Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[pmccarthy]

In looking for that article I had a happy half hour looking at photos in these two pages:

 

https://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/dh90/dh90dragonfly.html

 

https://www.goodall.com.au/australian-aviation/dh84-pt2/dh84-dragon-pt2.htm

[red750]

Errr......this topic is about electric cars. There is an aviation forum for discussing these matters.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-y-electric-suv-flaws-cons-2022-9?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=sf-bi-main

[spacesailor]

EVs

Please enlighten !.

E V         : pure electric

E  V  B    : battery

E  V  H      :  hybrid

E  V  E  C  : ?

If  an E  V  drives to the extent of its battery , then uses the  I  C motor, for a long time.

Can it,s battery recharge in the I  C mode .?

spacesailor

[red750]

5 hours ago, spacesailor said:

If  an E  V  drives to the extent of its battery , then uses the  I  C motor, for a long time.

Can it,s battery recharge in the I  C mode .?

That's the whole point of hybrids. Some don't have plug in chargers. They recharge while driving on the IC. So, for example, I could travel from say, Melbourne to Ballarat on electric, switch to IC and drive to Hamilton, recharging the battery as I go, then switch back to electric. Also, 'engine braking' in electric mode charges the battery.

[Yenn]

I think PHEV is plug in hybrid. A friend of mine has one and it will run about 30km on a normal overnight plug in charge in fairly hilly country. It starts the IC engine when the charge gets down and as far as I know, that charges the battery and provides motive power. As the hills are not all that long, the battery will power the car on level or downhill sections, while the IC engine keeps topping it up and deceleration also adds charge. As a passenger I had no idea of which motive power we were using, but it was vastly cheaper to run.

My friends vehicle is a medium size $WD and he tows an AVan with it. Has towed the van from Adelaide to near Albury in NSW so there is nothing wrong with its performance. It just seems funny to see it towing a van with no sound.

[spacesailor]

 

But

What is : E V E C : . ?

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

Not sure..

 

But here is an interesting video in terms of what else your EV can do..

 

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

V2L or Vehicle to Load is only the basic functionality and V2G (vehicle to grid) & V2H (vehicle to home) are the newest and as yet 2 to 3 years away from commercial availability. The cost to set up your house to allow V2L to power various items could be quite substantial but is probably worth it long term. I wouldn't go to the extent of installing a 10 to 15 kw household battery at a cost of 10-15k when I have one on wheels in the garage 4 to 10 times as big.

 

This gives a good explanation of the technology.

 

https://zecar.com/post/watt-is-bidirectional-charging-v2g-v2h-v2l#When will Bidirectional Charging be Available?

 

The prices this bloke is quoting are nothing like what I pay so the savings will be completely different for everyone depending on the deal they have with their electricity retailer. Wholesale electricity in Australia increased by 300% in the June quarter compared to last year. This is being passed on to consumers now. My off peak was 23.4 cents/kwh & on 1 July increased to 32.8 cents/kwh. Peak went from 37.8 cents/kwh to 52.9 cents/kwh. The deal I have with my retailer is 23% discount on these prices. He didn't mention that there is also a shoulder tarriff which is most of the day & the grid is nominally 230 volts not 240 volts. He also assumes everyone in the street is using the same supplier as him. Also the number of people who have solar panels in Australia is the highest %age in the world so I'd be charging my car during the day off the roof & only at night if I needed to top the battery up for a long trip the following day.

Edited September 22, 2022 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

Community batteries and such things will be available once the cost benefits are realised. My retailer is not taking any more customers but I doubt at this stage that going off grid is  a good aim as it only costs about 350$ annually to stay there.. Gas appears to have hit a brick wall. Nev

[onetrack]

In W.A. we have oodles of gas, and it's still cheap. We use natural gas for our hot water, and being an instantaneous HWS, we only use gas when we're showering or washing up (which we don't do lots of, because we have a dishwasher. Storage HWS's waste a huge amount of energy, as the heat from the stored hot water is constantly lost to the atmosphere.

No HWS insulation is ever any better than about 60% insulating ability, so a storage HWS costs a couple of hundred dollars more per year to run, than an instantaneous system.

 

We have an electric stove, and all electric kitchen appliances, and our power cost is a constant at 27.3c/KwH, there's no peak or off-peak power variations in W.A. 

During Winter, our power bill runs at about $130 a month. As pensioners, we get a State Energy Assistance payment of $21.66 a month to lessen the electric power bill pain.

The State Govt is rolling in money with a huge surplus, so they gave us all a $400 power bill credit in July, to help everyone a bit with the power bill.

 

By far the biggest kick in the a*** though, is the constant reduction in payment for solar energy supplied to the grid. We had a 1.5Kw system from 2011 to 2021, and we were on a 10 year guaranteed payment of 40c KwH. But that ran out in July 2021, so we installed a 6.6Kw solar system - and our solar feed-in tariff dropped to 3c KwH. Then it dropped to 2.75c in Jan 2022 and it dropped again to 2.5c KwH in July 2022.

 

So we only turn on our heavy power use machines (such as the washing machine) when the sun is well up, so we use our solar power, rather than take grid power. In Summer, the power the solar system generates is enormous, and it's still generating some power at 6:00PM, thanks to some NW-facing panels.

What surprised me, is these new panels work better when they're hotter - a higher actual operating temperature of the panel, produces more power.

[facthunter]

Yes that feed in tariff is too low to be much use to you.   Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, onetrack, I reckon you need to avoid selling to the grid. They don't pay enough.

A battery system , eg an electric  car, which you could charge with the solar and then use the battery system to avoid as much input from the mains as possible. The ultimate would be living off the grid.

I already live off the grid with respect to water and sewage, and it is heaps cheaper that paying out to the big companies.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder if you could sell to a neighbor....  probably, this would cause you to get a visitation from men with guns, but I don't really know.

[onetrack]

There's increasing talk of "neighbourhood battery" setups, whereby a large battery is set up to serve a dozen or two dozen households, and those households contribute their solar power to charge the battery.

I'm not sure how the fine details would work out, as the arrangement sounds good in principle, but it would fall apart if the dozen or two dozen neighbours became disagreeable in their relationships to each other.

After all, neighbourhood disputes over simple things such as fences, and allocation or repair/replacement costs to them, already take up a lot of time in courts and tribunals, thanks to numerous aggro neighbours.

I would rather a stand-alone independent power system, which I owned and controlled. The principle of the EV battery for storage is sound, I'd just like to see the economics of setting up the house to draw down the EV battery power reserve.

Then there's the problem of an urgent need to use the car, and the battery is nearly flat (medical or other family emergency) - or the house has to go without power, while the car takes off somewhere urgent.

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by onetrack

[facthunter]

I think we would ALL like Independence but the scale is not there. The stored power's value is it's available quickly till other changes can be made to ensure supply and would command a premium price.  Having Powerstations sitting for emergency use is not feasible. Raised weights or water are storage . Nev

[spacesailor]

' Instantaneous Hot Water '

One in the washhouse, one in the kitchen,& another in the bathroom ! .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

Keep out of hot water, Spacey.  Pump hydro and stay cool. Nev

[kgwilson]

Neighbourhood batteries are no different to a power company that has shareholders. Each household would have a shareholding in the system which is completely automatic. If existing infrastructure like poles and wires are used the battery owner would pay for its use. Each household contributor would be paid for the energy they supply just like the feed in tariff now and pay for the power used when they draw from the battery. The software will keep a tally and at the end of say a month you will either get a credit or a debit on your account. A limit would be set for both credits and debits so that you would either get payment into your bank account once the credit threshold had been reached or conversely a bill.

 

Joining or leaving the scheme would most likely be confined to houses within a certain geographical area to minimise transmission loss and infrastructure charges.

[Yenn]

I think Yakandanda in Vic runs a community power system and a friend who lives there says it is very good. No problems with power outages.

[facthunter]

 Power companies have agenda's that don't prioritise the consumer and some are overseas owned that are downright nasty. Community based things can be VERY different.  Jeff Kennet did a great deal of damage in Victoria by privatising the Network. It's not had a skerik of Paint on  any of it since the sale. (overseas). Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

How could kennet have been so dumb as to sell to the highest bidder without specifying what maintenance had to be done?

In my first job ( 1960's) as a concrete inspector, we all had the mindset that the taxpayer would be cheated if we let up on the contractor.

This was under liberal govts.

[facthunter]

People like Jeff believe Private enterprise fixes everything. IF it's a monopoly, nothing gets fixed. It's purely a cash cow. Victoria's SEC did a good job but capitalise something to balance one budget is a simple solution to opportunists.  Nev

[Old Koreelah]

A sort of car story:

Today I overtook a pair of stylish people driving a red Ferrari Mondial. 

Burbling and crackling at idle, it was far less practical for the West Bank traffic than the folding wheelchair I was pushing.

[facthunter]

That stuff is useless in traffic. What are THEY trying to prove? Nev

[spacesailor]

They are OLDer, and now have the meansto aquire, , what they wanted when YOUNGer . !.

LMFAO

 spacesailor