Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[facthunter]

Might have been carrying someone  who was disabled.  Quite a few disabled people would not be driving.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Or it's a fraud one . For. Easy parking ! .

spacesailor

[Jerry_Atrick]

We will never know

[facthunter]

You're supposed to leave the CARD on the dash. IF this is the worst that's happening you're having a good run.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Back to ' topic ' .

How much $ does it cost to ' recharge a 80 kW Tesla 3 battery at 65 cents per kwh  ? .

The neighbours 3 ' charge ' run to Brisbane , and return ! . He just " put it on the card  " .

spacesailor

 

 

 

[onetrack]

In more EV developments, the Americans, intent on keeping everything "in-house", and ensuring they are not reliant on China for anything in the future, have discovered the world largest lithium deposit right in their own backyard. What's more, they're deadset intent on mining it, despite massive opposition from the local Indians (the Paiute) and the Greenies.

 

This massive lithium deposit is located in a spot called the McDermitt Caldera, on the Oregon/Nevada border. It's an ancient volcanic crater and it's full of lithium-bearing clays.

The problem is, they can't get a proper handle on just how the lithium came to be there. There are conflicting geological theories on how it was formed, and if they can finally get the geology worked out, they might be able to find much higher grade lithium clays than the one they have currently identified.

 

Nonetheless, despite the geological doubts and the opposition to mining, GM have agreed to acquire their lithium needs from the McDermitt Caldera by 2026.

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/02/16/lithium-oregon-mcdermitt-caldera-deposit-nevada/

https://www.popsci.com/environment/lithium-mining-mcdermitt-caldera/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23849619/lithium-ev-battery-thacker-pass-mine-mcdermitt-caldera

 

[octave]

14 hours ago, spacesailor said:

How much $ does it cost to ' recharge a 80 kW Tesla 3 battery at 65 cents per kwh  ? .

 

14 hours ago, spacesailor said:

The neighbours 3 ' charge ' run to Brisbane , and return ! . He just " put it on the card  " .

 

 

The larger Tesla battery is 82.   It would be when charging from empty 82x0.65 = $53.30. The average efficiency of a Tesla charger is 94%  Tesla charging stations charge between $0.43 and $0.69  A Tesla Model 3 Long range is supposed to use 13.1KWh per 100km.  A return trip from Sydney to Brisbane say 1800km should cost around about $170 at a charging price of $0.69.

 

Of course, it could be less than this.  Your initial charge would be from home.  There are good deals for off-peak charging such as this one. An energy plan designed specifically for Electric Vehicle owners

 

• 6c/kWh super off-peak discount applied to your overnight market rates between 12am - 6am local time.

 

 

[facthunter]

AND it's going to get BETTER not worse. How simple to service an electric car.   Nev

[onetrack]

Just as long as you have an electronics technician on call. Tesla still have vehicle service vans.

[red750]

[facthunter]

You don't have to do that very often.  Nev

[onetrack]

I've seen higher quotes to replace blown IC engines. $28,000 quoted to supply a new Jeep engine.

[octave]

Tesla battery and drive Warranty

 

Model 3 8 years or 160 000km

Model 3 Long Range 8 years or 192 000km

Model S 8 years or 240 000km

Model X 8 years or 240 000km

 

https://www.tesla.com/en_au/support/vehicle-warranty

[octave]

I often get anti-EV memes and cartoons on my FB feed.  This one was posted by a FB friend and ex-work colleague.  He was never the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

There are so many things wrong with this. 

 

Firstly there are very few areas where power is exclusively sourced from coal power generators.  On average, around 34%  (in Vic) of power comes from renewables. This is averaged over time and on windy or sunny days 100% of power can be from renewable sources.   There are geographical differences. If you live in Tasmania 100% is from renewable sources. Apart from that in my case, I pay slightly extra to ensure my supplier buys the amount I use from renewable sources.

 

Further to this I only charge my bike battery during the day from my own solar panels. 

 

The message of the cartoon seems to be that people who ride electric bikes or own EV cars are naive and don't understand where their electricity comes from but the cartoon suggests to me that the cartoonist and posters don't actually understand different sources of power in our grid.

 

Apart from all of that, there seems to be an assumption that every electric bike rider only rides an electric bike for environmental reasons.  You can be a total climate change denialist and still ride an electric bike because it is a good form of exercise or it is the most appropriate method of transport in a given situation or it is economical or perhaps just good fun. 

 

I can only think that these cartoons are drawn by people who are uncomfortable with new technology. 

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

Now ! .

Here's a thing .

We All know ' photovoltaic cells are manufactured. 

BUT

I HAVEN'T been able to source the vast amounts of power to produce that : .

" Photovoltaic Boule "  .

that has to be ' sliced '  for our " crystalline cell.

I Have watched a video , that said it was only feasible by " Nuclear powered generation " .

Any-one have more information on the ' manufacturing process ' .

spacesailor

 

 

 

[octave]

Before it’s used in a solar panel, silicon dioxide must be turned into pure “metallurgical grade silicon” (MGS). This process uses a lot of energy: producing 1 kilogram of metallurgical grade silicon requires 14-16 kWh of power, which is roughly equivalent to using your home oven for seven hours. Still, over their lifetimes, solar panels emit 25 times less carbon dioxide equivalent per kilowatt hour than coal-powered

electricity. 

MYTH #1: Solar panels require more energy to manufacture than they produce in their lifetime.

FACT: A study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory conclusively demonstrates that the manufacturing energy cost versus the energy production payback for solar modules is generally less than 4 years.

A study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory conclusively demonstrates that energy payback for photovoltaics (PV) is generally less than 4 years. You may download a free copy of the study here. It states:

“Reaping the environmental benefits of solar energy requires spending energy to make the PV system. But as this graphic shows, the investment is small. Assuming 30-year system life, PV-systems will provide a net gain of 26 to 29 years of pollution-free and greenhouse-gas-free electrical generation … So, for an investment of from 1 to 4 years worth of their energy output, PV systems can provide as much as 30 years or more of clean energy.”

 

 

 When people float the suggestion that solar power is silly because it uses more energy to make (which is BS) they never seem to want to make a direct comparison with a power station, coal mining, coal transport, etc.

 

Nuclear power is not required to manufacture solar panels. If this were true then no panels would be made in Australia https://renewableenergyaus.com/solar-panels-made-in-australia/

 

Every piece of technology has an energy cost and an environmental footprint. The question is how do solar panels compare with digging up coal and burning it?

 

 

[onetrack]

AFAIC, anything we can do to get away the ever-greedy grasp of the rapacious OPEC mob, can only be a good thing. I look forward to our energy sources coming from multiple choices.

 

The fact that they're still building new fossil fuel servos by the dozen every week, indicates to me it's one of the most profitable forms of investment you can make.

Around my neck of the woods, within about 10kms of home, I reckon I've seen at least 20 brand new servos installed in the last 5 years.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-19/powerful-cartel-still-controlling-the-world-oil-petrol-prices/102871402

[spenaroo]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

my old mans amarok has cost him 10k in the last two services (done approx 200k from memory).
he had to go the big powerful V6....

my older 2 liter turbo amarok is about to have its second major service.

and has just had the first mechanical failure with blown turbo seals (@170ks, will get repaired at the 180k service when everything is out of the way doing belts)

[spacesailor]

MSquared Solar . Girraween Sydney .

Home made panels.  But do they make the " Crystalline Cells " .

I ask. as I live near by, & I have no knowledge of a Furness that could grow a .

" Photovoltaic Boule " .

I have been a ' furnaceman ' long ago in my younger days . The fact is no-one. Here could afford that Huge electrical bill .  even in UK'  magnesium smelting ' is electrical  ,  with it's huge cost .

( growing a " Crystalline Boule " is far more power hungry than mere magnesium . )

spacesailor

 

 

[nomadpete]

9 hours ago, red750 said:

It just cost me $7000 to replace my car's automatic transmission.

There will be some big spend items on EV's too. But remember many EV's have up to eight years warranty on their battery. My auto was out of warranty.  So it will be impossible to build the long term running cost argument  until there is a long term use of EV'S to compile the stats. I will put my money  on EV's in the long term.

Edited September 20, 2023 by nomadpete

[facthunter]

There's certainly a  lot of fallacious arguments against electric cars. Some hybrids are not very viable . It must be Plug in charging if it's fair dinkum. I hope we can convert some vans and utes. There was more activity 5 years ago than now.  Nev

[nomadpete]

1 minute ago, facthunter said:

There's certainly a  lot of fallacious arguments against electric cars. Some hybrids are not very viable . It must be Plug in charging if it's fair dinkum. I hope we can convert some vans and utes. There was more activity 5 years ago than now.  Nev

True, Nev.

 

Vested interests do fight dirty.

 

There was (I think) a couple of  Aussie  EV conversion kits available  but they seem to have dropped off the radar.

[pmccarthy]

We had a nearby business converting cheap small cars into battery electric about ten years ago. He did a couple of hundred then disappeared.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I agree with nomad, there is more complexity in a cooling system than there is in an EV motor and transmission. They can and will get a lot cheaper soon. I reckon I have bought my last IC car. With model planes, electric has taken over without any subsidies at all, electric  is so much cheaper and cleaner than IC stuff. And just look at drones....

[onetrack]

The bottom line is, industry rarely changes basic design to a radical new power source unless it is forced to - either by legislation, or by major competition from an outsider.

We only got better safety features in cars and better fuel economy, because of constant tightening Govt legislation.

We'd still be driving overweight gas-guzzlers with no safety features, if the manufacturers were left to their own self-interest aims.