Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[Old Koreelah]

6 hours ago, old man emu said:

In my , old, local area  new residential buildings have over the past few years been required to install water tanks to harvest rainwater. How difficult would it be to require each dwelling to have solar panels, and for real estate developers to install batteries throughout their developments. Just look at southwest Sydney. Acres and acres of land is being turned into residential estates. At least half of that acreage will be under the shadow of house rooves…

At last! Some common sense. This is what I was advocating in the early days of the Howard government, when our myopic PM laughed at the idea of solar. He claimed we’d have to cover an area the size of Greater Sydney with solar panels… Which is exactly what is happening!

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said:

our myopic PM

That's a description that fits most of our PMs - on both sides. We tend to think the label only describes Conservatives, but that is only because we have been ruled by them for most of the history of the Commonwealth of Australia. Their lack of what the rest of us call "common sense" is no doubt due to the fact that our PMs have for the most part been the product of the legal system. And we all know that legal practitioners lie in Cloud Cuckoo Land, a place that only occasionally brushes against the World we mere mortals inhabit. 

 

When those who have lived outside the miser's counting house gain government and try to introduce benefits for the good of the people whose sweat creates the sources of wealth, the misers come out of their vaults and prophesy the end of civilisation.  

[kgwilson]

The real problem is Political donations. Both sides get plenty from the fossil fuel industry & need their support or they won't be re-elected. They don't give a flying fig about the future beyond getting re-elected though they pretend to. They are still approving new coal mines. How does that equate with Net Zero by 2050. Meanwhile business with backing from banks are forging ahead with renewable energy projects at an alarming pace in spite of the dickheads we call politicians.

 

12 months ago I never thought I'd be able to afford an electric car. I now know that my next car (barring me falling off the perch) will be electric and most likely Chinese. That sector in China expanded by 286% in the last year. BYD is phasing out its ICE production altogether & of course many of the other players are EV only. The problem for the Chinese manufacturers is that local demand has outstripped their supply so there are very few available for export.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, kgwilson said:

The real problem is Political donations.

Whatever happened to things like a few per cent of union fees went to the Labor Party to run it?  I suppose that since a large number of workers don't join unions, that source of finance has withered. They don't join unions, but happily accept the pay and conditions that unions have wrung from the greedy, gnarled fingers of the employers.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Took a look at this youtube video which pitted an ICE v. Electric car in a run between Sydney and Melbourne. I am guessing they were provided by Hyundai and as they are motoring journos, I am thinking it is not all that true a comp as to which is quicker between the origin and destination, but they did say that they didn't quite get near the fast charge rate that they should have. Interesting though:

 

 

The compare this, albeit for a much longer distance with less population and undoubtedly lest charging infrastructure (start at  2:40 in as the rest is just blah):

 

 

[spacesailor]

BUT

I feel a bit daft on my ev, trundling down the road on my red ' mobility scooter ' now l have a nice new hip.

But

It,s only a single seater, the wife has to ' jog ' beside me.

Not good for a romantic afternoon. LoL

spacesailor

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

BUT

I feel a bit daft on my ev, trundling down the road on my red ' mobility scooter ' now l have a nice new hip.

But

It,s only a single seater, the wife has to ' jog ' beside me.

Not good for a romantic afternoon. LoL

spacesailor

You've got a lap don't you?  Problem solved.  And romantic.

[spacesailor]

NOT !.

With a crook leg.

BUT

I had two great grand kids on it with me. LoL

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

Well here on the Wimmera farm I don't see electric tractors coming soon, but I sure like my electric bike and the wife likes her electric ride-on mower. I'm on the side of the optimists here about renewables.

Back in Adelaide, the electric bike was limited to 30 km/hr and you had to be turning the pedals for the electric assist to turn on. Otherwise it was not a legal bike, it was an electric motorbike and needed rego etc. It was still a good thing and I frequently went shopping with it.

If we get a second car, it will be electric I think. It will be powered with solar panels and a wind-generator. ( 17 panels to power a car )

In a couple of years time, the electricity here at the farm will probably come from offshore near Portland, where a really big wind generating farm is planned. Unless we beat them with our own stuff first. The electric energy from the car battery  would run lights and tv for the house on still nights, with the wood fire doing the heating.

It is wonderfully liberating to do your own, as I discovered with the water and sewage. And cheaper too, as there is no corruption to pay for.

But, bugger it, hot water has defeated me because the bottled gas system was $1000 compared to solar plus wetback on the fireplace, which was $6000. Free hot water is wonderful too.

I'm wondering if the Portland wind farm is designed to provide for the Aluminium smelter there.  Imagine if Australia could export clean and green aluminium huh. So what if the plant didn't operate 24/7? Surely the cost per tonne is what matters. Yep it may need some revision of our workplace laws along to lines of " don't come to work on days of no power".

 

 

[kgwilson]

On 08/03/2022 at 8:11 AM, Bruce Tuncks said:

 

Back in Adelaide, the electric bike was limited to 30 km/hr and you had to be turning the pedals for the electric assist to turn on. Otherwise it was not a legal bike, it was an electric motorbike and needed rego etc. 

 

 

Remember when the first cars graced the streets. They were so frightening you had to have a man walking in front carrying a red flag.

[spacesailor]

We will soon be back to those times when a ' walker ' or now a bicycle wil have to escort cars, whenever in cities.

England now have some draconian laws infavor of cyclist  ( vulnerable road user,s ).

spacesailor

[facthunter]

That's over 100 years ago.. Not many here would remember.. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

7 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

England now have some draconian laws infavor of cyclist  ( vulnerable road user,s ).

That depends on what side of the fence you sit on, I suppose. When I lived in London, I commuted to work by train. motorcycle, and bicycle (not in the same trip, I hasten to ad). For a while, my cycle route was 26 miles each way. The laws in the UK are probably not that dissimilar to the various states in Australia. You have to give way to more vulnerable users (i.e. you can't mow them down); there is ASRs (no idea what it stands for, but aty traffic lights, there is a zone that cares are not allowed to stop in at red lights, but are for cyclists. There are bus lanes that Taxis, cycles, and sometimes motorcycles are allowed in (as well as buses), but cars and trucks/commercial vehicles are not. etc. etc.

 

In some areas, the council has physically split cycle lanes from the rest of the road as to be honest, it is quite dangerous. And despite a few people in the middle of that complaining that they aren't used, they are very well frequented.

 

Yes, when the traffic is light, it slows things down for cars, but I can't recall too many times when I have travelled into London by car during the day, that these rules made one iota of difference to the journey time. Often it is motorists just venting for being stuck in traffic, and envious that others on more friendly forms of transport can continue more unabated.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree Jerry. I refused to let my kids ride bikes on the road, I insisted that they ride on the footpaths and I was prepared to go to jail if necessary. In the event, nothing at all happened  and now I am allowed to ride my electric bike on the footpaths. 

I reckon the new regulations are great and I agree that "real" pedestrians should be treated with care. I sure do.

As for the regulations which downgrade the bike, they are necessary given the fact that some bike riders are hoons and thugs. But are the real pedestrians given the right of way? It should be made clear that bike riders must avoid them or be made to pay fines and medical costs and whatever else.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon the word "privilege" shouldn't be applied to flying my Jabiru, but I sure feel that riding an electric bike legally on the footpath is a privilege.

[old man emu]

I paid $50 for 24 litres of petrol yesterday - $2.08 per litre, and see the prospect of the price continuing to rise from that point well into the future, because whoever heard of prices going down. Of that amount, Federal Treasury got 64.4 cents. But I'm not moaning about being ripped off at the pump  right now.

 

I had the thought as I drove along under sunny skies, that an electric car and solar energy sure are looking good.

[red750]

18 hours ago, spacesailor said:

We will soon be back to those times when a ' walker ' or now a bicycle wil have to escort cars, whenever in cities.

In Victoria, cars are being outlawed in favour of bicycles. Roads or lanes are being closed to cars, and parking areas removed to make way for bikes. I've seen roads reduced to one lane where cars are bumper to bumper, and only one bike using an enormous amount of the road. And they wonder why motorists get enraged. Add to that the raised tramstops which prevent use of the road when there are no trams. In the example below, (Maroondah Hwy, Mont Albert), cars in the left lane must merge into the centre on the tram tracks. If there is a tram, they must give way and wait while the trams stops.

 

[kgwilson]

Petrol is not expensive in Australia compared to almost anywhere in Europe (in the UK it is currently £1.64 & they say it will hit £2.50 shortly) & closer to home NZ it just went over $3.00 a litre. Our excise tax is 44.2c/litre. In NZ it is  77c a litre and 88c a litre in Auckland. GST of 15% is added to the price in NZ but 10% here.

 

NZ has just reduced excise tax by 25cents a litre for 3 months & halved the cost of public transport for the same period, something we should be doing here as well.

[old man emu]

As I drove home today from the Men's Shed in my petrol-powered car, I felt the energy from the Sun warming my arms. I drove past the local service statin and saw the price of 91 octane fuel at $2.04 per litre. I suddenly realised that there is an overwhelming case for getting a car powered by electricity. At least the price of a unit of electrical energy doesn't go up and down at the whim of the oil companies. Then there's the saving of not having to pay excise tax on motor fuel.

[Yenn]

Qld is offering $3000 to promote electric cars, but it cuts out at $58000, so there are very few available.

Fuel prices are very high, but it cannot be blamed on the price of crude, because it is around $100 per barrel and years ago it was $150 per barrel and petrol$1.5 litre.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that we no longer refine fuel in Australia and prices are set by overseas prices?

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, Yenn said:

Could it have anything to do with the fact that we no longer refine fuel in Australia and prices are set by overseas prices?

[spacesailor]

IF ,,

Too many electric cars, reduce the cash going to government. 

You will have ' hub-meters ' and pay a "  milage ' tax.

Then perhaps ALL road users like bicycles will contribute for their share of the ' cycle lanes ' they get for free.

spacesailor

PS   (  just watched a motorised cycle get fined for ' none compliance ' on the telly )

[red750]

[nomadpete]

Our masters must realise that the petrol tax must cease and be replaced by 'mileage tax'. And hopefully become a tax that is directed to the transport infrastructure.

 

Tax reform must be done and it would make a good election platform.

[old man emu]

A mileage tax sounds pretty equitable until you consider two factors affecting fuel consumption.

 

The first is engine efficiency.  Average rates of fuel consumption rise steadily with the number of cylinders for passenger vehicles. Vehicles with 1 to 3 cylinders had relatively low rates of fuel consumption (7.7 l/100km) in 2016, compared to 10.0 l/100km for 4 cylinder vehicles, 11.7 l/100km for 6 cylinder vehicles, and 12.9 l/100km for vehicles with 8 or more cylinders. 

 

The average rate of fuel consumption of passenger vehicles was 11.9 litres per 100 kilometres (l/100km) in 2000 and has trended downwards since then to reach 10.6 l/100km in 2016. Motorcycles are more fuel efficient, using 5.6 l/100km in 2016, down from a peak of 6.5 l/100km in 2007. 

 

The second is the environment that the vehicle is driven in - urban or rural. The stop-start nature of urban driving plays havoc with fuel consumption, no matter how gentle one is on the GO pedal. On the other hand, driving on the open roads of rural areas allows you to maintain constant RPM for hours, with a consequent reduction in fuel consumption per 100 kms.

 

So, if motorists were required to report their annual mileage via some authorised agent, then the owner of a buzz box in the city might be using more fuel per kilometre than the owner of a family-sized car in the country. But because of the distances travelled in the country for business, medical and sporting trips, the country driver would be required to pay more tax.

 

Also, in most cases, the country driver is paying more GST per litre than the urban driver. But both are paying the same amount of excise duty per litre. The Australian Taxation Office describes an excise as "a tax levied on certain types of goods produced or manufactured in Australia. These include alcohol, tobacco and petroleum and alternative fuels". However, as a result of cases such as Ha v New South Wales, excise has been defined as  "taxes on the production, manufacture, sale or distribution of goods, whether of foreign or domestic origin."