Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[Yenn]

Increased motor rpm must result in more gears and therefore extra weight.

[octave]

14 minutes ago, Yenn said:

Increased motor rpm must result in more gears and therefore extra weight.

 

According to another article the faster motor means same work so I am guessing that if any extra gearing is required it's extra weight is compensated by the motor being smaller and lighter. 

 

“One of the trends for electric vehicles is for them to have motors which rotate at higher speeds,” Chu said. “Every EV manufacturer is trying to develop high-speed motors and the reason is that the nature of the law of physics then allows you to shrink the size of that machine. And with a smaller machine, it weighs less and consumes less energy and therefore that gives the vehicle a longer range.”

[Yenn]

The same applies to internal combustion engines, more speed as they developed more power.

[nomadpete]

Although I really do like the concept of electric cars - after all, the IC reciprocating engine is a silly way to create maximum torque at zero rpm, which is what cars need - I have a problem accepting the present batteries. Where is the logic in making a high voltage, high capacity battery out of thousands of little cylindrical cells? Particularly when the battery thus created will become 'defective' when just a few of these masses of cells die?

I eagerly await the development of less messy batteries.

[red750]

This one again...

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Maximum torque @ zero revs !.

Bloody Old technology .

It,s that Old steam engine , that traveled at 100 mph in the 1930s .

Stanley Steamer & the Doble luxury car of Old .

Have a look at " Jay leno,s garage Stanley steamer " .

In NZ there was a standing bet , about a ' sreamer ' running to a fence & return,  faster the any I C powered car .

And it Can run on " jet fuel " . LoL

spacesailor

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

U are right again spacey. For many years they kept a steam loco in Alice Springs, just in case it was needed to rescue the diesel-electric from a flood. It was used at least once I think. The steam loco could handle a couple of feet of water, while the diesel-electric could only handle a few inches.

[kgwilson]

16 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Although I really do like the concept of electric cars - after all, the IC reciprocating engine is a silly way to create maximum torque at zero rpm, which is what cars need - I have a problem accepting the present batteries. Where is the logic in making a high voltage, high capacity battery out of thousands of little cylindrical cells? Particularly when the battery thus created will become 'defective' when just a few of these masses of cells die?

I eagerly await the development of less messy batteries.

These batteries are now old technology. BYDs blade batteries and others will see these disappear soon. Even Tesla is putting BYD blade batteries in its Tesla Model 3 in China even after they announced their new 4680 replacement for the 18650 which is essentially just a bigger round battery. CATL the worlds largest battery manufacturer has released its Qilin CTP (cell to pack) battery and it is being installed in the Zeeker a Chinese EV. The Qilin battery has an energy density of 255 Wh/kg providing 1000km of range for the Zeekr 009 MPV. This energy density is 13% higher than the ne Tesla 4680 battery.

Not only that, due to its liquid cooling system the battery can be charged from 10 to 80% in 10 minutes. 

 

This provides as fast if not faster refuelling than petrol stations. But GAC who most people have never heard of is even faster. Its new pouch battery can charge from 0 to 80% in 8 minutes.

Check out the video from Fully Charged below.

 

[nomadpete]

Maybe if the motors and conductors were made with superconductors, we could get away with a one cell battery, and simplify the battery manufacture? Have the scientists given up on superconductors?

[onetrack]

Here's another interesting development. There are now 21 companies on board the swappable battery consortium - thus lending weight to my argument that swappable batteries have to be the answer to charging congestion and high power demand at peak periods, from a regions power generating system/s. 

No-one promoting EV's has mentioned this recharging congestion and power demand at the wrong times of day for EV's, yet. But they are both bound to become headaches when EV's start to appear in large numbers.

 

The battery-swapping consortium is looking at electric motorcycles initially - obviously knowing full well that half the world - the poorer sections - use motorcycles for transport. So setting the standards for swappable batteries for electric motorcycles is a good move.

 

Peters joke meme about the fire brigade needing to recharge their fire truck before they attend a fire, is another area where the swappable battery arrangement is going to be needed - in fact, in a number of areas where transport demand must be immediate, the swappable battery arrangement has to be the only viable option. Even a 10 min charge time is still unacceptable for emergency equipment.

 

https://www.rideapart.com/news/610639/swappable-batteries-motorcycle-consortium-2022/

 

https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2022/08/24/swappable-batteries-for-electric-vans-and-lorries-make-sense

 

https://www.moveelectric.com/e-cars/toyota-involved-developing-swappable-commercial-ev-batteries

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by onetrack

[kgwilson]

Swappable batteries will certainly have their place in the future electrification of road transport. This is already evident with the modification of prime movers by Janus where they replace the diesel engine & gearbox with electric motors & swappable batteries. They are planning swap depots on the east Coast & the battery will power an electric truck with a B-train from Sydney to Coffs. The battery takes about 4 minutes to swap. The new battery will get the load to Brisbane. Apparently the cost of electricity to charge the batteries is less that half that of diesel.

 

Most EV owners charge their cars at home & as 89% the population live in Urban areas a similar percentage of cars will be changed at home and used most of the time in urban areas. But everyone has holidays and reasons to go on long road trips, so fast charge stations will eventually pop up everywhere. Getting the energy to them will be the main problem. I would think that local battery storage charged via wind & solar and maybe backup sources will enable capacity to be maintained.

 

When there is a holiday weekend & there is a mass exodus from the cities to beaches & holiday places, most will get there without the need to charge the batteries. Then they have overnight & most of the time they are where they have gone to, to recharge for the trip home.

[red750]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

a number of areas where transport demand must be immediate, the swappable battery arrangement has to be the only viable option.

Ambulances for example. Ramping is bad enough now.

[octave]

42 minutes ago, red750 said:

Ambulances for example. Ramping is bad enough now.

 

Not sure why ev ambulances should have any impact on ramping which is surely a function of hospital capacities.   E ambulances are already starting to come into service overseas.

 

NISSAN ZERO EMISSION AMBULANCE BECOMES PART OF ‘ZERO EMISSION TOKYO’ INITIATIVE

Electric Ambulances: Are They Really Being Manufactured and When Will They Be at a Hospital Near You?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Ramping the ambulances gives them plenty of time to recharge their batteries. It's the sort of the strategy that Australian governments do, to encourage the use of electric vehicles.

[Bruce Tuncks]

The swappable battery has to be the way forward. There is a pic somewhere of a French trailer ( a small streamlined fiberglass thing)n for electric cars on long trips.

[red750]

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

There is a pic somewhere of a French trailer ( a small streamlined fiberglass thing)

Like a teardrop camper.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks Red, but I didn't find a pic...  nor did I find a Triumph Spitfire, like I had when I was young and silly.

[Bruce Tuncks]

[octave]

 

8 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

 

Electric Triumph Stag conversion | Electrogenic

[Bruce Tuncks]

The spitfire would have been good for conversion...  it has a chassis. The stag was way more expensive. A mate of mine has one, and he puts a bag of ice over the rear-mounted fuel pump ( which sits above the fuel tank and has an access panel from the boot ) on hot days.

Those pommy cars were not designed for heat...  nor were the Gypsy aero engines. 

Once I flew behind such an engine and asked where was the cht gauge? I was surprised to find that there had never been such a thing, cos with my Jabiru, the cht gauge ruled my flying.

 

[facthunter]

Gypsy aero engines have had a very good record. The only ones that give trouble are modified by so called experts. They don't NEED head temp gauges. . Nev

[facthunter]

I'm talking mainly of the 130 HP !-c  The supercharged sixes are a different matter. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks Nev, do you remember the dragon-rapide that failed to take-off from Hermannsburg in about 1954? I always imagined that it was overloaded and taking off at a high density altitude ( this on top of the 2,400 ft actual altitude if it is the same as Bond Springs )

Ever since, I have been trying to get hold of some pictures of this sad plane . It lifted over the fence but hit the trees without catching on fire.

I think the pictures were in the Centralian Advocate , but I have had no luck looking there either.

I do remember Eddie Connellan wanting to buy Beechcraft planes but Menzies stopped him. Menzies was of course an Anglophile, but the govt paid for a mail contract which made Connellan Airways viable.

[facthunter]

Bruce I don't have any direct knowledge of the Hermannsburg Dragon (rapide) but I have flown a Blanik out of Bond Springs and knew Eddie Connellan and was THAT close to working for him at one stage. A lot of Eddies planes were commandeered by the government and he even had his own crankshaft grinder. Alice Springs gets 42 degree days at times and that's off the limits for most Planes "P" charts.. Connairs network was larger in route miles than BEA's and he operated with a gov't subsidy which was probably necessary.   Nev

[pmccarthy]

News (Adelaide, SA : 1923 - 1954), Friday 20 September 1946, page 3

---

CLOSE CALL IN DESERT AIR LANDING  - Two pilots had a lucky escape from injury when they made a forced landing in a twin-engined D.H. Dragon aircraft in scrub country near Hermannsburg Mission Station aerodrome. After becoming airborne, the plane did not have sufficient power to stay in the air. and the piiot, Mr. Cecil Parsons, D.F.C., made a skilful forced landing about half a mile from the aerodrome. Mr. Parsons and his co-pilot. Mr. Stephen Calder, both of Conellan Airways, escaped with a shakinig. The aircraft, which was extensively damaged, is repairable. Mr. E. J. Connellan said today that the aircraft was underpowered for the prevailing hot conditions. at the aerodrome altitude of over 2000 ft. The plane was not heavily laden, and the aerodrome was fairly large. He had signed an agreement the day before the accident to purchase the aircraft from the Flying Doctor Service at Alice Springs. The crash is being investigated by the Department of Civil Avia-/ tion.