one only 5 years, would have been longer But, l couldent bend enough to get in or out, ( crook hip  ) so needed a taller door, situp type.

spacesailor

[facthunter]

You have  got more chance of keeping a pre 60's car running for a long time than the later stuff.. Parts availability is the big factor. The modern parts are designed to be easy to make in large quantities often at a cost per unit equal  to material plus say 20 %. Complex shapes of neoprene and Plastics that can never be economically made aftermarket and high tensile steel pressings that cannot be straightened or rewelded. if damaged. . New models have limited parts interchangeability with previous models or others in the range..  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

On 10/07/2021 at 3:35 PM, facthunter said:

You have  got more chance of keeping a pre 60's car running for a long time than the later stuff..

Very true, Nev. Tnose who keep very old vehicles will find them pretty basic and easy to repair and maintain. My Lada Niva had a crank handle, which was easy to use.

Former French colonies across west Africa are able to keep ancient Peugeots going decades after they’ve disappeared from Europe.

On 10/07/2021 at 3:35 PM, facthunter said:

Complex shapes of neoprene and Plastics that can never be economically made aftermarket…

Maybe true, but a whole new support industry would arise, using technologies like 3-D printing. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Latest news (work based newsfeed so can't copy it here)..

 

UK has announced by 2050 it will pull out all stops to ban ICE based tucks and other commercial vehicles! Interesting times..

[pmccarthy]

2050=not my problem!

[Dax]

Have a 91 1htd landcruiser, had since the mid 90's and got 780000klms out of it, then rebuild the engine so has another 700000klms of life. Worked out even though it cost me close to $15000 to rebuilt still saved me money over buying a new one and my neighbour has an 86 Sahara 12ht, which she rebuilt a few years ago. Both run on veggie oil which has reduced running costs dramatically, but still have to change oil filters and lots of drive train maintenance over the years.

 

Would buy an EV instantly if had the money, but they are way off my price range presently. Also range is a problem if you do a lot of travel in rural Aus, have been hoping they would come up with low price long range Ev's. Buying the long range tesla is just too expensive and they only have range of just over 600klms. New battery technology and super capacitors seem to be the next step and it looks like the chinese are getting close to that, with releasing soon an EV with a range of 1000klms. In another year or so, we will probably see a number of new ev's with long range and this Drive link is a god start.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/chinas-electric-suv-offering-1000km-of-range/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=acm&utm_content=article_4&utm_medium=partner

[Dax]

On 10/07/2021 at 12:30 PM, facthunter said:

Aviation is the area where an alternative is hard to find but fuel can be synthesised fairly easily for essential uses.

That's changing fast, there are numerous Electric plans in the pipeline and airlines are seriously looking at them. United and other airline have already committed to buying them for short haul flights, something that has become very expensive with fuel and maintenance costs. Electric short haul planes, will dramatically reduce airfares for regional people and very soon, long haul. Four hundred klms puts a lot of towns with small runways in the picture and all you need at these airports is solar, wind and recharging facilities.

 

Theoretically, they could fly a couple of thousand klms in a day with 3 stops. Recharge whilst loading and unloading and off you go. It would also reduce the cost of fast freight between cities and rural areas, taking more trucks of the road and reducing time and costs. Just need to have a big lotto win and buy a few for  travel between Tas and Melbourne, or anywhere with recharge facilities and you can bet as battery system become even lighter and denser, add solar cells to the plans wings and body and the door would open for full electric flight. Get a big plane above the clouds and you could probably fly a very long way extremely cheaply with solar cells covering the plane.

 

https://www.traveller.com.au/united-airlines-to-buy-100-electric-planes-for-short-routes-h1x5mr

 

"United Airlines and one of its regional carriers each plan to buy up to 100 small electric planes that could be used on short-haul United flights.

The 19-seat planes could be used to fly passengers up to 400 kilometres by the end of the decade, United said on Tuesday morning."

Edited July 15, 2021 by Dax

[Jerry_Atrick]

13 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

2050=not my problem!

Probably not mine, either...

 

But I just noticed the typo - it is 2040, not 2050 they intend to bring it in..

 

 

10 hours ago, Dax said:

Both run on veggie oil which has reduced running costs dramatically, but still have to change oil filters and lots of drive train maintenance over the years.

Yes... that UK government decided that it would pander to the oil companies... It started to become popular here, too. But, the oil companies kicked up a stink and the UK government found a way to ban it withuot changing the law - food stuffs are not VAT-able (GST-able) nor do they include the other taxes that go into fuel.. There are big fines and even jail for driving on a public road without having paid the correct tax on fuel.. this was brought in because there is an agricultural exemption on all fuel taxes, but farmers were using this fuel for their personal vehicles as well. So, the government issued a warning to anyone continuing to use veggie oil - the tax isn't paid, it is deemed a fuel for transport if used in  a car - you run big risks as a result - almost stopped it overnight.

8 hours ago, Dax said:

That's changing fast, there are numerous Electric plans in the pipeline and airlines are seriously looking at them.

Yes.. there are also hydrogen powered planes in the pipeline as well.. For short routes, airlines will have a good choice going forward. In addition, hyperloop rail may derail a lot of longer trans-continental (e.g. across Europe, or across Australia, or across Americas, etc) flying as well over time (probably not my lifetime) short haul routes... But that is a very long way off.

[Jerry_Atrick]

If only Aus would invest more on renewables for electricity generation:

 

 

[red750]

Hyundai now promoting their Ioniq EV, but it's $55-$60,000 for a car the size of a Mazda 323. Click here.

[Old Koreelah]

I haven’t followed this thread very closely (there’s a limit to how much bad news I can take) so don’t know if the following has already been posted.

This is the most accurate and concise summary of Australia’s Electric Vehicle policy:

 

https://thedriven.io/2021/04/28/honest-government-ad-takes-aim-at-ev-misinformation/

[red750]

I received this in an email from a friend - not sure where it's from, he didn't say.

 

 

EV WIN FOR ST BAKER

 

EXCLUSIVE
Nick Toscano

 

Trevor St Baker: committed to 300 fast-charging stations across Australia.

Energy billionaire Trevor St Baker’s electric vehicle-charging company Evie Networks and fuel giant Ampol are among the winners for federal grants to boost the roll-out of fast-charging stations across the country. Energy billionaire Trevor St Baker’s electric vehicle-charging company Evie Networks and fuel giant Ampol are among the winning bidders for the first round of Commonwealth grants to boost the roll-out of fastcharging stations across the country.

The Morrison government today will announce the five recipients of the first round of $25 million under the Australian Renewable Energy Agency’s ‘‘Future Fuels Fund’’, aimed at increasing charging infrastructure in the hope of driving a greater uptake of electric vehicles.

Governments have begun investing more in supporting the greater development of electric carcharging infrastructure as ‘‘range anxiety’’ – the fear of being stranded and unable to recharge – is a commonly cited barrier to a greater uptake of zero-emissions vehicles.

Evie Networks, owned by the St Baker Energy Innovation Fund, will receive $8.85 million, the biggest share of the funding pool.

Mr St Baker, whose energy interests also include the Vales Point coal-fired power plant in NSW, said Evie would use the funds to develop 158 charging stations for electric vehicles (EVs) in every capital city.

‘‘We are now contracted and committed to 300 fast-charging stations across Australia within the next two years,’’ he said.

‘‘In the highways, we are building chargers that can supply up to 300 kilometres in 10 minutes ... in the cities, the standard is chargers that are between 50 and 80 kilometres in 10 minutes.’’

Other recipients of the funding include ASX-listed fuel supplier Ampol with $7.05 million, French utilities giant Engie with $6.85 million, Chargefox with $1.4 million and Electric Highways Tasmania with $400,000.

Australia lags many countries in the transition to battery-powered cars (less than 1 per cent of Australia’s new car sales are EVs) but power companies and automakers say falling battery costs mean a tipping point is fast-approaching.

The Victorian government has set a target for electric vehicles to account for 50 per cent of new sales by 2030 and subsidies of up to $3000 for buyers, while NSW last month also announced a $3000 upfront discount and said it would waive stamp duty for buyers.

Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor said the government was funding the infrastructure needed to help motorists embrace the increasing range of technologies available.

‘‘The government is focused on ensuring Australians can drive their preferred choice of vehicle – be that petrol, diesel, hydrogen or electricpowered,’’ Mr Taylor said.

‘‘Projects funded under the Future Fuels Fund will significantly expand Australia’s fast-charging network, providing broader coverage, reducing range anxiety and minimising blackspots.’’

Evie Networks said it placed a multimillion-dollar order for the supply of fast-charging equipment with Tritium, Mr St Baker’s majority-owned EV charging manufacturer. Brisbane-based Tritium, the world’s second largest fastcharger, is set to list on America’s NASDAQ stock exchange.

Mr St Baker welcomed this week’s ARENA funding announcement, but called on Canberra to make transport electrification a far greater priority.

‘‘This small Future Fuels fund is a very small outlay to try and incentivise competing EV fast-charging networks,’’ he said.

 

[spacesailor]

" Evie would use the funds to develop 158 charging stations for electric vehicles (EVs) in every capital city. "

Seem's like throwing money away !, as most city dwellers will be able to recharge at their home.

See if ANY one will put a charger on the East - West roads ' Plenty Hwy - Buchanan Hwy.

I passed a large collection of helicopters there, ( on the Buchanan Hwy ) & I have learnt, it is the Famous ' Victoria River Downs ' cattle station.

Great having a 4X4 Camper. Be nicer flying thou . ( can people call in on working stations ?. )

spacesailor

 

[red750]

Our local shopping centre has a recharging bay, and I can't recall seeing it in use.

[spacesailor]

I will ask my neighbor, who has a EV, if they Ever charge their car away from home !.

Anything for a conversation.  LoL

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

Here's my $900 electric bike. I really like it.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Why is there not a home-use hydrogen generator on the market? I can imagine one which uses solar-electric panels and a wind-generator. It would cost a few grand and keep your vehicle in hydrogen thereafter. The source of the hydrogen would be electrolysed water.  Maybe granny could use the oxygen too.

[octave]

38 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Why is there not a home-use hydrogen generator on the market? I can imagine one which uses solar-electric panels and a wind-generator. It would cost a few grand and keep your vehicle in hydrogen thereafter. The source of the hydrogen would be electrolysed water.  Maybe granny could use the oxygen too.

LAVO™   HYDROGEN   BATTERY   SYSTEM

[octave]

45 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Here's my $900 electric bike. I really like it.

 

Here is my trusty steed.

 

[onetrack]

The Chinese are now trying to score in the small earthmover market by producing a little electric front-end loader. The problem is, the regular ICE Chinese front-end loaders are junk, with poor quality, poor backup, no manuals (well, nothing more than a few pages in Chinglish), no parts support - and brand names that change on a monthly basis, depending on whether or not the Chairman has ordered that factory to stop producing FEL's, and produce toasters instead.

 

The Chinese might be making a big jump into supplying all our electric requirements, but they still have their age-old problems of poor QC, low quality parts substitution, business corruption, lack of proper manuals, lack of good customer support, and a lack of understanding of what it means to build up a brand name.

 

They've named these little electric earthmovers, "Everun". Unfortunately, one can soon see them becoming jeeringly nicknamed, "Never-run". 

 

https://www.grays.com/lot/0001-9024835/earth-moving-and-mobile-plant/2021-unused-brumby-battery-electric-articulated-wheel-loader

[octave]

Caterpillar unveils an all-electric 26-ton excavator with a giant 300 kWh battery pack

 

JCB Electric Excavator / Mini Digger

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I liked the look of the battery-pack trailer which would be quickly swapped over and it would give electric cars interstate capability.