Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[facthunter]

To get fuel into  vehicles at a servo you need electricity. Also a flooded underground tank is not much good. .  Nev

[onetrack]

I'd be happy to go EV just to shove it up the greedy Middle Easterners and Big Oil Companies. But the economics of EV's are still a long way from stacking up.

 

Paying $80K to $100K for an EV just to save $2K a year in fuel doesn't make the slightest amount of sense to me. Hopefully, the cost of these fancy batteries will start coming down to more reasonable levels soon - but the oil companies are still laughing all the way to the bank, they never stop building new servos in my neck of the woods, thus proving the oil companies can still see fat profits in oil for a couple of decades yet.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with onetrack and I reckon they ( electric cars )  will indeed become cheaper soon. In the meantime, if I lived in a cyclone zone, I would buy a petrol generator cos the scenario outlined by red was not stupid at all. But I would ( if I owned a servo ) have lots of swap-over batteries around too. In fact, some of these would be in small trailers just for interstate travel.

An alternative to a petrol generator set would be a spare battery already charged up.

Once, I scoffed at this woman who lived up in Stirling ( 20 km and 2,000 ft higher than Adelaide) and told her that electric cars would never suit her .....  I reckon I was wrong.

[facthunter]

It's a no brainer to take one to the railway station and leave it there for about 10 Hours. Why leave a new Jeep in the sun all day. AN old Falcon ute with batteries in the back would do the job. These roadhouses in central Australia that use diesel would save a mint with solar. supplying their needs.    Nev

[spacesailor]

Those diesel powered roadhouses.  Would indeed need a super sized battery bank .

If they lost their diesel backup system .

No pumping diesel for the  ' overnight trickiest ' .

And , if those truuckies don't stop ! There goes the " Dinner " .

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

You don't need a lot of power to run fuel pumps. The amount of sunshine they get out West makes it the perfect place for solar power generation. A good sized battery pack will run the pumps, shop and roadhouse over night without too much of a problem. The diesel would then just be used as a backup. My friend who owns Palmers Island airfield near Yamba runs his house, farm sheds, and airfield from his solar system he put in over 10 years ago. It cost less than getting hooked up to the grid & that includes his backup diesel generator which incidentally he only ever has used to make sure it still works.

[facthunter]

There's airconditioning and power for VAns etc but it's easily covered by plentious solar with some storage.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ok, I am already bored of Chas' Coronation Chicken (plus it is a wet, soppy day here - rather apropo, I guess):

21 hours ago, red750 said:

To all you great thinkers.

Ponder this:

Starts off in a condascending mode, as if already conceding defeat.

 

21 hours ago, red750 said:

Imagine Brisbane with a hurricane coming toward the coast.

 

The premier orders an evacuation. All cars head South. They all need to be charged in Newcastle.

How does that work? Has anyone thought about this?

It's not hard to imagine, but don't we call the cyclones?

First question - why would all cars head south. If the hurricane (cyclone) is heading for the coast, it is coming from the east - or possibly the North East or even the south east. So why would North Brisbaners head south in traffic james to get out fo there. West Brisbaners? Would these people not head north and west respecitvely depending on the forecast path of the cyclone. Must be a huge one if, in the time available (they rarely just whip up ouot of nowhere), the only exit route is south when it is travelling from the east?

 

This seems to be more stuff made in the imagination of Hollywood film makers than any sort of reality. Traffic jams would ensue, but also, not everyone leaves at the same time, nto everyone has full fuel/charge, etc when they start, so such a hypothesis is already starting to look a little shakey (and shonky).

 

21 hours ago, red750 said:

If all cars were electric, and were caught up in a three-hour traffic jam with dead batteries, then what?

Not to mention that there is virtually no heating or air conditioning in an electric vehicle because of high battery consumption.

Erm.. If you're stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam, whether it is an ICE car or an EV, having a deadly cyclone [er, sorry, Hurricane) closing in will make things like heating (in Brisbane during cyclone season???) and air conditioning sort of first world problems. Also, these systems use a not quite as much energy compared to pushing the weight and overcoming the drag in the act of driving. According to this article, it can be up to 35% of the energy for aiir conditioning and lights: https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/auxiliary.pdf.  Therefore you have between 5 and 7 hours sitting with the air conditioning at full blast, depending on the model of car, size of battery, and assuming it is fully charged, etc. A long range Tesla will probbaly keep you going for about 10 hours.  Note, the maths is not correct; it would actually be longer, because the figures quoted is a marginal impact on range, and tbh, as the scenario is flawed, it is not worth doing the maths; give it the benefit of the doubt. I have no idea how much fuel and ICE would use running these systems, but if stuck on a road, it really isn't going to make much of a difference (see impending cyclone being more of a focus).

 

21 hours ago, red750 said:

If you get stuck on the road all night, no battery, no heating, no windshield wipers, no radio, no GPS (all these drain the batteries), all you can  do is try calling 000 to take women and children to safety.

But they cannot come to help you because all roads are blocked, and they will probably require all Emergency Vehicles and Police cars to be electric also.

Yeah, sounds plausible, but isn't If you are stuck on a slow road that is evacuating, it is likely someone will pick you up (assuming they have room). Also, not everyone will break down on a multi-lane freeway, so you may well be blocking a road, so others will get out to get your car out of the way and again, as it is an emergency situatiuon, people tend to chip in to help. Also, what's stopping an ICE car running out of fuel and stopping. And guess what, ICE Cars are more likely to break down with mechhainical failure or overheat so you have to swithc them of, anyway. It is foolish to assume everyone has a full tank of juice when they start out and will have a chance to fill her up...  especially in an emergency.

 

21 hours ago, red750 said:

Later when the roads become unblocked still no one can move! Their batteries are dead. How do you charge the backlog of cars in the traffic jam? Same problems during summer holiday departures with possible heavy traffic jams. There would be virtually no air conditioning in an electric vehicle. It would  drain the batteries too quickly.

Ughh! See above. Same can happen with ICE cars; Yes, you get get a Jerry can of fuel to ICE cars.. And who the F! cares about air conditioning if your car is broken down. It would take longer to move EVs, but if the roads are unblocked, does not not mean people can move, otherwise the roads are still blocked. You would have to get a tow for your EV. But by this time, you are dead because the cyclone has ripped through everyone who was blocked in a traffic jame, so I don't think you care about air conditioning.

21 hours ago, red750 said:

Where is this electricity going to come from? Today's grid barely handles users' needs now. Can't use nuclear. There’s only 50 years worth of Helium left in the atmosphere and we need that. Hydrogen is still too expensive  and hard to handle, Oil and coal fired is out of the question, then where?

I think this myth has already been debunked on these forums somewhere. What this has to do with a deadly cyclone in Brisbane, I have no idea. Again, back to reality rather than opinon. In 2022, EVs accounted for only 3.8% of new car sales (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/07/number-of-electric-vehicles-on-australian-roads-soars-as-demand-exceeds-supply), and of them, 80% were BEVs. It will take a long tome before there are enough EVs to impact the grid, by which time infrastructure and capacity will grow with demand; it is sort of how humanity works.  There are also developments in hydrogen production plants, and why would we rule out nuclear (except that we have such capacity for renewals, it really isn't needed).

 

21 hours ago, red750 said:

What will be done with billions of dead batteries, can’t bury them in the soil, can’t go to landfills. Can’t get them wet, lithium explodes into raging fires. So don’t call the Fire  Services if you have an accident. The cart is way ahead of the horse.

Hmm.. Also, we have debunked that myth. Yes, recycling LiION batteries is an expensive process at the moment, but a) they are recyclable (unlike fossil fuels) and b) the tech will improve over time and will become useable. We can't recycle burnt fossil fuel yet, and carbon capture does not llok promising at any scale.

21 hours ago, red750 said:

There has been very little thought whatsoever to handle any of the problems that batteries can cause.

My favourite.. and my bolding, too.

It would seem there is little thought whatsoever that went into this.

 

When was the last time Brisbane came even close to a mass evacuation for a cyclone or other event? OK, maybe the author picked a bad example. Let's pick the most susceptible city in Aus.. Darwin@ https://www.naa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/fs-90-cyclones-and-the-northern-territory.pdf

 

I don't think Darwin was mass evacuated for any of the materially damaging cyclones to hit Darwin,  of which Tracy in 1974 seems to the the last major one; since then there have been major cyclones, but they have not hit Darwin (we are talking cities). Also, Darwin's population if 150,000 people, not even close to 1m,. so, again, assuming they can flee in more than one direction, it isn't going to be too much of a problem (though the roads won't be as extensive).

 

The whole scenario is contrived and unlikely to happen (except, ironically, for the changes in climate brought about by climate change). So, this author is asserting let's not clean up our air and bring the benefits that will reap for the extremelyi unlikely scenario of a mass exodus called on a city - which has yet to happen.

 

Real smart! As I say, if you believe this BS, don't complain about the cost of living, and I would add health from all the toxins we breathe in as a result.

 

9 hours ago, red750 said:

Waiting for a charging station...

 

These traffic jams were more than commonplace in Aussie roads long before the frist EVs hit our shores... In fact, I don't see any EVs in that whole parade, so they are probably waiting for petril/diesel and not a charging station (of course, it is a traffic jam, not a queue for a servo).

 

@red750 - suggest you have a think about this sh!t before you post it (or if it is a joke, add a smiley).  😉

Edited May 6, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

16 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

 

@red750 - suggest you have a think about this sh!t before you post it (or if it is a joke, add a smiley).

 

 

Yes, Sir.

 

[nomadpete]

Give Jerry a break, Peter. He is stuch on the wrong side of the planet, watching an irritating coronation. ,,😉

[Jerry_Atrick]

The daughter has three of her friends over; I was way stressed out before the coronation chicken started..

 

And it's bloody raining! Has been, except for 2 days over the last 4 weeks!

 

 

(Oh, on another note, Tassies are getting  their own AFL team.... There goes 1/2 the Hawks' membership)

 

[facthunter]

Cyclones on the east coast of QLD will have the heaviest rain SOUTH of the LOW which usually persist after the Low has become a lower category and still maintaining the flood rain.  Nev

[willedoo]

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

Cyclones on the east coast of QLD will have the heaviest rain SOUTH of the LOW which usually persist after the Low has become a lower category and still maintaining the flood rain.  Nev

And what about Queensland's west coast? Only been there once to Weipa; great place if you like sandflies.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon the "sunshine coast" deserves an award for creative advertising ....  in actual fact, they get less sunshine than Mildura.

[red750]

Elon Musk tweeted that he spoke with Christian Horner (Red Bull) in Florida and suggested a race between F1 cars and electric cars.

 

Drew a lot of flack from the Formula E  crowd.

[facthunter]

It's got Potential though after the initial resistance is overcome. Nev

[onetrack]

I'd want to see the circuit before I got charged up.

[facthunter]

It's revolting if you're overvolting. Always good to view a circuit before you go Charging around it.  Nev

[willedoo]

[old man emu]

I live on a rural highway, and by now am accustomed to the noise of passing traffic, not that it's the Hume Hwy.  So the noise of the traffic doesn't attract my attention. If I was a kangaroo, I'd be more inclined to notice, I suppose.

 

The other day, I did pay attention to a passing truck, and then I had a thought. If that truck was an EV, it wouldn't make a sound. So kangaroos wouldn't know it was coming until it got really close and spooke the kangaroo. I recKon if EV's become more common, there's going to be a lot more dead marsupials along our rural highways. What will happen in cities?

[facthunter]

I  reckon Kangaroo think is, IF I go fast they won't hit me.. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

Last time I was hit by a roo, it was because I was going too slow! No kidding ! It hit near the rear bumper and if I had been going faster, it would have missed .

Their brain is about as big as a small walnut. Apparently it is possible to put some device on so that they can hear you better. Dunno if that is true or not.

[willedoo]

On a long country road truck engines are the main noise, but with cars, you'll hear the drone of the tyres long before any engine noise.

[onetrack]

The noise of the air rushing over a vehicle is where a lot of the vehicle noise comes from, along with tyre noise - at highway speeds. But at suburban speeds, EV's are definitely very quiet.

SWMBO was walking along the footpath of our busy arterial road recently, and the footpath is positioned right up to the kerb, so you hear vehicles coming, and they whizz past at 60 kays with a rush of displaced air only 600-700mm away from you.

 

But she said a Tesla sneaked up behind her and zipped past with just the displaced air rush, and it frightened the crap out of her, because she said she heard absolutely nothing when it was coming.

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Last time I was hit by a roo, it was because I was going too slow! No kidding ! It hit near the rear bumper and if I had been going faster, it would have missed…

When a deer sees your vehicle coming, it will turn back and run off the road.

Four legs, allowing rapid changes of direction.

 

Roos can’t seem to do that and usually head across the road to get away.

2 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Their brain is about as big as a small walnut. Apparently it is possible to put some device on so that they can hear you better. Dunno if that is true or not.

For years I rode my motorcycle big distances at speed, often at night and only once hit a roo. I reckon my small plastic “Shoo Roo” worked: